Longinius 1 Posted April 16, 2002 "Now I honestly don't think that snipers actually go in their pants when they are laying there. They must do something special. I can understand having no choice and going in your pants if you have no other choice. But a I don't think snipers just go in their pants whenver they need to relieve themselves." So, if the sniper is in position, waiting. Been there for five hours, hiding. Watching the enemy. Needs to take a dump, he just ups and leaves? Hardly.... Being a sniper aint that glamerous, when you get down and dirty... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallenPaladin 0 Posted April 16, 2002 When I was in the Bundeswehr two years ago we had to put a lot of things into our backpack when going outdoors. We had to take: - foldable rubber thing to sleep on - utensils to build a tent to sleep in - a towel - your hygiene utensils (soap, toothbrush and so on...) - a complete set of clothing if your worn stuff became wet - your lunch tools - cleaning utensils for your weapon - brushes for your cloth and your other stuff - your water bottle - on top of your backpack you carried your sleeping roll (which was no fun when you got under enemy fire and had to go prone. Everytime I tried to aim over the grassline the stupid sleeping roll hammered onto my helmet and knocked my head back to the ground... ) - and some stuff I certainly forgot In addition to that you carried on your body: - kevlar helmet - item girdles - shovel - reserve magazines - combat knife - (or your water bottle) when not carrying it in your backpack - your weapon All that stuff had the weight of about 30 kg. You can imagine, running when being packed like a carriage-llama is no fun! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted April 16, 2002 Well, what you are supposed to have and what you really bring are seperate issues. When I was in the Homeguard (Swedish National Guard) I usually had... - Sleeping bag (compact kind) - Roleable rubber thing to sleep on - Heaps of socks in plastic bag - A couple of fresh underwear - One T-shirt - One extra shirt - Spoon and fork - Drinking cup - Field stove - Food (usually soup ready to cook by adding water, some chocolate and some kind of REALLY tasty candy. For morale ofcourse) - Toothbrush and paste - Tovel and soap - Toilet paper - Extra first aid kit - Rope - Duct tape (gotta have this! - Small axe - Whetstone If it was cold... - Long Johns - Thick Sweater - Balaclava - Gloves - Thick socks, 2 pair - Winter jacket And in harness... - Compass and map - Knife - Binoculars - Surgical tape + ammo In BDU... - Knife - Notebook and pen - First aid - Thin gloves - Small spoon (to manage stealing a sip of everyone elses food ) And, depending on the type of exercise you could get to carry a weapon (ofcourse) with ammo, additional shovels, axes, stretchers, radio, batteries, ammo, camounet, tent, rope, supplies etc. The best thing about the Homeguard is that you were allowed to have your own gear, as long as it fit in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heckler 0 Posted April 16, 2002 Personally I never go anywhere without: Life size cardboard cut-out of Liza Minelli A large size chocolate bar (if you are attacked by rabid super model types you can ward them off with it - "Get away or I'll make you eat a chunk you waif thing you") A complete collection of peruvian coinage And of course a change of undies in case of accidents Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallenPaladin 0 Posted April 16, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ April 16 2002,09:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">- Food (usually soup ready to cook by adding water, some chocolate and some kind of REALLY tasty candy. For morale ofcourse)<span id='postcolor'> We had V E R Y hard cake. Such stuff that never rots... Tasted like nothing, but you could use it for starting a fire and burn it (no fun!!! ) ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted April 16, 2002 "We had V E R Y hard cake. Such stuff that never rots... Tasted like nothing, but you could use it for starting a fire and burn it (no fun!!! ) ... " Sounds like the Swedish military issue crackers. They look like regular old crackers you buy in the story but they taste like cardboard and are hard as bricks. We called them "pansar kex" which means "armor crackers" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallenPaladin 0 Posted April 16, 2002 Armor Crackers fits very well! When you have shot all your rounds throw your weapons at the enemy. Then attack him with your shovel. And when you loose your shovel, crack his head with an armor cracker. Quote from a fictive army manual Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted April 16, 2002 "Armor Crackers fits very well! When you have shot all your rounds throw your weapons at the enemy. Then attack him with your shovel. And when you loose your shovel, crack his head with an armor cracker. Quote from a fictive army manual" Yeah. Optionally you can place them in your BDU pockets for additional protection against incoming fire Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hilandor 1 Posted April 16, 2002 army training teaches u to be able to use 1 square of toilet paper for ur duties so ur begen isnt full of bogroll instructions 1 take sheet of toilet paper and rip a small part of one corner off 2 stick ur middle finger thru centre main bit toilet paper 3 do ur wiping action with finger thats thru paper 4 pull toilet paper back over finger, cleaning finger whilst doing this 5 take corner peice that was removed to clean under nails Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallenPaladin 0 Posted April 16, 2002 You must be joking!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirate 0 Posted April 16, 2002 well its been quite a time now but as far as i can remember (Trukish inf. standard) this changes acording to where u r stationed of course. -toothpaste-brush -shaving equipment -soap -iron cup (man the drink cools fast in them) -dish with spoon and fork -some socks -extra t-shirt -extra underwear -longjohns -piece of a two person tent also designed to be used as a raincaot(slip your head through a hole and voila -a pancho) -gear to form a camperbed -blanket -rope -food -some small utulity stuff and some meore stuff i cant remember. totally it weighed about 30 kg. also you have your -weapon -helmet -water -ammo -combat knife -a small bag hanging from your belt at your back for extra food (bread mostly) if you were a part of a heavy machinegun team ( 3 pers.) one has to cary the gun 11.5 kg the other carries the stand 15 kg and the third the extra ammo man its been sometime. come to remember Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pukko @ April 16 2002,05:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Scary picture above on you 'attack dykare' guys Is most of your diving gear Swedish made, or do SEAL (if they are your US equivalent) and others use similar stuff (maybe a stupid question considering you wrote that the gear is classified, and therefore unique)?<span id='postcolor'> The gear we used is Swedish. I think that the scuba tanks were German, but that's it. A-dyk is not the Swedish equivalent of the US SEALs. A-dyk's role is a passive one. Our duties in case of war are mostly mining/demining, sabotage and intelligence gathering - not so much shooting around </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also, I dont see any god old 'k-pist' on the picture which I have heard that you use since it works good under water. (using k-pist only) and therefore dont know much about general Swedish assault rifles (AK4, AK5?) and machineguns (KSP 58, 90?), but I suppose that the guys on that picture carries some of those. Can you fire, or even bring them unprotected, under water? Or do you use some kind of waterproof protection for them on missions where you are supposed to engage at land? <span id='postcolor'> During basic training we got to shoot the k-pist a couple of times, and that weapon really sucks IMO. We used mostly AK-5's (light and can even shoot underwater - although you never do that) and KSP-90 (FN Minimi for you not so Swedish guys ). The 58' (FN MAG) jams a lot after getting wet, so we didn't use it a lot. AK-4 is a bit too heavy to be practical to carry. We had polymer/plastic bags for carrying the more sensitive stuff (landmine detonators don't like water for instance). </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Instead of asking more specified questions; what, and how, do you bring other kinds of 'land euipment' when on short respective long time land missions, inserted by diving? <span id='postcolor'> Short land misions: Very little. Just the necessary things that you need for completing the objective. You do your assigment and then you get back to your boat or in some cases sub. A silenced m88 (glock) is usually the only firearm you carry, since you are not supposed to engage any enemy. We always have radios and gps recievers (unfortunately they don't work underwater). Long land missions: We usually join up with kustjägarna or some other unit from the amphibious batallion, so they have all our gear. In the worst case we can carry all our stuff, but that is not a common solution. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now I made my military service as a 'Viggen' mechanic in the Swedish airforce..<span id='postcolor'> I did my basic training and command training with a-dyk, but only a month after that was completed they reassigned me to MUST in Stockholm (kicking and screaming, I might add.. I didn't want to go). The reason they did that was that I had come up with an idea of how to improve the exit hatch on the Västergötland subs and was stupid enough to tell my CO. Anyway, they dragged my ass of to Stockholm and made me learn all possible stupid things about Russian subs. At least I got to learn Russian Well, looking back at it, it was a much more comfy assignement and the people around there were much more normal then my fellow Amf.Bat people. So I guess it wasn't so bad </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They dont have much need of field equipment though <span id='postcolor'> Don't they have som form of survival gear, attached to their flightsuits? Longinius: </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I see two AK-5's and one KSP. Diving with the 58 seems to me to be quite rough, so I guess its a KSP90. <span id='postcolor'> Correct you are. It is a KSP90. FallenPaladin </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Then attack him with your shovel. <span id='postcolor'> No kidding, you have attack-shovels too? That is my by far favourite weapons: SO, you have a tank, ey? But I have my ATTACK-SHOVEL - FEAR MY WRATH! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallenPaladin 0 Posted April 16, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 16 2002,13:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FallenPaladin </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Then attack him with your shovel. <span id='postcolor'> No kidding, you have attack-shovels too? That is my by far favourite weapons: SO, you have a tank, ey? But I have my ATTACK-SHOVEL - FEAR MY WRATH! <span id='postcolor'> That`s no joke! Our shovels are foldable and have very sharp edges. When I had an excercise in Baumholder a squad of our guys shot enemy fake targets (these things that fall down) and when they ran out of ammo, their squad leader gave the command "Shovel free, charge!!!" and they attacked the targets and beat them to the ground In reality all these guys would`ve been killed, but it was rather funny to watch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USSoldier11B 0 Posted April 16, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ATTACK-SHOVEL - FEAR MY WRATH!<span id='postcolor'> Entrenching tool is excellent weapon. U.S. shovel blade can be locked at a 90 degree angle, making it good for hacking. Much better than bayonet. I know a couple dudes that carry short sword on the back of thier rucks. I prefer a throwing hawk (axe). Of course you can get away with carring non-issue items in spec ops units. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted April 16, 2002 "No kidding, you have attack-shovels too? That is my by far favourite weapons: SO, you have a tank, ey? But I have my ATTACK-SHOVEL - FEAR MY WRATH! " Haha..."spade hugg", "spade gräv". Ever tried "yxa gräv" btw? Not a big hit : ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ April 16 2002,13:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 16 2002,13:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FallenPaladin </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Then attack him with your shovel. <span id='postcolor'> No kidding, you have attack-shovels too? That is my by far favourite weapons: SO, you have a tank, ey? But I have my ATTACK-SHOVEL - FEAR MY WRATH! <span id='postcolor'> That`s no joke! Our shovels are foldable and have very sharp edges.<span id='postcolor'> Yes, I know - I only thought that our military was the only one silly enough to give us shovels to attack armed enemies ... So you have it in Germany too.. hehe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ April 16 2002,13:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ATTACK-SHOVEL - FEAR MY WRATH!<span id='postcolor'> Entrenching tool is excellent weapon. U.S. shovel blade can be locked at a 90 degree angle, making it good for hacking.<span id='postcolor'> Yes, but no match for a gun We used an attack-shovel to whack a reindeer during our survival training, and it worked quite fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erex 0 Posted April 16, 2002 We use shovel with one side sharp so its like axe, same as the russians do. So when you are out of ammo is better than knife  But i cannot imagine anything worse that when som1 smash his shovel into me. It must really hurt. BTW i remember that i once beated one IDIOT (shooting with blank cartridge (from Sa.Vz 58 - czceh 7,62 assault rifle against fellows face from less than 3 metres) with the plain side and he doesnt look enjoing it  Hes onyl luck (any my too) was that rest of my friends taky my away from him.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallenPaladin 0 Posted April 16, 2002 BTW who makes the attack-shovel (Spaten, entrenching-tool) addon, ghehehehehehehe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pukko 0 Posted April 16, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 16 2002,13:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Don't they have som form of survival gear, attached to their flightsuits?<span id='postcolor'> Thanks for the info denoir, most interesting. Regarding pilots survival equipment, I'm not all to sure. I can tell you that they do not carry anything visible on their suit. But in the ejection seat (or whats it called in eng) they have some stuff to survive until rescued by the 'ytbärgare' (who is also a 'värnpliktig' ). We had many speciallised 'värnpliktiga' guys around. The majority were Aircraft/Weapons mechanics like me, but also component, towing, material guys etc. The one guy working closest to the pilots were the - damn! I cant remember what he was called - guy who took care of the pilots helmets, suits and equipment. Such a guy should know about thier eq, but I'm quite sure that they do not carry anything essential to survival on their suit. You know after ejecting the pilot takes with him most of the 'rocket chair' except the metal 'chassi', that contains parachute, lifeboat, a gun I think and most certainly some stuff to survive a short while (maybe some Swedish 'snus' ) My military service was quite lame when it comes to ordinary infantry stuff as you can guess. Of the whole 11 months (at 1:st division, F4-Frösön), six weeks was basic training (gröntjänst) and two weeks of Squad leader training (the SL training came as late as after 6 months, and was never practised at all!!!! ). The rest was kind of a relaxed ordinary work. About 3 mechanics (and one tecnician) were assigned one aircraft per day (most of the time 4 or 5 planes per division were active each day), and the pilots flew 4 times from about 8 in the morning to 4 p.m. During the time they flew, we mostly sat in our coffe room doing most unnecessary things, and then runned all that we could to the service line to take care of our assigned aircraft when we missed its landing . Then we had 3 'fiasco exercises' around Sweden that eventually were cancelled because of bad weather, and one succesful 'slutövning' (final exercise). I have never been called in for 'rep övning' since '94. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pukko @ April 16 2002,18:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You know after ejecting the pilot takes with him most of the 'rocket chair' except the metal 'chassi', that contains parachute, lifeboat, a gun I think and most certainly some stuff to survive a short while (maybe some Swedish 'snus' )<span id='postcolor'> Really? I didn't know that. I always thought they jettisoned the chair before opening the parachute. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My military service was quite lame when it comes to ordinary infantry stuff as you can guess. Of the whole 11 months (at 1:st division, F4-Frösön), six weeks was basic training (gröntjänst) and two weeks of Squad leader training (the SL training came as late as after 6 months, and was never practised at all!!!! ). The rest was kind of a relaxed ordinary work. About 3 mechanics (and one tecnician) were assigned one aircraft per day (most of the time 4 or 5 planes per division were active each day), and the pilots flew 4 times from about 8 in the morning to 4 p.m. During the time they flew, we mostly sat in our coffe room doing most unnecessary things, and then runned all that we could to the service line to take care of our assigned aircraft when we missed its landing . Then we had 3 'fiasco exercises' around Sweden that eventually were cancelled because of bad weather, and one succesful 'slutövning' (final exercise). I have never been called in for 'rep övning' since '94.<span id='postcolor'> We had 10 weeks of gröntjänst (basic training) which started the second week after being drafted. This was with kustjägarna. Then we had a test (voluntary) for those who wanted to join the attack divers. The test was 36 hours long and was the most tough thing I have ever done in my life. We were eight that passed of thirty that had voulenteerd from AmfBat 1. Then we went to Stockholm for some additional physical test (pressure tank etc) and another three failed that one. Then we had 15 weeks of diving training, which was pretty fun. During that time we also had classes where we learned about different military hardware. We also had our survival training in Lappland (10 days) during that period. After that we had a month of command training (platoon leader). It was pretty fun since we got to do it with our pals kustjägarna who we outranked by now Then our 'regular' service began. We were on a NATO excersise in Norway (partnership for peace) -pretty fun. Also we were deployed on some submarines for a few weeks to train - not so fun. I was also supposed to go to the US for a couple of weeks training (some form of exchange program), but I got transferred before I got to go. After about a total of nine months I was transfered to the HQ in Stockholm to join MUST where I spent the remaining six months doing very soft stuff behind a desk and learning all possible worthless stuff. It was quite a change - there were very few värpliktiga (enlisted men) there and very few, what I would call real soldiers. Everybody called each other by first name, regardless of rank, and very few people had any field experience at all. But hey - the food was better and my work was very laid back so even if I was dissapointed at first, it turned out quite well. After my time was up, they wanted me to go to the military academy, but I asked them politely to fuck off Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted April 16, 2002 I worked for a while at F 10 (Swedish Airforce). Came in contact with pilots often enough. During peacetime, they dont have any special survival gear. Its not really needed in Sweden cause where ever they go down, help is to be found fairly close by (or will arrive soon enough). So they will not have to bother with extended survival. They have gear for surviving at sea though (lifejacket and raft). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scout 0 Posted April 16, 2002 it really depends on what and where ur operating. we almost never take backpack. there aint nowhere to go Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pukko 0 Posted April 16, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 16 2002,21:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pukko @ April 16 2002,18:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You know after ejecting the pilot takes with him most of the 'rocket chair' except the metal 'chassi', that contains parachute, lifeboat, a gun I think and most certainly some stuff to survive a short while (maybe some Swedish 'snus' )<span id='postcolor'> Really? I didn't know that. I always thought they jettisoned the chair before opening the parachute.<span id='postcolor'> Maybe I wrote it bad: The pilot keeps being strapped to the 'seat' (sitt & rygg dynor, the harness is fitted into them) while the metallic chassi separates after being ejected and before opening the parachute. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But hey - the food was better and my work was very laid back so even if I was dissapointed at first, it turned out quite well. After my time was up, they wanted me to go to the military academy, but I asked them politely to fuck off <span id='postcolor'> Sounds good to get away from the maybe boring but heavy service left from there . Dont know if you have been to Frösön in Östersund, but the view over 'Oviksfjällen' is one of the most beautiful in Sweden. And F4 is placed right on first bench there, its visible from our quarters, restaurant, aircraft platform etc. clearly making it a better time to be there. The food was probably good, but certainly tasted better with that view </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Longinius Posted on April 16 2002,21:43 I worked for a while at F 10 (Swedish Airforce). Came in contact with pilots often enough. During peacetime, they dont have any special survival gear. Its not really needed in Sweden cause where ever they go down, help is to be found fairly close by (or will arrive soon enough). So they will not have to bother with extended survival. They have gear for surviving at sea though (lifejacket and raft). <span id='postcolor'> Maybe they got some more stuff in wartime. One of our 'fiasco excesises' were to F10 Ängelholm - we flew Hercules down on monday, went out and got drunk in the evening, and back on tuesday morning Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IceFire 0 Posted April 16, 2002 Hilandor, I don't get your instructions on efficcient toilet paper use. I don't know if I want you to use details or not. Can you clarify? I didn't understand a bit of that. Or atleast I don't think I did. This can be very useful so that I do not carry soo much toilet paper around. Not just for the military, but for traveling too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
