Very Unprofessional Assassins

[walker 0]

Hi all

For those of you who missed it a team of amateurish assassins chose the wrong spot and method in the most highly CCTV ed country in the world to conduct an assassination.

This has lead to their identities now being splashed across the media from every Arab daily and TV news program to their Police and security services on to Interpol, the western media and even YouTube.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1251260/Team-11-Europeans-killed-senior-Hamas-leader-claims-Dubai-police-chief.html

The country who's assassins they were will now have to conduct a cover blown operation for every single one of them and all their known associates, it probably runs into hundreds possibly thousands of agents and assets who's covers have been blown across the world.

They may well have crippled their own organisation for 20 years.

All to kill some one who could easily have had a car accident.

If it was my Secret Service I would expect the head of the service on a platter and the government to fall.

Their whole team IDed in clear photographs and video. Their trade craft exposed for all to see and analyse. Their methods of obtaining false passports highlighted. Their methods of killing trademarked and signature identified. Now every single similar killing can traced back to them.

They have essentially written, filmed and power pointed a manual on how to counter them selves. Their whole training structure and SOPs now have to be changed.

I cannot believe how stupid they were!

Talk about egg on your face and your bare ass hanging out in the wind.

What a bunch of moronic numpties.

Flabbergasted walker

Edited February 16, 2010 by walker

[TRexian 0]

Actually, their tradecraft was pretty good IMHO.

- I've read that the passports are believed to be "real" (which could mean excellent forgeries), even they aren't their real identities

- the pictures do a good job of hiding their distinguishing features for the most part (although a few of them clearly look like military ID pics)

- they were never together in more than groups of 4

- stayed in different hotels, arrived on different planes, left for different destinations

- you can't escape CCTV these days, all you can do is mitigate what it captures, as here

- the made their hit and got away

That last one is pretty important. ;)

Plus, does anyone really believe that a multi-national, European covert ops team exists? :D Other than Rainbow from Tom Clancy, I seriously doubt it. This was either Israeli, CIA, or maybe Brit. The point is, it certainly wasn't Irish, French or German.

I think much credit goes to the Dubai police authorities. They really invested a great deal of work on tracking down probably hundreds of people on those CCTV feeds to narrow in on these people that "don't fit." Also, credit to them to "expose" these operators. Their covert careers are most likely over.

Dubai can issue arrest warrants, but I doubt anything will come of it.

[walker 0]

Hi all

A stupid assassination plan like this would have got through British MI planning.

You never do stuff like this out in the open.

Taser plus smothering in hotel room with CCTV is strictly amateur hour.

These numpties have been watching too much Hollywood.

Sadly walker

[Takko 10]

If you watch the video at youtube, you can see how

nervous all of them are, I thought these guys are professionals?

[walker 0]

If you watch the video at youtube, you can see how

nervous all of them are, I thought these guys are professionals?

Hi Takko

Yes the body tension was obvious as was the second team rushing into the lift. Clumsy far too close handovers. Hand over face and brimmed hats all over the shop, would be spotted even by a mall security cop, and that's before a software high lighter kicks in. Buddy team methods clear as day. Excited rushing around near the elevators. The guy doubling back in a rush at the airport and getting stuck behind a sign was comical near Cleusau stupid. Fake hotel staff distraction team. Fake blond hair for the girl in the passport photo. Glasses and Grins on passport photos surprised that got past UK pass port control, so I am guessing fakes, the source and methods of which will now be checked over. Same shoes in several ID shifts, heck people were supposed to have leaned not to do that from Le Carre. Failed door security hack for techs analyse. Ditto their comms equipment. Out of country control office with now traceable comms signature. Gait analysis and other methods for full back tracking on any previous missions. A veritable counter espionage goldmine.

*%$~# Their Tradecraft is appalling.

Here have a look at the extended CCTV coverage.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=dubaisesslon&annotation_id=annotation_425824

Like I said

...They have essentially written, filmed and power pointed a manual on how to counter them selves. Their whole training structure and SOPs now have to be changed...

Their key error though was location. That was not the spot to do the deed.

Still shaking head at their stupidity Walker

Edited February 16, 2010 by walker

[Herbal Influence 10]

Thanx for the sources and your analysis and commenting, Walker.

If you watch the video at youtube, you can see how

nervous all of them are, I thought these guys are professionals?

Why do you think that?

Do you think it's really a job for people with brain, heart or nerves?

What do you think - how much is it - to buy a bunch of contract killers?

What "education" do you expect?

What do you think therefore is their price/value?

Are killers intelligent?

Is James Bond a real person?

Is this "James Bond" really smart when you look at him closely?

They are emotionally, legally, morally and intellectually broken persons - with no future and no past, no family bindings, no emotional bindings at all.

Someone who loves does no contract killing.

(I exclude those persons who are personally involved themselves in a fight with Hamas, e.g. have lost beloved persons through Hamas or Kassam-rockets etc. - those do not fall in the category "contract killer".)

"Leon - the professional" is Hollywood, a fairy tale.

The real killer, the real Leon is emotionally that crippled - you wouldn't "detect" any heroism in whatsoever category.

You can find them in every town - close to the drugs and prostitutions scene.

And the prices are dictated by the street ... it's not much.

People with brain never make their hands dirty.

They leave it to underdogs.

Those whose parents didn't have the time or too much alcohol to care for them.

The richer get rich, the poorer get poor - not only financially, but also emotionally - when misused by the "clever" sociopaths whom we did give a lot room and might since a million years.

Just my two cents.

I know it may sound provocative - especially in a milsim-forum.

Many were raised with the Hollywood propaganda on heroism and the big lie of George W. Bush (former alcoholic and afterwards drunken by religion), Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo already damaged their ethics on "heroes" too much.

But I can't stand that Hollywood and "Top Gun" (sponsored by US military by the way) infiltrate their "values" on society and make smeary contract killers to heros.

So, no, I am not at all astonished for that what - as Walker showed it - was an intellectually badly organized murder.

There is no brain in contract killers in reality.

You can be happy that they have not been that dumb as to kill you - by accident.

Same for me. :D

That's the only positive message. :(

Edited February 16, 2010 by Herbal Influence

[walker 0]

Hi all

Passport control should have picked up the Fake UK passports. They were a giveaway Melvyn Mildiner Grinning in particular, Stephen Daniel Hodes tinted sunglasses and grinning.

The photographs you supply with your application must:

show you with a neutral expression and your mouth closed (no grinning, frowning or raised eyebrows)

show you on your own (babies should not have toys or a dummy, and there shouldn’t be other people in the photo)

be in colour, not black and white

be identical

be taken within the last month

be 45 millimetres high x 35 millimetres wide - this is the standard size when you have a passport photo taken in a photo booth or studio (you should not trim a larger photograph to meet this condition)

be clear and in sharp focus, with a clear difference between your face and the background

be taken against a plain cream or plain light grey background

not show you with red-eye

be of you facing forward and looking straight at the camera

not be torn, creased, or marked

be printed on plain white photographic paper

be free from shadows

be taken with your eyes open and clearly visible (no sunglasses or tinted glasses and no hair across your eyes)

be free from reflection or glare on your glasses, and the frames must not cover your eyes – the Identity and Passport Service (IPS) recommends that, if possible, you remove your glasses

be professionally printed (photographs printed at home are not likely to be of an acceptable quality)

show your full head, without any head covering, unless you wear one for religious beliefs or medical reasons

be taken with nothing covering your face – you should make sure nothing covers the outline of your eyes, nose or mouth

be a close-up of your head and shoulders with a recommended head height (the distance between the bottom of your chin and the crown of your head) between 29 and 34 mm

not have any writing on the front or back - except when one of the photos needs to be certified

My use of bold in quoted text

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Passports/Applicationinformation/DG_174152

Grinning photos on UK passports should ring alarm bells as should glasses.

Kind Regards walker

Edited February 16, 2010 by walker

[Pathy 0]

I wasn't aware you were also an expert in assassinations and covert ops Walker. Truly, your expertise knows no bounds.

[walker 0]

Hi Pathy

Stop being a troll. Never shot a real gun in my life. So stop with your strawman suggestions please.

Analysis and indeed comment is open to any one with a brain.

If you think my analysis is wrong then pray amaze us with yours.

Kind Regards walker

Edited February 16, 2010 by walker

[TRexian 0]

Watched the vids, and I still think they did well.

They got in country with aliases (does anyone truly believe those are their real identities?), wore passable disguises when in the operational area, did not draw attention. In fact, when the one guy interacted with the other hotel guest, it was natural and smooth. In fact, for the pervasiveness of the CCTV systems, they generally stayed outside, or nearly outside, the view of the cameras - so they were aware of them, and/or had the brims of their hats blocking much of their face.

They achieved the goal, and escaped. Mission accomplished.

I think much of the criticism takes the more Hollywood view. A deadly sniper shot from a thousand meters? (Too risky.) Radioactive poison in the man's tea? (Too slow.) Kidnap him? (WAY too risky, although tempting for a target of that kind.) In the video where they showed the target, he seemed to maintain his awareness really rather well.

There is no perfect crime. Even for professionals. If they left fingerprints, that's bad (assuming they are really their own fingerprints) ;) but not insurmountable. They are unlikely to have their fingerprints in any official database. What happens after the operation is the problem of their government, not the operators. All the governments can say they have no record (perhaps even in all honesty), so much the better.

Looks like the typical cat v. mouse game of covert ops.

[Pathy 0]

Troll? Not at all. I apologise if I hit a nerve, i'd assumed by the utter certainty of your statements that you actually had some insight into this murky world, insight that the rest of us don't have. I could indeed speculate (or "analyse" if you prefer), however, given that my knowledge of spycraft is limited what i've read in Spy Thrillers and seen on TV programs, I don't think it'd be appropriate for me to say, for instance

*%$~# Their Tradecraft is appalling.

as lets face it, I wouldn't have any idea what constituted good, bad or appalling tradecraft. :)

[TRexian 0]

"Appalling" tradecraft is when the foreign gov't knows you are there and has their own counter-ops guys watching you. ;)

[echo1 0]

Given Israel's multitudinous experience with successful assassinations, I wonder if they really could be behind something so amateurish? Maybe they've lost their special touch.

[niall0 10]

To be fair, they killed the bloke. What more did they need to do, it's easy enough to for a Intel Agency to say 'Wasn't me' and point the blame or just out right blame some Merc's which they probably where.

Plus, SURELY you should also be critising the geezer that got hit. He is a big player in a globaly critised terrorist group/Political party yet let them in with little to no security.

[walker 0]

Hi all

The choice of location should never have got past operational planning.

Plus Side

Got the Kill

Escaped the country

Negative Side

11 Agents IDed plus all past agent and asset contacts; wonder how many will die as a result?

Two assets captured in country (latest news)

Methods and Tradecraft all recorded by enemy.

Political fallout.

Sorry but I do not think one man was worth that fiasco.

To be fair, they killed the bloke. What more did they need to do, it's easy enough to for a Intel Agency to say 'Wasn't me' and point the blame or just out right blame some Merc's which they probably where.

Plus, SURELY you should also be criticizing the geezer that got hit. He is a big player in a globally criticised terrorist group/Political party yet let them in with little to no security.

The agents have been IDed so they will get traced, so deniability out the window.

I agree with you on the targets failure to employ any counter espionage methods, the numpties who missed him the previous times must have been really bad.

The fact that he was supposed to be a key asset and yet had no counter surveillance team for a multi million dollar organization with nation states that suposedly support and train it and that he did not bother to employ any counter surveillance methods leads me to think he was a retired asset or even set up by is own side as a sting to net the assassination teams IDs and embarrass their government.

That Dubai had IDed them and traced all their CCTV footage across multiple hotels and locations and made a TV program about them all within 24 hours; when it took The UK and US months to track the New York and London Bombers CCTV coverage; leads me to think these amateur assasins were suckered into exposing their knickers.

Kind regards walker

Edited February 16, 2010 by walker

[ricbar89 0]

No offence but you're a guy on BIS internet fourms, i think Mossad knows a little better then you.

They knew what they were doing and had there reasons for doing it the way they did.

[Scotty Boy 0]

Walker, i think people are taking exception to your know it all attitude. It's fine to speculate what happened in a jovial way but the way you have is..lets say frustrating.

It may seem bad trade craft to you but it's only now people are seeing a pattern. They did what they went to do. For all we know the ones released to the media could have been some sort of decoy.

You can speculate and speculate but the reality is, it's way above all our heads. We'll never know who committed it and what exact methods were used.

[walker 0]

No offence but you're a guy on BIS internet fourms, i think Mossad knows a little better then you.

They knew what they were doing and had there reasons for doing it the way they did.

Hi ricbar89

Yes I am Sure Richard Nixon's guys in Watergate new what they were doing to.

If I can spot these flaws and weaknesses their opponents definitely will.

The fact they chose that location gives the lie to that "Invincible Mossad" myth. Like the invincible Israeli tanks in Lebanon in the last war.

All organisations have fuck-wits in them the fact these people showed their knickers proves that.

These are the problem that arise when an organisation starts to believe its own myths and its decline soon follows.

The key factor here is they are showing weakness and failures in strategic judgement. If as most of you suspect this is Israel, then failures of strategic judgement and nervous weakness are thing for all to be concerned about. Israel is after all a covert nuclear power with out any International Atomic Energy Agency oversight or control.

When a Nuclear Power, with none of the international oversight that every other nation in the world is signed up to, wobbles; it worries me.

Kind Regards walker

Edited February 16, 2010 by walker

[Scotty Boy 0]

What was wrong with the location, everyone has some sort of CCTV/Surveillance now? What a better country to do it in than one that has a massive amount of business men and tourists from several countries.

[OniKiy 0]

I'm sorry to be a bit of a wet blanket. But trying to understand why they did it or how well they did it is a bit like trying to build a large puzzle with 90% of the pieces missing. With the remaining 10% they have very little detail of the overall puzzle. You're probably going to guess about the end result and have no actual revelance to the full thing because you lack the whole picture.

[Baff1 0]

It's only stupid if their target is still alive and they have beem captured.

Killed him and got away with it? That's smart enough for me.

[ricbar89 0]

I think what you're failing to understand Walker is you’re interpretation of what are flaws and weaknesses are based on limited understanding of organizations like Mossad works.

Who says these identities are real and how where they so easily and quickly tracked down, using the now shown to be fake passports? Who says all these agents will even be used in the field again? Who said they even had associates to risk? Mossad is known for its unorthodox approach to selecting people do these things. Why do they need to worry about people countering their efforts if this is a one off operation?

Who says these guys even work directly for Mossad? Being linked to Mossad doesnt mean you're Mossad.

My point is this goes beyond such simple interpretation.

And Mossad is known for getting the job done, not getting the job done quietly and cleanly, and the job has been done, and their back home without incident.

Edited February 16, 2010 by ricbar89

[walker 0]

What was wrong with the location, everyone has some sort of CCTV/Surveillance now? What a better country to do it in than one that has a massive amount of business men and tourists from several countries.

Hi Scotty Boy

They did the deed in a hotel with CCTV watching their every move. He was out of the hotel and not on CCTV for hours.

If they wanted to be covert then a trip, a fall, a car accident. All could have done it with no CCTV link between agents and the target.

If they wanted to make a statement then a knife or gun or a bomb. Allso could have been done with no CCTV link between the agents and the target.

But a taser and smothered with a pillow is neither "owt nor nowt."

Like I said they had been watching too much Hollywood. It honestly looks like they got the idea from an Alias plot or some such.

Kind Regards walker

---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 PM ----------

It's only stupid if their target is still alive and they have beem captured.

Killed him and got away with it? That's smart enough for me.

Hi Baff1

Only they did not get away with it did they. They got IDed and Two of their Assets have been captured. Check the latest reports.

The Agents cost probably millions to train. If they have any previous missions where they were indicated their opponents will now be able to trace them and their contacts enabling further assets and agents to be discovered. They left a trail of the tradecraft that their opponents will be analysing in far greater detail than anything you see here.

It looks increasingly like their target was either retired or from the speed of the Dubai response a worm on hook.

They have almost certainly caused their nation political embarrassment and possibly strategic damage.

Kind Regards walker

Edited February 16, 2010 by walker

[stgn 39]

Hmm makes me wanna see Munich.

But apparently he was worth risking getting caught.

I have no Idear whether this was a good or a bad assasination. And I don't know whether I would be able to Identify eny of the group should I meet them on the street they could look wastly different in there normal life.

STGN

[TRexian 0]

Another thing to consider - this is the first time that I can recall a gov't "outing" agents like this. Historically, the gov't would work behind the scenes to identify the agents so as to develop counter-intel.

To me, Dubai's actions are unprecedented, not the assassination itself.

Perhaps it is because of the decentralized nature of their gov't - they are basically saying they don't have faith in their own intelligence agencies. So, instead, they are taking a unique kind of approach in denying the sponsoring gov't the further use of these assets.

Part of the reason this seems "amateurish" is because this is a new wrinkle in the game. Gov't usually only release the identities of saboteurs after they've been caught. :D

Edit: oh - and what political fallout? No political fallout until a gov't is established to have been the sponsor. :D