Twitchy action menu

[dmarkwick 261]

The contextual action menu needs a rethink IMO, in a lot of situations I find myself chasing action commands up and down the screen until I eventually accidentally select the wrong command. This often means that instead of commanding my squad to halt, I instead send them romping off into direct enemy fire. This is caused by the action menu choices constantly changing depending on what object or person happens to cross the center of my view.

Can there be instead an option to turn contextual commands off, allowing me to more quickly get to the command I actually want, even if that does mean an extra key press or two?

Edited September 5, 2010 by DMarkwick

[stk2008 14]

NM I was thinking of some thing else.

I mean the twitchy courser I get all the time on main selection screen etc.

[Navvar 10]

Perhaps a ''wheel command'' feature like in the Battlefield series would be better for quick-commands.

[Gunter Severloh 4070]

''wheel command'' feature like in the Battlefield series would be better for quick-commands.

I like this idea, more then what we got now, this idea also is in Rainbow 6 Ravenshield,

It wasn't hard to use plus it was right in front of you.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I've tried suggesting concepts of 16 slot radials (2x8 slot circles in big format) and 16 slot quad menus (4x4 menus in textual format). Radials would work great in some cases (AI commanding, interaction system), but quad menus would seem better in others (gun management).

But everyone seems happy with what it is; complex commands limited to 10 number key system (capacity already exceeded, can't put in anything new), lack of visual feedback of what you're about to do, inflexible, and action command issues due to system being twitchy or mouse input being inaccurate.

Input system tends to get me killed. And that annoys me. I'm too old to memorize/change all the keys, and the current complex commanding system seems to be one of the biggest complains from those new to the game. Maybe they'll learn, being young and all. But I'm vet from OFP times, and I'm still having issues.

I've stresses time and time again that nothing would get changed, only a new system added as an alternative. These things are tough to "get right", and it would have to be worked on over time. But I experienced a thorough reluctance to even try to "think new", as the system works for them. So with that, I gave up.

Civilization 5 will be released this month. Maybe it's time to change modding platform. Being turn based, at least I have all the time in the world :D

[SteveJA 12]

"3 Injured"

2 - 6(action)

Open Door

Open Door

Heal man

Eject

"2 is down!"

FFS

Edited September 8, 2010 by SteveJA360

[xxbbcc 6]

I'm very much against any kind of visual input systems because they tend to be awkward - selecting something with the mouse requires dedicated attention and precise movement, while I may want to target something at the same time.

The current context-sensitive, mouse-driven action menu is near useless - I hate the menu that comes up automatically when I select a squad member. I really miss the menu of ArmA 1 - selecting a member brought up the simple number menu to show what options are available. Even that kept changing (under 6 (action)), but at least the menu identified choices.

I realize it's not ideal but keypresses are still the most reliable ways of entering input. Somehow this is one area the BIS managed to consistently get worse over several releases. :(

[50.cal 10]

"3 Injured"

2 - 6(action)

Open Door

Open Door

Heal man

Eject

"2 is down!"

FFS

lol good point! Why have we those "opend door" in action menu already?

Edited September 9, 2010 by 50.cal

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I realize it's not ideal but keypresses are still the most reliable ways of entering input.

It's not for all. I do use what I remember, but they are few. The rest is a mess of going back and forth through menus scanning for the right item. How can I be "aiming at something" when I have to read that list up and down several times? That is only possible for the key codes you actually have memorized. When it takes me 5-15 seconds to "find" the right command, it's not efficient.

The quick command works pretty much ok. I would have liked the odd, even, and color codes though for quick selection while the menu is up though. Also "lines" in the 3D view (same as in "go to house position") that is drawn from the selected guy(s) to the "target". The "interaction" could have been used better too, for like "go to crate and gear up" with multiple units selected, and that 3D line.

The current context-sensitive, mouse-driven action menu is near useless - I hate the menu that comes up automatically when I select a squad member. I really miss the menu of ArmA 1 - selecting a member brought up the simple number menu to show what options are available.

Maybe it should have been user configurable? But even for me with pretty good experience, I find the complex command system (not simple) highly ineffective, especially under pressure. And new players find it intimidating. The new quick command is much faster to use, although I sometimes I do miss some functions.

Did you try the complex command tutorial? It's a joke. Not only are some of the entries plain wrong, but it only describes the outer menu, none of the inner commands are described at all. So for the new guy - what's the difference between the fire command and the open fire command? Even the pros here get it mixed up from what I've seen every time the question comes up :p What are engage and disengage, compared to attack in the quick commands?

The idea behind the popup menus is to provide a graphical interface to those who prefer that (me, and possibly most new players). Yes you can't aim with it, but logical placement, grouping, color codes, and descriptive graphics (for radial menus) makes the item you're looking for quicker to find. Radials are bound to keys (same as 1-9 now), but keys you can choose yourself that makes the most sense to you, should be user configurable (today it's locked in stone). Big obstacle now is you can't put whatever key you want, i.e. ctrl+g for a "gear and interaction radial" also brings up the gear menu, or ctrl+f for a "formations radial" also changes fire mode. Ctrl+f is easy to remember, for formations, 8 is not. And then you'll actually see the formations graphically. Echelon left and right for a new player?

The 4x4 quad menu was a special case to (not replace) add different system to weapon management than the f-cycle function. It doesn't close as you select an item, but is shown as long as you hold the number key for whatever weapon. Means you can load different ammo, attach gizmos (I wish - dreaming here), basically configure your whole weapon (any weapon, including CSW and artillery pieces and mounted vehicle weapons) while the menu is kept up.

[TRexian 0]

I've seen the previews of the Project Reality "commo rose" and it looks like an excellent interface for things like this. I guess it is a rather common design in "modern" games?

[CarlGustaffa 4]

That's probably good enough for a "game mode", but it wouldn't be able to support all the commands in the game obviously. You'd either get 100 items around in the rose, or have to rely on popups/expansions. Both are highly ineffective. Just try OFP DR and see how bad it becomes.

[TRexian 0]

It seems like having 2 or 3 'roses' - accessed by different keys - would work. Or having 2 - 3 layers would also.

I think we all agree with the fundamental proposition that the interface needs some updating. :)

[nkenny 1057]

nm, I'm a muppet.

to OP. yes please give us a better action menu interaction.

-k

Edited September 10, 2010 by NkEnNy

[NeoHazard 10]

agreed with OP. I've been hitting wrong actions over and over because something like a distant vehicle or an AI will cross my cursor as i'm going to select something and my choice is automatically switched to whatever random command.

here's a thought. the new action options that pop up should at least add themselves at the bottom of the menu with a 5 or 10 second delay before they disappear so that as your cursor crosses a multitude of physical options for mounts or attacks, a list forms at the bottom that you could choose from. and if your currently selected option is "stop" or something, it stays at "stop"

I mean, its great and all to use number keys, but sometimes you hit the wrong key and have to go back and fiddle anyway. might as well fix what we're talking about here.

[twirly 11]

Input system tends to get me killed. And that annoys me. I'm too old to memorize/change all the keys, and the current complex commanding system seems to be one of the biggest complains from those new to the game. Maybe they'll learn, being young and all. But I'm vet from OFP times, and I'm still having issues. :D

I hear you and agree big time.....been with this series since OFP and hate the clumsiness of the input system. After ten years I'm still having problems. LOL!!

I'm 53! ...you older than me?

[polar bear 10]

Here is the solution which leaves the game pretty much as it is, but fixes the UI bug, thank Carl G for it as he suggested something mostly like it on the thread where I was asking for hot keys:

Actions do not disappear from the action list when you are viewing it, instead they simply grey out indicating that they are not currently selectable. New actions added to the list while you are viewing are added to the bottom of the list. If you close the action list and re-open it the greyed out actions will be gone.

Thus you have a stable action list while you are looking at it, where nothing moves around. Even better if you have an action flickering in and out you can hover over its position while it's gray waiting for it to ungray.

That more or less leaves the game pretty much the way it is today but eliminates the problem of hitting the wrong action.

Add on to that, I'd like to be able to press a key 1-9 to select the corresponding action in that list so you can do it with the keyboard rather than rolling the mouse but just implementing the above would fix the twitchy action problem.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Polar Bear

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Actions do not disappear from the action list when you are viewing it, instead they simply grey out indicating that they are not currently selectable.

They should be selectable (selected state, mouse wheel will scroll selection state onto it), but it can't be activated while greyed out. So when an action becomes greyed out, it remains selected, but you can't actually activate it. If it wasn't selectable or deselected itself, we would still have a twitchy action menu.

While action menu is open, the action remains there.

[polar bear 10]

They should be selectable (selected state, mouse wheel will scroll selection state onto it), but it can't be activated while greyed out.

Right. That's what I meant, just not what I said! :)

Thanks for clearing up my fuzzy explanation.