Best orders for combat missions?

[bluesilence 12]

Hello everyone.

I like to play combat patrol missions because they're the most dynamic ones.

The problem is that a lot of times my entire squad gets creamed by a single squad leader with a scoped AK-107. :(

He injures one of my men, and then I tell my squad to wait and seek for cover and I run to drag my injured squadmate out of the danger zone, which often results in myself also being shot. If I send another squadmate to heal the injured, they don't drag him out, but instead they heal him on the spot, becoming sitting ducks for the squad leader's dreadful scoped AK.

The sequence at which issues are ordered in ArmA and Arma2 is quite bizarre. After a lot of years I somewhat learned how to lead a small fireteam consisting only in riflemen, but complex squads with fireteams are still out of my reach.

On combat patrols, when attacking an enemy position from an open area, I order formation line (gives the best front coverage), weapons free, stay alert and keep low. When the enemy is in sight or the team takes fire, I order danger so my men run from cover to cover as the team advances.

I thought this sequence was fine, but my men don't fire at opportunity targets, and most of the times I have to issue attack orders to individual soldiers. To do so, I have to see who is in the best position for shooting at a specific target, select him, issue the order... that can take a very long time :mad:

There are still some orders I don't understand how they work. For example, I often order my machinegunners to lay suppressive fire, so they spray with bullets the general area where the enemy is. But it never does anything. Maybe I need to issue a "look at" order before giving the suppressive fire order? I don't know...

Another question I have since ArmA. The team has been running towards north for some time, so the formation is pointed towards north as well. But suddenly enemies start firing from the right, and I want the formation to point east. If I order to watch east, the only thin my men do is look over their right shoulder, and the formation keeps pointing towards north. How do I order the team to pivot the formation from north towards east?

Another thing I don't really understand what engage at will and disengage do. I think what "engage at will" does is when you order a man to attack a target but it is or moves out of sight, then my man breaks the formation and/or changes position to get the target back on its sights, right? But I have no idea what "disengage" does at all.

And finally, what do I do to tell my men to take cover from, lets say, an enemy APC coming our way, and we don't have AT weapons? You could think that the thing to do is to order them to take cover, but what happens a lot of times is that they go prone next to a wall, BUT ON THE APC'S SIDE!!!! :j:

So, lets sort things:

1.- injured teammates on a clear

2.- letting the men attack targets of opportunity vs issuing individual attack orders

3.- suppressive fire

4.- pivoting formation to face incoming enemy fire

5.- engage at will and disengage

6.- dumb cover

I think I don't forget anything. I know it's a lot of reading, but those are things that are killing my gaming experience the most at this time.

Thanks for the help! Have a nice war, and don't shoot yourself on the foot!;)

[bluesilence 12]

I found this guide for Operation Flashpoint. I wonder why there isn't something like it for ArmA or ArmA 2...

I have another question: is there any way to put the rifle on your back and carry it instead of having it lowered?

[OdmupP37 10]

I would also like feedback and some recognition of this :)

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

Here's what I often do:

Aproach the town in a safe/alert manner, all standing up until such time as I spot enemy movement. Upon sight contact I'll order my men to halt, go into danger mode and move crouched.

I'll then order some, but not all, of my men to advance or just click on a general direction on the map. They will advance at their own pace and engage targets as they see fit. Once the first group has moved forward I'll then move forward with my second group in another direciton to flank enemy positions.

One key thing I always try to do is place my MG gunner/sniper in an overwatch position either on a hill or a major road/intersection and advise him to go prone. This will usually cover a whole sector of a town and allow me to have my back covered.

I believe that suppressive fire doesn't just have the AI spray at locations, but rather they'll be more liberal with ammo while shooting at targets that they see.

[Guest]

One thing I leanred from playing with a squad, is that you should always take your time alot, especially with AI. When there is no contact, always walk, as it gives you much more time to scan your surroundings, and when you do get into a fight, you will instantly be able to steady your weapon.

With the AI, I find the best method is to always keep them in Aware, If I am the leader, and then they just follow me and do as I do. But in general I prefer the AI to be in control, they quickly figure out where to take cover and flank the enemy.

At least, they do it better than I do. :p

[postal vending machine 10]

Engage at will orders your men to approach and engage spotted targets at their own leisure, This is useful for cleaning up or when your formation is comprimised..

Disengage orders your men to cease engage or engage at will mode, This is the default setting for your men, and is critical for remaining in formation..

And suppressive fire doesn't seem to work yet.

[Alex72 1]

No good ideas here then? >> http://ttp2.dslyecxi.com/

[bluesilence 12]

No good ideas here then? >> http://ttp2.dslyecxi.com/

That link is pretty good and has a lot of tactics, but it's more for squads made of human players rather than AI controlled.

I'm not sure how to flank with AI. If i tell the firing element to stop there so i can move with another group to the flanking position, will the seek for another cover if they lose their current cover? Or should i order them to take cover instead? Or should I stay with them and order the flanking element to move to the flanking position? Won't they run on the open and get massacred?:butbut::confused:

Edited February 15, 2010 by BlueSilence

[Zipper5 74]

Maybe my How to Command AI Squads videos will help you out here. That's how I play the game, and how I have always played the game since OFP. ;)

[bluesilence 12]

Maybe my How to Command AI Squads videos will help you out here. That's how I play the game, and how I have always played the game since OFP. ;)

Thanks for that! It's very well executed. I also had some doubts about AI behavior in MOUT, but now they are pretty clear.

[bascule42 10]

Only advice I can give, is keep doing what you are doing and you will refine your squad tactics over time. Or to sum it up "nice..ly" in one word: Practice.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Bascule42
...

[bluesilence 12]

Next problem: flaking is driving me crazy. I divide my squad in teams, each with a fireteam leader, an automatic rifleman, an antitank rifleman, and a normal rifleman.

If I tell one of the teams to flank right (1-1-5), to give the enemy a bigger target and cover a larger area, some men that aren't on that team also move to the right.

During testing, I had tons of problems with the AI.

During the first combat test, I wanted to stay hidden on some trees for an ambush. Put my men in stealth mode, told them to take cover, and finally put them on engage at will but on hold fire. Instead of taking cover next to some trees, they moved all to the same spot on a clear and crouched there.

During the second combat test, I put my men on danger mode, weapons free, engage at will. I ordered them to move to the enemy position, thinking that they would take cover on their way. But no, they ran like crazy on the open, without seeking any cover, eating enemy bullets.

On that same combat, I ordered one of the fireteams to move to some trees to the left of our path and start a flanking assault from there, but they totally refused to move.

During all the combat, the enemies were perfectly lined, perfectly covered and they almost flanked us a few times (but only one man per time).

One of the things I most hate in ArmA and ArmA 2 is the directions system… “Move to that bushâ€â€¦ WE’RE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FREAKING FIELD, THERE ARE A HUNDRED BUSHES!!!!! “Man, 100 meters, to our rightâ€. Oh, you must mean YOUR right, because he’s on MY FRONT. :confused:

Another thing I hate is how well the Russians are armed. Both squad and team leaders have scoped AKs, and they have marksmen on their squads. Only marine fireteam leaders have scoped M-16s, and not a single marksman. :mad:

On the last combat, they kicked our asses without mercy. They had me pinned down so much (they were actually putting suppressive fire all around me!) that I couldn’t move from behind a wall. I told my men (they were on danger mode) to move to the enemy position, but they weren’t moving at all. I tried a lot of things… putting them on aware mode and telling them to stand up, telling them to rejoin formation… but nothing. When two of them finally rejoined me, instead of taking any cover, they stood in the middle of a road. The next second they were on the ground full of holes. We finally took them out, but we lost all but three men, and I was hit at least three times. :(

[Zipper5 74]

Due to the changes BIS have made to the radio system, you'll want to keep "Extended HUD info" enabled. That way it shows you what they want you to target, who they want you to follow and where they want you to move. Otherwise you're just going to get annoyed.

The AI is not doing too well in v1.05, but I'm sure BIS know about it. It's only a recent change that has been introduced which has caused it, and one which BIS can easily rectify in a future patch or beta patch. We just have to wait for said patch. You'll have much more luck then.

In terms of equipment, put down your own units and group them together. Problem solved. You can also change any loadout of any unit you want through the simplest scripting commands.

[bluesilence 12]

So, i'll have to wait for BIS to release another patch to have fully working AI squadmates? :( how much time passed from 1.04 to 1.05?

[Alex72 1]

So, i'll have to wait for BIS to release another patch to have fully working AI squadmates? :( how much time passed from 1.04 to 1.05?

Yes the problem here is that the AI we control goes into AUTO DANGER and they will start operate on their own. They wont listen to your command very well during combat. It was a test made by BIS. It shown now that it doesnt work good enough so we hope to get the old system back where we order them into "DANGER" (COMBAT mode). That way you can tell half of your AI to go into AWARE instead and send them around to flank. They will listen better to your orders in that mode.

When we get the old system back youll see that you can do wonders with the AI.

[bluesilence 12]

Is that the reason why the game isn't automatically patched to 1.05 on steam?

[Zipper5 74]

No. It's because the file size of the patch would have been roughly 5GB if done through Steam. It's done this way so that people don't have to download such a high filesize.

[andromedagalaxe 10]

what's with the "nice" quotes I keep seeing?

[old_painless 183]

Yes the problem here is that the AI we control goes into AUTO DANGER and they will start operate on their own. They wont listen to your command very well during combat.

But we can order them out of DANGER, reversing their state, I suppose? It is not like they are stuck in it, right, or am I misunderstanding something? That way, it is not unplayable per se, but there is just more micro-management required. Ie. the drill would be to remember to set state at first, before ordering anything else. One extra step to manage :(

[bascule42 10]

what's with the "nice" quotes I keep seeing?

This... (post 3840 contains link to the original Nice...read on from there:D))

-----------------------------------------

But we can order them out of DANGER, reversing their state

At the moment they stay in danger mode for so long after a firefight.

Can't wait 'till I can get my squad out of danger mode. It would be nice to able to do the squad command equivalent of "Run Away". At present it's quite annoying when it takes x amount of time for them to realise everyone is dead and we need to move on.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Bascule42

[Count Sessine 0]

No. It's because the file size of the patch would have been roughly 5GB if done through Steam. It's done this way so that people don't have to download such a high filesize.

Zipper, thanks for the vids, I learned a lot from them.

:)

[SteveJA 12]

Yes a run away, or force move would be a nice option, i remeber setting a textbook ambush consisting of 20 people 10 on each side of a v shaped vally, with a road running through it. i had all my men facing the road in a stealth and prone position. two trucks appered which were delt with, then bmp or something enterd the fray, and having little on no AT i decided to move on, so i told my men to move to x the other side of the hill on ethier side, instead of moving out having sucsessfully completed a hit and run, my men ran towards the rampaging bmp!! letting the bmp have a cream party, i literaly walked out of the combat zone looking behind me to see if anyone hadnt deserted me and they all had. ive never seen such determination to ignore self preseviation

[bluesilence 12]

Every time I play this game, it annoys me more.

The first aid system is more a problem than an aid. Without it, if you or another squad member gets hit, he's injured, but at least you can still give and follow orders. But with it, no, you just have that blurry red vision, another squadmate gets command (and he leads the rest of my men to a certain death), and I’m all alone with bullets flying around.

And the AI just doesn't obey orders! They shoot when they shouldn't, and when they should they don't shoot!

What kind of testing does BI put on their products?? Has this game passed any kind of quality control before release!?!?! THIS THING CAN NOT BE CLASSIFIED AS A FINISHED PRODUCT!!!!

Seriously, the more I play it, the more I regret having bought it.:(

Operation Flashpoint 2 might not be as "realistic" as ArmA 2, but at least it's not as buggy.:mad:

[lapa 1]

Zipper, thanks for the vids, I learned a lot from them.

:)

+1

A lot of useful tips to get the most of the AI.

[bluesilence 12]

With or without useful tips, BI's commands system is a 10 years old frustrating mofo, and it needs a deep overhaul, or even a replacement.

After reading some reviews, i think ArmA 2 was rushed to beat OF2 on the release stage, but the game's less obvious details were left behind.

I installed patch 1.05 because it supposedly improved performance, specially on large cities. But the campaign mission where you help retake Chernogosk is a slow bumpy nightmare (even without any combat, my FPS in that city drop from 40 to 25 average). And it has the combat-mode-stuck AI problem....

Should I uninstall the game and stick to 1.04 until 1.06 comes out, ir 1.05 is worth the pain?