Anybody else find the M6 Linebacker useless?

[gossamersolid 155]

For AI use anyways,

I place an Mi-24 and the M6 decides it'd be better to use the M242 against it. Same with an SU-25. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the stinger would be of more use in this situation.

Are there any mods that fix the M6's behaviour so it prefers the AA missile for Air targets?

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

Apart from going into the gunner seat and use up all the 20mm ammo?

Most AA cars and armor seems pretty useless tbh because the target you are shooting at can most of the times lock on to you before you see them. Taken into account that most things flying are players and that the ai you control has some sort of wait time before engaging. It makes it almost impossible to shoot stuff down.

A tactic I use some times is to put the armor unit in a safe and good AA position and dismount all the ai. Once they spot something I tell the gunner to mount and target the air unit. While crewed units are red on the radar, uncrewed are gray. Some times air units think there just empty cars, civis etc and ignore them not to waste ammo while also having a harder time locking on to them unless they have visual.

Stinger pods are the best. If you have some sort of armor that can build them. Setting a ai in once of those and engage at will would probably be the best.

[TinManNFO 10]

Hmmm, well if you were trying to do this in a mission in the editor you could try to see what happens if you remove the cannon ammo, but if this were in mulitplayer or something where that was out of your control, I'm not sure how you'd tell him to do that unless you were the vehicle commander or such.

[wolfbite 8]

If its close in It makes sense to use the canons no? I thought that was the point of em. And the missiles should be for bvr. Although I must say aircraft counter measures are super effective..... Shame we dont have any radar guided missiles.... well they all act like IR's and can be distracted by flares..

[maddogx 13]

If its close in It makes sense to use the canons no? I thought that was the point of em. And the missiles should be for bvr. Although I must say aircraft counter measures are super effective..... Shame we dont have any radar guided missiles.... well they all act like IR's and can be distracted by flares..

True. It would be good if the game also simulated radar guided missiles, and chaff as a counter measure. :)

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I thought we had chaffs already. At least I think they look like chaffs.

[l mandrake 9]

IR missiles aren't for BVR... I agree with the OP, Linebacker should be using its AA missiles on anything flying and its cannon as back-up or to defend itself against ground attack.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

A full crew M6 or an Avenger will use its cannon up to a certain range, AI commander will tell the gunner to switch to stingers once you leave that range. Although, the Avengers will sometimes fire stingers on sight.

Pro tip of the day: Avengers are more effective. :cc:

P.S. Don't get started on Chaff being too effective. Nobody played vanilla Arma 2 once ACE 2 came out. Tunguska was a joke and their crews were billionaires.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Iroquois Pliskin

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

Nobody played vanilla Arma 2 once ACE 2 came out.

Might want to re-evaluate that statement mate as it's definitely incorrect.

As for the Blufor AA, it's all pathetic....absolutely pathetic. I laugh at at both stingers and avenger pods with impunity when using Opfor assets as they have a pissy 4km range and even then the missile moves slowly and now with countermeasures it's even easier to avoid. In fact the only decent AA any of the Blufor team has is the CDF ZSU-23's and 23-4's.

BluFor's air superiority is almost 100% reliant upon their aircraft and even these can't do much with none of the air craft carrying more than 2 Aim-9 missiles.

[wolfbite 8]

I said the missiles are for BVR not The heatseekers are for bvr...... And if the linebacker is using stingers or whatever.. they are still for beyond canon range..... Since I'm guessing the canon has about 1km effective range..... But yeah as I said the spoofing needs toning down flares are ludicrously effective....

Bah I cannay find the bugtracker but will post a ticket about countermeasure... and maybe about adding a difference between I.R and Active seeker missile.....

Edited September 2, 2010 by wolfbite

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Chaff is already in, but I'm not sure if any missiles are set to use it as a CM. There should be a config setting that defines what CM are effective against any particular missile class, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Might want to re-evaluate that statement mate as it's definitely incorrect.

Re-evaluated and corrected:

Nobody played vanilla Warfare/Coop when ACE 2 came out.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

Nobody played vanilla Warfare/Coop when ACE 2 came out.

orly? Then why did most servers here down under neglect ACE and still manage to pull max numbers every night of the week?

I think there is some very basic modelling of IR and Radar guided weapons in the game because when a shilka locks onto you with it's radar you receive a warning but when a ZSU-23 Ural or static does there's no lock. Also on harder difficulties I'm pretty sure hand held AA doesn't show up on the RWR when being fired upon.

[wolfbite 8]

Stinger launchers definately show up when they fire on you. Are you guys sure there's Radar seeker and chaff programmed in? I thought they were all set as I.R at least it looks like it... The only chaff I've seen is on gnats ships..... And if shilka was locked you should get a rwr warning because theyre radar guided....

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Chaffs as particles only most likely. Or consider any targeting a combination or IR and Radar targeting. Vehicles become "hot" and lockable not because of their IR signature, but because there are units inside the vehicle. Similarly, I can't lock Javelin onto proper hot IR sources (like men).

[Decerto 10]

Are things like the RWR flashing for IR missiles subject to the skill level? I don't fly much in this game so I don't know if having the game on the easy levels would warn you of any AA threat against you.

[wolfbite 8]

Hey guys I've made a ticket on Dev Heaven please support http://dev-heaven.net/issues/13472

[whisper 0]

Just for information : There are devices today that detect heat signatures of missile launches, so TWS systems today do not warn only on radar-based missiles, but on IR missiles too. It's not too much I think to see warning on IR launches.

Now, having proper RWR (ie, Radar detectors which will indicate radar sources, no matter if they have fired yet or not) + TWS indicating Threats of any type detectable (Radar based, IR based) would certainly be a plus.

As well as toning down countermeasure effectiveness would do well. like for example make the flare / chaff ineffective if it's live for too short (ie, making them less likely to decoy close missile launches)

Edited September 3, 2010 by whisper

[wolfbite 8]

Interesting. Would that detection only within the radar's detection cone though? Because I think most aircraft dont have rear facing radar do they? Or is it not linked to the main radar and just a seperate system?..... Its allways good to have a good discussion in threads like this....(Its very boring at work today)

[NoRailgunner 0]

Here you get a overview of Infrared Countermeasures Systems: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/systems/ircm.htm

[whisper 0]

RWR and TWS are both separated from the main designation system

RWR is a 360° passive detecting antenna, if I remember well (my combat flight sim days are far away :) )

TWS is a system gathering all type of threats from different systems, including RWR.

The representation of all this in the cockpit differs from aircrafts to aircrafts.

RWR in US aircrafts will give you bearing, signal force and type (air, ground) of radar sources on a "top down, 360°, radar like" representation, along with an exact radar type (SAM type XXX, long range radar type YYY, etc...) and their "state" (scanning, tracking, locked, launched) through specific noises a pilot learns and knows by heart

TWS is usually big BEEP BEEP and threat representation on one of the main display (MFD) of the cockpit, if I'm not mistaken.

Russian equivalent would be the Berzoya, a very rusty looking display (ofc, there is way more avionics behind :) ) giving bearing, type and state of threat.

I don't know much of IR detecting countermeasures, I've only been told they do exist now, and perhaps in more numbers that I would have thought.

Thing is, in the config files of A2/OA, there's no differentation made between IR seeking missiles and radar seeking ones.

So it may make sense, in the ArmAVerse, to simply state all aircrafts are equipped with systems detecting both threat types, and look at what can be done to correct the over-effectiveness of the countermeasures

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Hey guys I've made a ticket on Dev Heaven please support http://dev-heaven.net/issues/13472

This is a non-issue. I put this case into: learn to play. I've yet to see some monkey with a stinger take down a fighter/bomber jet flying at 2 km ALT with a single shot.

You're not playing COD 4.

Transversal Velocity - google it and apply to your daily use, instead of being ignorant.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Iroquois Pliskin

[whisper 0]

Who was talking about 2km flying?

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Who was talking about 2km flying?

Who was talking about not being able to take out a Su-25, or an A10 with a stinger? I assumed he had trouble with experience pilots in Warfare that fly above 1300 m ceiling.

Now, if you have trouble with jets at altitudes of <700, learn to play.

[wolfbite 8]

Erm I dont own CoD so stop acting like a smartass.

I generally fly jets in arma.

I'm saying that Countermeasures are too effective. "The lethality and proliferation of IR surface-to-air missiles (SAMS) was demonstrated during the Desert Storm conflict. Approximately 80% of U.S. fixed-wing aircraft losses in Desert Storm were from ground based Iraqi defensive systems using IR SAMS"

Flares dont guarantee immunity to all missiles. And I wasnt forcing you to vote toughguy if you dont like it dont vote.