Us and eu fighting..

[foxer 0]

click me

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ April 21 2002,05:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">click me<span id='postcolor'>

eh..whatever...

[Wobble 1]

The European Union has described the U.S. decision as political, and without legal or economic foundation.

and EU is doing its in retaliation.. which is also without legal or economic foundation.. wow, 2 wrongs DO make a right.. LOL..

[Wobble 1]

President Bush slapped tariffs of up to 30 percent on several types of imported steel in an effort to help the ailing U.S. industry

this is why EU is pissed off

ya know.. we see this EVERY FUCKING day.. where? OPEC.. whenever an OPEC nation is having a problem they simply raise oil prices (AND THUS OUR GAS PRICES) by god knows how much just to help an "ailing industry".... it has nothing to do with supply or demand in these cases.. just a simple "we need more money this year.. so lets chrage extra for oil"

yet nobody seems to give a shit about that totally disgusting and corrupt monopoly..

and it goes on every single day

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ April 21 2002,09:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">yet nobody seems to give a shit about that totally disgusting and corrupt monopoly..

and it goes on every single day<span id='postcolor'>

The oil prices are highly regulated by the US and Europe. What do you think that the Gulf War was about? Protecting the Kuwaitis because they are so nice people? Yeah right.

The difference is also that we have steel production here in Europe locally. So let fair be fair and we'll mirror the tax that Bush put on European steel with the same for American steel.

[Wobble 1]

What do you think that the Gulf War was about? Protecting the Kuwaitis because they are so nice people? Yeah right

actually alot of what the gulf war had to do with was WW2.. because Saddam, strategy's and way of thinking mirrored hitler's almsot to a T and both conflicts stated the exact same way.. and all of NATO didnt want Saddam's little trip to end up getting him allies like german got italy and Japan once they say that nobody was gong to do anything..

also (for the US) it took a cue from vietnam.. and a big lesson learned.. go hard go fast.. dont drag shit out..

it was a fear by all of NATO that if saddam toom kuate with no penalty that libia, syeria and other shady middle east countries would see the example and everyone weould start invading everyone.. so NATO decided that an example must be made..

plus that fast that saddam was a ruthless disgusting shithead who had shown he wasnt above using poinsen gas.. even on his own people.. torture.. etc etc..

[ralphwiggum 6]

if you don't pay attention to outside world, wobble, you might not see it. most countries opened their market(any type that is currently open) because US forced them. JPN opened their auto market after US threatened with Super 301(bet you are not familiar with this term). result? big US cars don't fit well with narrow streets of JPN

the problem that bush faces here is that he is trying to gather votes from steel workers by risking steel consumers. any classic economist will tell you that tariff is not a good thing for efficiency.

[Wobble 1]

if you don't pay attention to outside world, wobble, you might not see it. most countries opened their market(any type that is currently open) because US forced them. JPN opened their auto market after US threatened with Super 301(bet you are not familiar with this term). result? big US cars don't fit well with narrow streets of JPN

totally off topic.. but anyway.. yea look at poor ole japan.. one of the wealthiest per capta countries in history.. the US had every chance and ability to make Japan cease to exist back in WW2 .. all the allies figured the UD would take over japan and make it a US colony.. etc etc..

P.S. the title of this thread "US and EU fighting" is fucking stupid

yea look at what the evil ole US has dont to poor ole japan.. LOL..

also what MAKES a market is deman and supply.. you ahve a supply and refuse to sell to someone who has the demand.. they wont like you.. thats universal.. not just US..

but go ahead with you rampant ANTI-US ignorant twat bullshit, not that i give a fuck, envy breeds contempt and that something us dum americans have come to live with.. bash and piss and moan all ya want.. but remember at the end of the day after all is said and done.. the evil ole US still does more humanitarian, military, and financal aid than any other country. so despite your hipocritic hatred of the US.. its still the most wholesome world superpower in history..

so continue your childish brainless, dickless bashing, I wont even bother reading this thread anymore.. so have a ball.

[ralphwiggum 6]

additionally, US also theatens other nations with tariffs also.

[ralphwiggum 6]

wobble, did you shoot another 'empty' can?

you are pissed off at EU slapping tariffs on US goods and you chant about how bad OPEC is, yet you turn blind eyes to US doing same thing. very nice. you are like Osama. 'If I do it, it's ok, if you do it, f-u'

yeah right! deman & supply is the only force of market. well, let's see if Enron can say that!

[ALDEGA 0]

The gulf war was about the oil, ofcourse. The "omg that evil sadam is such a bad person" is just a way of gaining public support and justifying it. The US will never do such a thing if there isn't any of their "intrests" in danger. The US "use" the rest of the world to help their intrests, they don't care at all for the rest of the world. They see us as puppets that they can use whenever they feel like, but when somebody else asks them for help, they say no. Like they can start a war "against terror" in afghanistan, but they won't let Israel do the same. Now that's called measuring with two standards.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ALDEGA @ April 21 2002,10:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The US will never do such a thing if there isn't any of their "intrests" in danger. .<span id='postcolor'>

Well, I think that they will, but never so quickly as in the Iraq case. They will do things that are not in their strategic interest if there is a public opinion for it (like Kosovo), but that took 8 years for them to decide to do something. The swift response to the Kuwait situation had only to do with strategic resource interests. And they did it pretty good, using the fear of the other Arab countries (Saudi Arabia for instance) to get them on their side (for future use).

[Pukko 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ April 21 2002,09:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What do you think that the Gulf War was about? Protecting the Kuwaitis because they are so nice people? Yeah right

actually alot of what the gulf war had to do with was WW2.. because Saddam, strategy's and way of thinking mirrored hitler's almsot to a T and both conflicts stated the exact same way..  and  all of NATO didnt want Saddam's little trip to end up getting him allies like german got italy and Japan once they say that nobody was gong to do anything..

also (for the US) it took  a cue from vietnam.. and a big lesson learned.. go hard go fast.. dont drag shit out..

it was a fear by all of NATO that if saddam toom kuate with no penalty that libia, syeria and other shady middle east countries would see the example and everyone weould start invading everyone.. so NATO decided that an example must be made..

plus that fast that saddam was a ruthless disgusting shithead who had shown he wasnt above using poinsen gas.. even on his own people.. torture.. etc etc..<span id='postcolor'>

Ya, and if I say that US Government was behind 9/11 we are probably on the same level; only that my statement is far more likely to be true And I have to say that US invasion of Afganistan was a real "good example" of what is allowed to do.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but go ahead with you rampant ANTI-US ignorant twat bullshit, not that i give a fuck, envy breeds contempt and that something us dum americans have come to live with.. bash and piss and moan all ya want.. but remember at the end of the day after all is said and done.. the evil ole US still does more humanitarian, military, and financal aid than any other country. so despite your hipocritic hatred of the US.. its still the most wholesome world superpower in history..<span id='postcolor'>

And I who thought this was meant to be a ANTI-EU "ignorant twat bullshit" thread. USA do give some humanitarian help, but not much per capita. Military and financial aid is quite perverse to say I think; in some cases true, in most rather exploation.

Damn, I just had to make a little offensive post here, seeing how Wobble gets going for nothing  

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ April 21 2002,10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if you don't pay attention to outside world, wobble, you might not see it. most countries opened their market(any type that is currently open) because US forced them. JPN opened their auto market after US threatened with Super 301(bet you are not familiar with this term). result? big US cars don't fit well with narrow streets of JPN

totally off topic.. but anyway.. yea look at poor ole japan.. one of the wealthiest per capta countries in history.. the US had every chance and ability to make Japan cease to exist back in WW2 .. all the allies figured the UD would take over japan and make it a US colony.. etc etc..

P.S. the title of this thread "US and EU fighting" is fucking stupid

yea look at what the evil ole US has dont to poor ole japan.. LOL..

also what MAKES a market is deman and supply.. you ahve a supply and refuse to sell to someone who has the demand.. they wont like you.. thats universal.. not just US..

but go ahead with you rampant ANTI-US ignorant twat bullshit, not that i give a fuck, envy breeds contempt and that something us dum americans have come to live with.. bash and piss and moan all ya want.. but remember at the end of the day after all is said and done.. the evil ole US still does more humanitarian, military, and financal aid than any other country. so despite your hipocritic hatred of the US.. its still the most wholesome world superpower in history..

so continue your childish brainless, dickless bashing, I wont even bother reading this thread anymore.. so have a ball.<span id='postcolor'>

I bet you once had hot-tempered italians in you family!  <!--emo&

No the reason why the EU is so pissed of is pretty clear. It has rather less to do with the decision to rise taxes by 30% but with the steel industry in Europe. In my country there are regions which have been focusing on cole and steel production for 2 centuries. And those companies have become the only employer around. And of course there are other industries that parasite from the huge amount of steel-workes.

In the last decades those regions started to suffer terribly, besides steel being used less (more plastics) it can also be produced cheaper in poland or russia and there is no other employer around who could take the great amount of workers that no longer are needed. Cities that once were the capital of 'work' become desasterous ghost cities with uncredible high percentages of unemployment.

Fine for the young, they can go and work elsewhere in the country but the old never did anything else than produce steel. Now we risk to loose even the last source of income for those workers in the 'forgotten' industry. They suffered enough and were happy they kept their jobs, now you finish them off! I absolutely agree that it is illegal to rise import-taxes to foster national products. And it has never worked. The US tried that with Asian cars before and only harmed itself. This is one of the strategies that has a 'known' boomerang effect. But probably those disadvantages will appear after Bush is gone!

Well, Wobble, in the end it is you and me that have to pay more money for products! The end consumer looses!

[ralphwiggum 6]

well, from my perspective, US did act to make oil supply steady in region, but atrocities that Kuwaities suffered is good enough reason to go in.

and i read an article about private millitary training companies like MRPS(or whatever the spelling is) on LA Times last sunday, and it said Iraq did attack Saudi, and took one of its town. now I don't think US asked Hussein to do that so US can gether support.

also, speaking of Kosovo, I always take this the prominent example of anti-war, anti-US idiot's idiocy. When Kosovo situation started and got worse, these so-called humanism groups comdemned US for not acting to prevent this. but when US started military operation, they started to whine that US is using excessive force.

those sobs had nearly 5 yrs to act and stop Milosevic from doing atrocities, but they can't do it. so then US steps in, and kicks his ass, now those same ppl that cried against Milos works are now calling US sobs.

in other words, they criticized US when US didn't act, and criticize again when US acted.

[AntiPasta 0]

well the topic title doesn't make sense... I thought it was something like a alt.startrek.vs.starwars-scenario ("what if X attacks Y").

Well then I'd guess the EU would be totally trampled, of course

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ April 21 2002,19:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">also, speaking of Kosovo, I always take this the prominent example of anti-war, anti-US idiot's idiocy. When Kosovo situation started and got worse, these so-called humanism groups comdemned US for not acting to prevent this. but when US started military operation, they started to whine that US is using excessive force.

those sobs had nearly 5 yrs to act and stop Milosevic from doing atrocities, but they can't do it. so then US steps in, and kicks his ass, now those same ppl that cried against Milos works are now calling US sobs.

in other words, they criticized US when US didn't act, and criticize again when US acted.<span id='postcolor'>

As for Kosovo or better to say for all the conflicts in the region, EU is more to blame then US for not doing anything.

As for Kosovo, there is a diffenece between intention and actual action.

The intention of NATO in Kosovo was honorable, it was to stop the exodus of the Albanians by Serb forces. Then we have the fact that the NATO bombings killed more Albanians and did more damage to Kosovo then the Serbs is another issue. NATOs intentions were good but the strategy was miserable. Fortunately the public opinion against Milosevic turned in Serbia when bombs began to fall on Belgrade. The tragic part is that NATO had to resort to bombing of civilian infrastructure instead of incapacitating the military forces. So in short: good intentions bad methods.

[DarkLight 0]

HOERAY!!!!

Belgium on CNN!!!

Vive la belgique!

[InRange 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ April 21 2002,19:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">HOERAY!!!!

Belgium on CNN!!!

Vive la belgique!<span id='postcolor'>

Was it because of Liege-Bastogne-Liege?

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 21 2002,19:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for Kosovo or better to say for all the conflicts in the region, EU is more to blame then US for not doing anything.

As for Kosovo, there is a diffenece between intention and actual action.

The intention of NATO in Kosovo was honorable, it was to stop the exodus of the Albanians by Serb forces. Then we have the fact that the NATO bombings killed more Albanians and did more damage to Kosovo then the Serbs is another issue. NATOs intentions were good but the strategy was miserable. Fortunately the public opinion against Milosevic turned in Serbia when bombs began to fall on Belgrade. The tragic part is that NATO had to resort to bombing of civilian infrastructure instead of incapacitating the military forces. So in short: good intentions bad methods.<span id='postcolor'>

very unfortunate situation indeed.

but let's try to think this way; if serbians were not pushed back more Albanians could have been killed. i.e. it's either 10,000 albanians killed by serbs or 2000 albanians killed by errant bombing.

this is a sick thing to think, but it is somewhat of sad truth.

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (InRange @ April 21 2002,20:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ April 21 2002,19:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">HOERAY!!!!

Belgium on CNN!!!

Vive la belgique!<span id='postcolor'>

Was it because of Liege-Bastogne-Liege?<span id='postcolor'>

Um no, click on the link and then read the first line

It says, Belgium, Brussels,....

[Warin 0]

Leave it to Wobble to bitch and moan that everyone hates the US just because other governments are no longer willing to accept oppresive trade practices from the United States.

The timber industry in my home province is being decimated by a toptally unreasonable tariff on softwoods exported to the US.  American timber producers claim that our wood is unfairly subsidized, making it unprofitable for them to do business. And yet the US timber industry is not only highly profitable, but considered a good risk investment.  And as a consequence, my home town is turning into a ghost town because all the jobs are going away.

Yet when other goevernments begin to give them a taste of their own medecine, knee jerk protectionists start to bitch and moan that the rest of the world hates the US.  We dont hate the US, we hate your politicians trying to score points with the electorate by destroying other nations industries.

Tell ya what...lets throw a 29 percent tariff on gas, electricity, and water flowing south to the US and see what you say then...

PS: I dont have a hate on for you Wobble. In fact you are one of the more rational and amusing people on this board. Just sometimes you seem a little far to the right of center

[nordin dk 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ April 21 2002,22:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Leave it to Wobble to bitch and moan that everyone hates the US just because other governments are no longer willing to accept oppresive trade practices from the United States.

The timber industry in my home province is being decimated by a toptally unreasonable tariff on softwoods exported to the US.  American timber producers claim that our wood is unfairly subsidized, making it unprofitable for them to do business.  And yet the US timber industry is not only highly profitable, but considered a good risk investment.  And as a consequence, my home town is turning into a ghost town because all the jobs are going away.

Yet when other goevernments begin to give them a taste of their own medecine, knee jerk protectionists start to bitch and moan that the rest of the world hates the US.  We dont hate the US, we hate your politicians trying to score points with the electorate by destroying other nations industries.

Tell ya what...lets throw a 29 percent tariff on gas, electricity, and water flowing south to the US and see what you say then...

PS: I dont have a hate on for you Wobble.  In fact you are one of the more rational and amusing people on this board.  Just sometimes you seem a little far to the right of center <span id='postcolor'>

He's not reading that you know

He's mad because all the Europeans in the Forum hates the United States. It's not stupidity or double standards per se we don't like.

Oh, and we think all americans are really fat and stupid.

And we are perfect b.t.w., because we never had wars in Europe. And we don't care about money. All we care about is the needy and poor. And we have no crime or ignorance.

bleh!

[Guest]

I really would like to see a book called:

"The History of the World" by Wobble

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ April 21 2002,22:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Leave it to Wobble to bitch and moan that everyone hates the US just because other governments are no longer willing to accept oppresive trade practices from the United States.

The timber industry in my home province is being decimated by a toptally unreasonable tariff on softwoods exported to the US.  American timber producers claim that our wood is unfairly subsidized, making it unprofitable for them to do business.  And yet the US timber industry is not only highly profitable, but considered a good risk investment.  And as a consequence, my home town is turning into a ghost town because all the jobs are going away.

Yet when other goevernments begin to give them a taste of their own medecine, knee jerk protectionists start to bitch and moan that the rest of the world hates the US.  We dont hate the US, we hate your politicians trying to score points with the electorate by destroying other nations industries.

Tell ya what...lets throw a 29 percent tariff on gas, electricity, and water flowing south to the US and see what you say then...

PS: I dont have a hate on for you Wobble.  In fact you are one of the more rational and amusing people on this board.  Just sometimes you seem a little far to the right of center <span id='postcolor'>

Boum Bang!!! Finally someone who shares my style of argumentation. I dont mean the thing about wobble but the example of the timber-industry. This is how you safe the uselessness of this thread! But people usually dont read it because it isnt bashing and one-sided enough. Man you wont find many friends here, you gotta change!!