"Opening up Arma 3 to paid user-made content" - How?

A: The modding community obviously plays a large role, especially if you then include the mission building community within that. You claim 90% of servers run no mods, how many of those use BI provided game modes?

B: You have a 25 mission campaign (main missions that is). I don't know what the average playtime is, but Survive is fairly short (as in each mission is quite quick). That took the devs four and a half hours to play on a livestream and that included somebody who'd made the campaign himself. Adapt is obviously far longer (I'd guess at a minimum seven or eight hours) and Win is again quite short. All told that's at least ten hours of singleplayer content on a single play through. Adapt especially is also far more replayable given the more open nature of the missions. Plus an hour on the prologue campaign if you want to count that. Seems pretty solid to me.

C: You don't have to pay to get the features. The whole point is everyone gets the features for free regardless of whether or not they want to support the company. It's not like BI should simply give you extra content for free.

You're right, but they should deliver me a full game when I pay for one, not a game where I have to buy heavy lift choppers as a separate expansion. This is the equivalent of me buying a piece of furniture and then being told I have to buy the screws separately.

Without a game to plug them into, the 7 helicopters you got for free from RHS would be pretty useless. It seems to me that you are primarily interested in art assets. Again, there is much more to a video game that how many or what kind of helicopters and cars you can drive.

Why do you say that?

No, without an engine to plug into it's useless, but without the game ArmA III it is not. While yeah I'd like art assets, that's not it. I'd like each faction to not be the exact same thing as it's counterpart (FIA is AAF, CSAT is NATO) in literally every way. Each faction should have distinct advantages and disadvantages as in the last few games, but everything is the exact same in every single way with nothing that is better or worse than the other.

Can you please stop your offtopic discussion in here..

PS: RHS chopper models are (mostly?) based on BI source data, are they not?

;2862256']Can you please stop your offtopic discussion in here..

PS: RHS chopper models are (mostly?) based on BI source data' date=' are they not?[/quote']

I believe most (all?) of the US helos are.

But you're right, this has gotten pretty off topic.

;2862256']Can you please stop your offtopic discussion in here..

PS: RHS chopper models are (mostly?) based on BI source data' date=' are they not?[/quote']

yes, the initial content is based on A2 mlods

(just that people don't misunderstand - IMO its totally fine, or even more so a good idea to use BI sources;

the reason to point this out was to stop the ridiculous BI vs RHS debate here)

I don't see why it's ridiculous, his point is clear, he'd rather pay $15 for the RHS mod (numerous vehicles, both ported and wholly original) than BI's Helicopters DLC (2 vehicles).

I would too.

I would be fine with it only on certain conditions.

1. the mod creators must have some liability, no "kickstarter" scamming. They must have a finished mod product or at least something of quality that either BI or some other 3rd party can properly judge as deemed good. Of course a finished product doesn't necessary mean the entire mod complete, but it must have a certain amount of content to justify it being considered up for purchase. I.E a player release a tank mod, it contains 4 complete and functional tank models, with additional 2 on the way along with basic tweaking.

2. Yes, the mods must be 100% theirs, no porting BI models or other games. Exeptions would be paying for the rights to said models.

I don't see why it's ridiculous, his point is clear, he'd rather pay $15 for the RHS mod (numerous vehicles, both ported and wholly original) than BI's Helicopters DLC (2 vehicles).

I would too.

Then do it. You don't have to buy the DLC and the RHS team has a donation link on their site. But it's still silly to get mad that the DLC only has 2 vehicles when the reason that this is the case is because BIS made a decision to release the majority of the DLC content for free, including numerous props, a new helicopter texture, a new variant of the MH-9, and several game features.

Why is DLC even a part of this discussion? It has nothing to do with the topic.

Then do it. You don't have to buy the DLC and the RHS team has a donation link on their site. But it's still silly to get mad that the DLC only has 2 vehicles when the reason that this is the case is because BIS made a decision to release the majority of the DLC content for free, including numerous props, a new helicopter texture, a new variant of the MH-9, and several game features.

And some generally pay that extra 20€ (for the bundle) when they bought the whole game for 25€ (or was it 28€) or don't care at all if they bought the Supporter Edition. In current day it's very hard to put any prices on games and DLCs because of sales and EA prices so games go very cheap.

Then do it.

I've already donated to RHS (and haven't bought the DLC either) but this isn't really pertinent to the discussion which is proposing that a mechanism should be considered to allow mod makers to sell their creations rather than rely on voluntary donations. You might not like the proposition but the discussion and the point about relative value (compared to BI's DLC) is still valid.

I would be fine with it only on certain conditions.

1. the mod creators must have some liability, no "kickstarter" scamming. They must have a finished mod product or at least something of quality that either BI or some other 3rd party can properly judge as deemed good. Of course a finished product doesn't necessary mean the entire mod complete, but it must have a certain amount of content to justify it being considered up for purchase. I.E a player release a tank mod, it contains 4 complete and functional tank models, with additional 2 on the way along with basic tweaking.

2. Yes, the mods must be 100% theirs, no porting BI models or other games. Exeptions would be paying for the rights to said models.

No mod can belong 100% to one person/team. Gong to stroke my own ego for a second but even something like my apache has to rely on outside assistance http://mechmodels.com/mas/downloads/ah64v2/manual/ah64dv2_manual.html

So if someone comes along and creates a fully custom vehicle (like I did) and uses a script function to perform a major component, even if we did the majority of coding, all of the modelling and just about all of the texturing, outside sources still proved to be a very important aspect to which a particular function would not have been possible.

What then?

I've already donated to RHS (and haven't bought the DLC either) but this isn't really pertinent to the discussion which is proposing that a mechanism should be considered to allow mod makers to sell their creations rather than rely on voluntary donations. You might not like the proposition but the discussion and the point about relative value (compared to BI's DLC) is still valid.

First of all, the discussion wasn't about relative value. It was an accusation that BIS deliberately released an unfinished game with the intention of making money of of modders backs.

Second, I don't see the point of comparing mods to DLC when the relative value of those products are not easily comparable and highly subjective.

And again, and most importantly, and stop ignoring this: It is incredibly misleading to say that the Helicopters DLC was just 2 helicopters. Several imporant features were developed alongside the DLC as part of that package, but released for free with the intent of the purchases from the DLC helicopters supporting the development of those features.

RHS is a cool mod. If you want to pay for high quality mods like that, then fine. This thread is supposed to be for discussing how such a system could be implemented and the pros and cons of paid user content. What does complaining about not being satisfied with the DLC have to do with that? At the end of the day, this whole line of discussion was started by a guy who just posted a thread about how he thinks DLC should be free because BIS apparently didn't give him everything they "promised" and he has arbitrarily decided that DLC content that was never advertised or shown off prior to release should have been in the game in the first place.

Edit:

No mod can belong 100% to one person/team. Gong to stroke my own ego for a second but even something like my apache has to rely on outside assistance http://mechmodels.com/mas/downloads/ah64v2/manual/ah64dv2_manual.html

So if someone comes along and creates a fully custom vehicle (like I did) and uses a script function to perform a major component, even if we did the majority of coding, all of the modelling and just about all of the texturing, outside sources still proved to be a very important aspect to which a particular function would not have been possible.

What then?

I would assume that things like this could be taken care of with deals before release. But you're right, it could potentially cause problems with collaboration or building on other people's concepts.

...

Maybe when they make you a mod you'll have a mandate to decide what's up for discussion and what's relevant but until such time I'll continue to post what I consider pertinent and relevant. BIS can fund their patches however they see fit but that doesn't change the fact that the added value from spending $15 (over not doing so) amounts to just two helicopters. Maybe they need to change what they're doing if people don't see voluntary support of the additional features as sufficient motivation to purchase.

You seem set on arguing for the sake of it all over this forum.

Maybe when they make you a mod you'll have a mandate to decide what's up for discussion and what's relevant but until such time I'll continue to post what I consider pertinent and relevant. BIS can fund their patches however they see fit but that doesn't change the fact that the added value from spending $15 (over not doing so) amounts to just two helicopters. Maybe they need to change what they're doing if people don't see voluntary support of the additional features as sufficient motivation to purchase.

You seem set on arguing for the sake of it all over this forum.

The fact that I don't agree with you doesn't mean that I'm just arguing for the sake of it, and that accusation doesn't invalidate any of my points. But since this debate can't contribute in any productive way to the topic, I'll excuse myself from it.

Modding should not be seen as a job career and is a bit unrealistic to expect making life with it, however there is nothing wrong in asking for donations assuming that the content distribution is not dependent of it.

Now, it's a bit weird to see guys that the only thing they do is to upload some allegorical videos having financial support while the creative guys are being despised. Weird world.

No mod can belong 100% to one person/team. Gong to stroke my own ego for a second but even something like my apache has to rely on outside assistance http://mechmodels.com/mas/downloads/ah64v2/manual/ah64dv2_manual.html

So if someone comes along and creates a fully custom vehicle (like I did) and uses a script function to perform a major component, even if we did the majority of coding, all of the modelling and just about all of the texturing, outside sources still proved to be a very important aspect to which a particular function would not have been possible.

What then?

Guess I should of clarified the exceptions part, your still making a mod and have to rely on the coding and mechanics of the game you made the mod for. However your already licensed by BI to create such content and call it your own using their scripting languages and such. Assuming of course BI allowed it, as it would be the only way we could even have some system like this. Even if you didn't make the model, as long as you have some proof that you have attained permission by it's creator for commercial purposes I would be fine with it. The point is, if modders wanted payment for their work. They would have to be judged under the same book as a game developer would be in. BI for example, couldn't get away with using music from Bioware without paying some fee :P

Let's continue everyone's favorite topic, shall we? :rolleyes: So what's happening on the front?

> Content Creators Earn Over $50M Through Steam Workshop, Can Now Earn Money in More Games

http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/154581565731694927

When we launched the Workshop late in 2011, we expected that it would grow, but not that it would grow this much, this quickly.

So far, the total payments made to individuals for the creation of in-game items sold in Team Fortress 2, Dota 2, and

Counter-Strike: Global Offensive have passed $57 million. This money was earned by over 1,500 contributors spread out across 75 countries.

> New Curated Workshops

The limitation of paid, revenue-generating Workshops to Valve content has been an unfortunate consequence of the sheer number

of challenges required in order to scale to a global audience of creators and players. Today we're happy to announce that

after a ton of work, the first curated Workshops for non-Valve games have opened: Dungeon Defenders: Eternity and Chivalry: Medieval Warfare.

This is really exciting news and means that more high quality content will be available for the game you love playing.

Plus, purchases of this great new content directly enables those community members to continue practicing their craft and making more awesome content.

We expect more curated Workshops to become available for creators and players in various games over the coming weeks and months.

News articles and comments:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/01/30/steam-workshop-57-million-dollars/

http://www.pcgamer.com/steam-workshop-creators-have-made-over-57-million-since-2011/

http://www.gamewatcher.com/news/2015-29-01-steam-adds-new-curated-workshops-for-non-valve-titles

https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/2u0s8x/content_creators_earn_over_50m_through_steam/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/2u0k94/valve_content_creators_earn_over_50m_through/

https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/2u17de/valve_has_paid_out_57m_to_creators_making_hats/

http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1442168 (German)

Stats:

• Accepted items: 4524
  
  • Dota 2: 3,575 (of 21,628 = 17%) - http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/about/?appid=570
    
  • Team Fortress 2: 761 (of 10,237 = 7%) - http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/about/?appid=440
    
  • Counter-Strike: Global Offensive: 188 (of 91,528 = 0,2%) - http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/about/?appid=730
    

  [*]Over 1,500 contributors earning close to $57 million

  [*]On average: $38,000 per author and $12,600 per item

  [*]Over a period of several years (since 2011)

  [*]The profit isnt equally distribuited - the most popular items generate significantly more cash than unpopular ones

> Revenue Share: 25%

> This is the percentage of revenue an item creator receives from direct sales of their item.

Ref: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/about/?appid=302270

Seems to be the same percentage for every game so far - including Valve's own.

Probably 30% for Valve, 45% for publisher/game developer, 25% for modder

Legal/contract details:

Steam Workshop Agreement:

• Revenue Share for Paid Distribution of Contributions
  
• Setting Prices
  
• Taxes
  
• Group Contributions
  
• Bundling
  
• Indirect Distributions of Contributions
  
• Revenue Share on Fees Collected on Secondary Sales
  
• Sales Data
  

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement/?appid=440

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement/?appid=570

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement/?appid=730

(should be the same for every game (so far))

Steam Subscriber Agreement:

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

Possibilities:

ENABLED FEATURES

These are the Steam Workshop features utilized by Team Fortress 2:

> Curated Item Selection

Items posted in this Workshop aren't immediately usable in the Team Fortress 2. Instead, the developers are looking

to the community to rate up items they would most like to see made available to buy or unlock within Team Fortress 2.

Ultimately, the developers choose which items to select and add to Team Fortress 2.

> Item Sales

Accepted items from the Workshop are made available for purchase or can be unlocked within Team Fortress 2.

> Item Creators Can Earn Royalties

Items from this Workshop that are accepted for sale will pay the creators a split of the revenue if that item is sold for a fee.

> Service Providers Can Earn Royalties

Workshop authors can select from a pre-approved list of organizations, users, and toolmakers to receive a percentage of

Valve's revenue from sale of their items. The specific organizations and individuals are listed below (see following link).

Ref: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/about/?appid=440

Comments by random people:

I think a curated Steam Workshop for a specific game needs to be allowed by the game developer of the game in question.

A curated Workshop is also vote based. People vote on the mods, no one can download them.

Developers take notice of the mods with the most positive votes and decide to implement some of them.

One has to buy it from an in game store I believe, if the developers decide to implement it.

I don't think you can pay through the actual curated Steam Workshop.

It seems Chivalry: medieval warfare uses both ways. One can subscribe to free mods and submit items for voting.

Mods most voted for get reviewed by the developers for implementation. If it's accepted, it'll get implemented officially.

Q: How does the item publishing process work?

A: Like this:

1. You create an item that meets the submission requirements.
   
2. You test your item using the in-game 'itemtest' map.
   
3. You publish your item to the Steam Workshop through the in-game item publishing tool.
   
4. We review your item and potentially select it to be added to the game.
   
5. If selected we contact you then integrate the item into Team Fortress 2.
   
6. We test your item.
   
7. We add it to the game and split the money your item generates in the Mann Co. store with you.
   

http://www.teamfortress.com/workshop/

Other criteria

• Workshop submissions require sufficient community support.
  
• Items have to introduce something unique and different compared to items already in the game.
  
• Cosmetics mustn't interfere with class identification. Classes should remain easily recognizable:
  areas that display team colors must be maintained and the geometry must complement the base character model underneath.
  
• Items should complement and avoid clipping with most other cosmetics, allowing users to customize their look further.
  
• Submissions may not be copyrighted by other companies.
  

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Steam_Workshop

> Cosmetic Items

Cosmetic items are sold for real money in the Steam Store, but before these objects must be submitted to the Dota 2 Workshop on Steam.

Only submissions approved by Valve are added to the store. Creators of approved contents receive a portion of their sales proceeds.

Users can rate submissions, although a higher rating does not guarantee its approval.

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/List_of_community-contributed_items

Older news:

> New Voting Queue

Workshops for games such as Team Fortress 2, Dota 2, and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive include a type of items that players

vote on to help determine which items can get accepted and made available for use in the game.

Workshops with these types of items now have a voting queue, similar to the queue in Greenlight or on the Steam home page.

This queue will make it easy to discover new and interesting items to vote on, and will help the game teams get a better measure

of community interest on the variety of items being considered for use in the game.

> New Home Pages For Every Workshop

Each product Workshop now has a new home page design, helping to highlight the most interesting content in the Workshop,

and to also better expose a variety of ways to browse the Workshop. With this new home page, customers can now more easily

see mods, maps, or items created by authors they follow, see what their friends are marking as favorites, and read about recent

Workshop news from the game teams.

This new home page also provides space for games to run special events such as themed contests, or to highlight new types of

content supported by their Workshop.

http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/163581790341047748

Valve is announcing that it has introduced a new feature to Steam, which allows those who are creating items for DOTA 2 or Team Fortress 2 via the Workshop to share revenue, taken from the company's cut, with toolmakers, mentors, and even entire player communities.

> Valve: TF2 and DOTA 2 Item Makers Can Share Revenue with Toolmakers, Mentors

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Valve-TF2-and-DOTA-2-Item-Makers-Can-Share-Revenue-with-Toolmakers-Mentors-363954.shtml

Valve's Steam Workshop is life-changing. The community curated creative space has finally realised the dream of modders everywhere, rewarding them for the work they put into making games better. Team Fortress 2 and Dota 2 enable contributors to earn money from their creations, leading to some modders earning a six-figure income, according to comments made by Gabe Newell at CES. A living wage from making intangible hats, fish, and imaginary weaponry? I had to find out who these people were, and what modding - specifically modding Team Fortress 2 - has added to their lives.

> Tales from the Steam Workshop: we talk to modelers

http://www.pcgamer.com/tales-from-the-steam-workshop-we-talk-to-modelers-making-six-figure-sums/

AusGamers newcomer Eamon Tapples sits down with an Aussie who's taken the Steam Workshop to new financial levels

Few things have revolutionised game design like the Steam Workshop. With its release, anyone with a basic level of artistic talent can create and publish items for in-game use. With successful members of the workshop scene making over USD$500,000 per year, game design can now potentially become a lucrative career for anyone with a copy of Adobe Photoshop.

> A New Kind of Weapons Dealer - Cracking the Steam Workshop for a Living

http://www.ausgamers.com/features/read/3486543

• The History of Modding
  
• The Economy of Modding
  
• Modding as “Playbourâ€
  
• Modding as Precarious Labour
  
• The Modding Community as a Dispersed Multitude
  
• The Future of Modding
  

> FCJ-025 Precarious Playbour: Modders and the Digital Games Industry

http://five.fibreculturejournal.org/fcj-025-precarious-playbour-modders-and-the-digital-games-industry/

Works wonderfully =bad example ...high price for easy weapon skin^^guess who has the money.......in the end more worse as the whole DLC case

I sure do hope the pricing history does not indicate previous purchases.

You got that wrong TeilX, or do you want to mislead people?

1. This is about Steam Community Marketplace.

2. People can set the price on their own.

3. 400$ is the max allowed by Valve.

4. As such you find these items also way cheaper.

5. These are mostly dropped items people sell to one another. Buying a modder made item above the price in the curated workshop doesn't make any sense.

> Restrictions

What kind of Steam Wallet and item listing restrictions apply?

Currently we are restricting Steam Wallet balances to $500. We also limit the maximum price of a single listing on the market to $400. You will be restricted from listing items for sale in the Community Market if the existing balance in your Steam Wallet, plus the sale price of the item(s), would together exceed the $500 limit. We may be raising the Steam Wallet balance limit, or otherwise changing this restriction, in the future. Note that, if you have multiple accounts, balances for all Steam Wallets associated with all of your accounts will be aggregated for purposes of applying this limit.

Are there minimum or maximum sales prices for items in the Community Market?

Currently there is no minimum sales price, although we may decide to impose a minimum price in the future. Currently, the maximum price for any particular item is $400.

From: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=6088-UDXM-7214

mislead no,but attention.

1. The only winner if someone would buy this over priced item or a cheaper in the example is the Company.

since this credit can only be spent on Steam, or in the Item Shop of Valve games. Since the money thus is always in the steam cycle

Probably 30% for Valve, 45% for publisher/game developer, 25% for modder

55% in the end for Valve

2.brings alot of guys like these with overpriced items

3.i can bet it don't work in all games

I don't quite get your point. It seems very unlikely to me that BI would introduce item drops or even the market place to arma.

Do you really believe that?

And if they would, it seems largely only benefical to the users:

1) Item drops = free payed mods

2) Market place = resale payed mods you no longer need or you don't like

What is the "Steam Transaction Fee"?

The Steam Transaction Fee is collected by Steam and is used to protect against nominal fraud incidents and cover the cost of development of this and future Steam economy features. The fee is currently 5% (with a minimum fee of $0.01). This fee may be increased or decreased in the future.

Who pays the "Steam Transaction Fee"?

The buyer pays the Steam Transaction Fee. The Steam Transaction Fee is calculated based on the item cost and is shown on the confirmation page before purchase.

What is the "Team Fortress 2 Fee"? What is the "Dota 2 Fee"? What is the "Counter-Strike: Global Offensive Fee"?

The Team Fortress 2 Fee is a game specific fee that is determined and collected by the game publisher. The Fee is currently set at 10%.

The Dota 2 Fee is a game specific fee that is determined and collected by the game publisher. The Fee is currently set at 10%.

The CS:GO Fee is a game specific fee that is determined and collected by the game publisher. The Fee is currently set at 10%.

Source: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=6088-UDXM-7214

So for every sale its 5% to Valve and a game specific fee. So how do you get to 55%?

IMO it doesn't make sense to add up the workshop fee and the marketplace fee.

Can you explain this please:

brings alot of guys like these with overpriced items

Workshop price is set by publisher/game company.

Marketplace price is ordered from lowest to highest. So only dump people would buy something over the minimum offer.

Or in other words your examples with 400$, you can buy way cheaper too. So what's the point to buy it for that funny price?

Please explain this in more detail too. What are you referring to and what is your point here?

i can bet it don't work in all games

It easy, earned money don't leave Steam. No Pay it off/paying out. It will be always in the Steam account.

Can I withdraw or transfer funds from my Community Market sales/transactions?

No. All Community Market sales and purchases are completed using the Steam Wallet. The funds cannot be withdrawn or transferred to another Steam account or to a bank/3rd party account. You may use the funds to purchase Steam gifts to send to other users.

It seems very unlikely to me that BI would introduce item drops or even the market place to arma...

or do advertising for a very questionable method;)

One could see it as a good system not allowing to withdraw money - directly at least, as there are indirect ways

like gifting games or half one part of a trade done within steam and the other just outside with real money.

In any case thats just about the community marketplace anyway, and people can still use the funds to buy games

on steam, or workshop items etc.

As for share to modders for items traded in the marketplace:

7. Revenue Share on Fees Collected on Secondary Sales.

In cases where your Contribution is capable of being sold by Steam Subscribers in the Steam Community Market, Valve or the Publisher

may choose to share a portion of any game fee, if any, they receive in connection with such secondary sales.

The applicable Workshop page may provide information about potential revenue sharing in this case.

Source: https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement/?appid=440

The funds the modder makes from sales in the workshop and the marketplace of course get payed out as real money.

So it seems you misunderstood some parts here.

So far I am not convinced going that route in general or using the steam system is the right way to go.

However remaining ignorant to what is out there and what BI is likely to do, seems not wise to me.

Only if people get educated about it and voice their opinions or concerns, there is a chance to influence BI at all.

So its up to you what to make of it.

The funds the modder makes from sales in the workshop and the marketplace of course get payed out as real money.

So it seems you misunderstood some parts here.

to share a portion of any game fee, if any, they receive in connection with such secondary sales.

Actually it is in very early stages and Chivalry: Medieval Warfare and Dungeon Defenders Eternity are the first games ouside the Valve Collection. ....only the next step will show whether it is worth or not.

. who knows