ECHO fire director

[Evil_Echo 11]

Das Attorney:

Always loved that avatar of yours, Oddball from "Kelly's Heroes", yes?

Adding exclusion zones are already in the todo queue. The fire director already derates missions that are too close to known friendly units, neutrals could be in trouble.

Although I'd prefer to use locations instead of markers. You get all the geometry of markers/triggers and none of the clutter on the map, plus a very nice ability to do a "_unit in _this_location" test. It's easy to make new locations from marker data via script if needed. The maps are chock-full of locations already, saving much effort if you just want to specify a town or neighborhood.

Have used locations in a training mission for my clan that involved a full nuclear exchange. There I needed a quick way to get a list of targets and assign different yields and burst modes ( ground burst only for the capital and major cities, air burst for smaller areas to reduce fallout hazards ). Locations proved to be a fast method and quite flexible.

gunterlund21:

The FD looks for clusters of units grouped near each other. Units that don't meet the criteria of being in any cluster are called outliers and concidered to be a cluster of one with lower mission priority. Each cluster has a radius that includes the uncertainty of position of each member factored in. That radius is used to calculate the number of mils used for the fire mission and the number of shells to cover that zone - biased by how hardened the target is. So, if the observer has a good notion of all the positions in a cluster, you can end up with fairly small kill zones.

I do have a minimum mil size in the code, based on data for the real-life CEP numbers of that weapon. I guess you'd like to be able to set a larger minimum on a per-battery basis? If so, sounds reasonable.

[gnarly_rider 0]

The updated bundle is out. Has the hoped-for scripted versions.

Official announcement on Armaholic

Would be worth keeping your first post updated with datestamps of updates, so thread followers can easily check for latest update, rather than having to troll through thread to see if anything has changed. Nice work BTW!

[gunterlund21 10]

Also if I have three batteries and 1 spotter is there a determination of which battery engages?

[CaptainBravo 0]

Sounds like a great mod. I am having a bit of "technical diffuculties" installing. When INstall liek any other mod I get error msg after booting:

No entry 'bin/config.bin/cfgmods/echo action.

Is there anything else that should be done other than the @echo mod folder?

[Evil_Echo 11]

Would be worth keeping your first post updated with datestamps of updates, so thread followers can easily check for latest update, rather than having to troll through thread to see if anything has changed. Nice work BTW!

Thank you and noted. I never thought this thread would have this much traffic. :)

Also if I have three batteries and 1 spotter is there a determination of which battery engages?

Not something you can do in your head easily. The dynamics are very fluid.

During the evaluation phase each battery looks at each target cluster and checks things like shell count vs number of available guns, and how well the target matches the sweet spot of midway between min and max range. The result is a grade for the potential mission.

During firing phase a battery looks at the best mission in it's list, cross-checking that no other battery has already taken that one. Right now the batteries check in the same order you list them in the call to the FSM.

If all your batteries are the same type and count - the one closest to %50 range is most likely rate the mission highest and therefore fire on that particular target. Note well, it's just probability - I would not stake the mission outcome on a specific battery targeting a location. There are just too many enviromental conditions to be absolutely certain of who shoots what when.

If need better control over which battery oversees which zone, run more than one copy of the FSM and assign just the spotter(s) in that zone to that particular battery. Something like

Abattery gets OB1, OB2

Bbattery gets OB3

CBattery, DBattery get OB4, OB5, OB6

Zbattery get all spotters

If your mission has a lot of targets scattered widely about this also may reduce the time used evaluating targets since the batteries will be looking a shorter observation lists.

Sounds like a great mod. I am having a bit of "technical diffuculties" installing. When INstall liek any other mod I get error msg after booting:

No entry 'bin/config.bin/cfgmods/echo action.

Is there anything else that should be done other than the @echo mod folder?

Usually a message like that is due to starting a mission without having run the game with the addons the mission requires. Check that @ECHO is on your list of mods.

[gunterlund21 10]

If need better control over which battery oversees which zone, run more than one copy of the FSM and assign just the spotter(s) in that zone to that particular battery. Something like

Abattery gets OB1, OB2

Bbattery gets OB3

CBattery, DBattery get OB4, OB5, OB6

Zbattery get all spotters

If your mission has a lot of targets scattered widely about this also may reduce the time used evaluating targets since the batteries will be looking a shorter observation lists.

Ok so right now in my init I have

_rus_batteries = [A_Battery,C_Battery,D_Battery];

_rus_spotters = [OB1,OB2,OB3,OB4];

waituntil { not isnil "bis_fnc_init"};

waitUntil { not isNil "BIS_ARTY_LOADED"};

FD_US = [_rus_spotters, _rus_batteries, 60, 20, 0] execFSM ECHO_FD_FSMDIR+"FireDirector.fsm";

does this mean all 4 spotters get access to all 3 batteries? Can I run this same code but narrow it so only OB1 gets A_Battery, then run again so OB2 gets B_Battery?

Like this

_rus_batteries1 = [A_Battery];

_rus_spotters1 = [OB1];

waituntil { not isnil "bis_fnc_init"};

waitUntil { not isNil "BIS_ARTY_LOADED"};

FD_US = [_rus_spotters1, _rus_batteries1, 60, 20, 0] execFSM ECHO_FD_FSMDIR+"FireDirector.fsm";

_rus_batteries2 = [C_Battery];

_rus_spotters2 = [OB2,OB3];

waituntil { not isnil "bis_fnc_init"};

waitUntil { not isNil "BIS_ARTY_LOADED"};

FD_US = [_rus_spotters2, _rus_batteries2, 60, 20, 0] execFSM ECHO_FD_FSMDIR+"FireDirector.fsm";

[CaptainBravo 0]

Usually a message like that is due to starting a mission without having run the game with the addons the mission requires. Check that @ECHO is on your list of mods.

I have double checked that @echo is loaded along with other mods. So I am confused as to why I am getting that error. :confused:

The error happens as soon as arma2 loads up screen. Beofre hitting any missions.

I am using ACE would that be a cause?

Edited September 15, 2010 by CaptainBravo

[Evil_Echo 11]

gunterlund21:

You got the idea! Use a different handle variable for the 2nd execFSM call. That way you can monitor and shutdown both independantly. You don't need the duplicate waitUntils - that is prologue.

// Define batteries and spotter groups
_rus_batteries1 = [A_Battery];
_rus_spotters1 = [OB1];
_rus_batteries2 = [C_Battery];
_rus_spotters2 = [OB2,OB3];

// Wait for everything to warm up....
waituntil { not isNil "bis_fnc_init"};
waitUntil { not isNil "BIS_ARTY_LOADED"};

// Launch two fire directors, different watch times, etc.
FD_RU1 = [_rus_spotters1, _rus_batteries1, 65, 20, 0] execFSM ECHO_FD_FSMDIR+"FireDirector.fsm";
FD_RU2 = [_rus_spotters2, _rus_batteries2, 70, 30, 0] execFSM ECHO_FD_FSMDIR+"FireDirector.fsm";

CaptainBravo:

Definitely try it without ACE. Recent reports indicated that the ACE artillery did not play well with my code, which uses the standard BIS artillery system. If that does not help, strip your mod list all the way down to just CBA and ECHO to verify that works, then add the others back one at a time.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Evil_Echo

[snoops_213 75]

Great addon, any chance that the arty units could use the BIS arty rounds on their own? Smoke and copperhead would be very hard but the other rounds wouldn't be to hard would they? Any way no problem if you cant. I haven't tried against moving targets but does the arty lead moving targets yet or does the ammo get wasted still? This plus the AI using SADARM rounds would make moving to the front in your armored vehicle a bit scary :) And what about counter battery fires? any chance well see this at some point? I know it's a bit unfair atm as most of the arty is stationary but still would be nice since you never know whats around the corner. Any way great job and keep up the good work.

[Evil_Echo 11]

If I understand correctly, you are asking if FD could be extended to support other types of ammunition besides HE. That could be accomplished either by extending the current FSM or writing another dedicated to support missions. I already have hooks in place in the current version, we'll have to see how much can be done with that.

Currently, moving targets are not adjusted for. The suggestion of leading a target has already been asked, I have a couple ideas in that area. One being a technique to evaluate the collective movement of a cluster and try to predict the impact point given the time of flight.

[gunterlund21 10]

I think what snoop is asking is if the ai is smart enough to figure out what type of shell to use.

[gnarly_rider 0]

Echo, I'm sure there was a request in here for spotters with binocs: if you are interested in how to do this (I'm presuming you may not have tried this yet, but haven't the patience to dig through this thread and confirm), 00dc15's work with IED trigger man scripting includes putting the trigger man with binocs:

Once in position he will observe the IED area with binoculars & wait for an enemy to approach, when they are within 30m of the IED it will check if he knows about them..

Regards

James

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1750429&postcount=28

[Evil_Echo 11]

Thank you for the heads-up.

[snoops_213 75]

If I understand correctly, you are asking if FD could be extended to support other types of ammunition besides HE. That could be accomplished either by extending the current FSM or writing another dedicated to support missions. I already have hooks in place in the current version, we'll have to see how much can be done with that.

Yes this is what i meant, sorry long day yesterday and it was late when i typed that. That would be great if you can add it to the current FSM. Copperhead and Smoke could be left out as the AI is not smart enough to ever use it. Although watching the AI dynamically calling in a smoke screen to cover a maneuver would be insane. Its crazy enough now with what you've given us!

Currently, moving targets are not adjusted for. The suggestion of leading a target has already been asked, I have a couple ideas in that area. One being a technique to evaluate the collective movement of a cluster and try to predict the impact point given the time of flight.

Predicting the clusters movement would be the best solution. I had a FO script in OFP where AI would call in arty from Chain of commands UA. Was great but i was never able to figure out the best way to make them hit moving on road targets! I also had an AI spotter round as my first shell and then it would call in arty from there. Sometimes you got lucky most times i would watch shells land around a whole damn convoy but never on it! That might be an idea to add spot rounds for AI to help with moving targets as well?

[dmarkwick 261]

Predicting the clusters movement would be the best solution. I had a FO script in OFP where AI would call in arty from Chain of commands UA. Was great but i was never able to figure out the best way to make them hit moving on road targets! I also had an AI spotter round as my first shell and then it would call in arty from there. Sometimes you got lucky most times i would watch shells land around a whole damn convoy but never on it! That might be an idea to add spot rounds for AI to help with moving targets as well?

I'm not sure calling in arty rounds on a moving road target is a good thing to do, from a tactical viewpoint it's a risky maneuver that will increase AI danger & combat levels and most likely waste arty rounds. Better to force a convoy stop and call in arty as soon as possible after, which probably means a bit of a firefight for a minute or two :)

IMO, predictive targeting should be for slow moving targets, like an armoured vehicle set to "limited" movement speed, or a slow moving infantry squad. As discussed previously, units moving sufficiently fast should have a reducing factoring value for targeting.

[Evil_Echo 11]

Both good points from DMarkwick and snoops_123.

Sounds like options are in order to support both these notions. That way it stays flexible and you folks retain control over behavior.

Starting to code the new features. This willl take a while...

[CaptainBravo 0]

Evil_Echo;

Definitely try it without ACE. Recent reports indicated that the ACE artillery did not play well with my code, which uses the standard BIS artillery system. If that does not help, strip your mod list all the way down to just CBA and ECHO to verify that works, then add the others back one at a time.

--------------------------------------

It did work with vanilla arma and cba. So Not sure which mod is the offending one (have over 10 mod files) But have a feeling it is ACE as it is the only major mod I have.

Any chance of having both working together as your mod sounds what the game misses most, smart arti for AI.

[manzilla 1]

Starting to code the new features. This willl take a while...

Uh, uh..... Any updates? ;) (Kidding of course)

I just want to say thanks for this and what you gave me well before this was a public release. Without you guys dedicating time to enhance this game I would've stopped playing years ago.

This is a gem.

Thanks again for this and your contributions to ACE2, etc.

[snoops_213 75]

IMO, predictive targeting should be for slow moving targets, like an armoured vehicle set to "limited" movement speed, or a slow moving infantry squad. As discussed previously, units moving sufficiently fast should have a reducing factoring value for targeting.

Fair point here. Maybe limit it to slow moving vehicles. Thanks evil for you efforts man!!

[Evil_Echo 11]

CaptainBravo:

Glad you got it working, I'd love to know for sure if it was ACE or one of the others if you'd be willing to do a bit more testing. It's greatly appreciated.

Let's leave the question of compatibility alone until we can be certain an issue exists with ACE or not.

Manzilla:

Uh, uh..... Any updates? ;) (Kidding of course)

Actually...

I have two new functions working to set/get a spotter's observation range. They should help on dense maps and also gives you folks a way to make binoculars, spotting scopes, sniper rifles matter. In your script you could just check the inventory of a spotter and set its range to what seems appropriate for those items. So a ordinary guy with ironsights might see 600m and another with a 10-20x scope can report units at 1800m. Setting the range to 0 suppresses reporting at all.

The Observe script now uses this and the FSM will set a default (somewhat short) range if you have not done so prior to starting it up. Changing the range works too, no need to restart the FSM.

The Observe script is additionally now recording unit velocity. That will work with two more functions that will allow you to set/get limits on how much movement you want to permit before degrading a fire mission's rating for a given battery. And can be used for some predictive fire routines.

Not yet ready for release, but it's progress.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Evil_Echo

[das attorney 858]

Das Attorney:

Always loved that avatar of yours, Oddball from "Kelly's Heroes", yes?

Adding exclusion zones are already in the todo queue. The fire director already derates missions that are too close to known friendly units, neutrals could be in trouble.

Although I'd prefer to use locations instead of markers. You get all the geometry of markers/triggers and none of the clutter on the map, plus a very nice ability to do a "_unit in _this_location" test. It's easy to make new locations from marker data via script if needed. The maps are chock-full of locations already, saving much effort if you just want to specify a town or neighborhood.

Have used locations in a training mission for my clan that involved a full nuclear exchange. There I needed a quick way to get a list of targets and assign different yields and burst modes ( ground burst only for the capital and major cities, air burst for smaller areas to reduce fallout hazards ). Locations proved to be a fast method and quite flexible.

Lol yes, it's Oddball. I like his resistance to negative waves. Especially from Moriarity. ;)

I managed to integrate ECHO into a mission I'm working on, and it's cool as fuck. Before using ECHO, I had to write in a flaky method to spur the player on to their objective. Now, with a few choice spotters, the player is duty bound to keep advancing (until the spotters are brown bread). This is without having to resort to cheap ways (like timers) to encourage the player to advance.

Thanks, Ryan

[gunterlund21 10]

echo how much ammo do the guns carry. they fell silent and Im not sure if its cause they ran out of ammo or the spotters were killed :-)

[snoops_213 75]

echo how much ammo do the guns carry. they fell silent and Im not sure if its cause they ran out of ammo or the spotters were killed :-)

This is script/FSM only so what ever the default loadout is for the Arty pieces. I think its 30 for 105mm and 8 or so for the mortars. To get more add more magazines, unfortunately i can't get the ammo vehicles to resupply any of the guns of any type, so that might be your only hope to have more ammo.

@Evil

That is good, i have a mission where a couple of UAV's are running around looking for enemy positions, this will make it a bit easier on the target list :D What has the highest rating for attack? I've managed to have some GRAD's and M270's take out each others mortars and gun emplacements before turning on each other, looked awesome but now I've changed something in the mission and ECHO doesn't work. LOL

[Evil_Echo 11]

I believe snoops_213 is correct about default load. Recall some scripts a while back ( "Real Artillery" ) that did reloads - so the technique is out there. Do you folks want some support for supply vehicles or ammo dumps?

Target types priorities are...

1. Static weapons ( arty, mg nests, etc )
   
2. Heavy Armor
   
3. Light Armor
   
4. Soft targets ( Infantry, trucks, etc )
   

Always remember that debug parameter, snoops_213. Crank it up a bit and you should get clues about what happened to your mission. Level 5 will flood the RPT with a LOT of data, so work your way up. Also watch the map, I put markers in debug mode to show what targets are looked at and what are aimed at.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Evil_Echo

[gunterlund21 10]

Yes on the resupply