Why is this game not more popular?

[wamingo 1]

Nobody here is going to care about the fact that you don't play or the reasons why.

Except that's exactly the purpose of this thread...

[bangtail 0]

Except that's exactly the purpose of this thread...

Wrong :rolleyes:

It's not called "Tell me why the graphics are so bad" or "Why does a 5 year old game play well while ArmA 2 does not".

You better believe that nobody here really cares why anyone else DOESN'T play.

We know most (if not all) of the reasons.

Edited February 8, 2010 by BangTail

[dmarkwick 261]

Well it seems to me if the thread is about why isn't the game more popular, and then someone comes along and says why he doesn't play the game, then that's relevant to the thread.

Just IMO :)

[bangtail 0]

Well it seems to me if the thread is about why isn't the game more popular, and then someone comes along and says why he doesn't play the game, then that's relevant to the thread.

Just IMO :)

And you're entitled to it.

The specific post I was responding to was written by someone who was comparing BF2 to ArmA2 in terms of performance (among other things)

If you think that's relevant, well, like I said, you're entitled to your opinion.

His comments had little to do with the popularity of the game or lack thereof.

Edited February 8, 2010 by BangTail

[dmarkwick 261]

Heh, well the fact is people here DO care about the reasons why he doesn't play, because that is the exact topic of the thread. Why isn't the game more popular? Could be because it doesn't run as well as [some other ostensibly similar game] on PCs of a modest build. Simple, concise, and on topic.

[bangtail 0]

Heh, well the fact is people here DO care about the reasons why he doesn't play, because that is the exact topic of the thread. Why isn't the game more popular? Could be because it doesn't run as well as [some other ostensibly similar game] on PCs of a modest build. Simple, concise, and on topic.

Maybe you do, but I dont think you speak for everyone here any more than I do.

I certainly don't care for his reasons, so I'll amend my previous statement to include only myself. Obviously, if you spend your time worrying about why other people don't play certain games, I'd suggest you have entirely too much time on your hands.

I'm not saying everyone's opinion is irrelevant, simply that in his case, most of the arguments he presents sound more like user error/slow PC than the game itself.

I'll concede that his reasons are reasons not to play the game but so is the fact that it's a stormy night ;)

/end of

Edited February 8, 2010 by BangTail

[dmarkwick 261]

if you spend your time worrying about why other people don't play certain games, I'd suggest you have entirely too much time on your hands.

I'm sure there was some guy on here who said something about assumption being the mother of all fuckups. I could quote about 5 examples of that comment in this thread alone by that same guy. Irony.

People here (in the thread) do care, because that's why they're reading the topic. If you don't care, then why bother with the topic? Which, if I may again point out, is on the question why is ArmA2 not more popular? :)

[bangtail 0]

I'm sure there was some guy on here who said something about assumption being the mother of all fuckups. I could quote about 5 examples of that comment in this thread alone by that same guy. Irony.

People here (in the thread) do care, because that's why they're reading the topic. If you don't care, then why bother with the topic? Which, if I may again point out, is on the question why is ArmA2 not more popular? :)

We're not going to agree so best to move on instead of derailing the thread with foolishness :)

Edited February 8, 2010 by BangTail

[tacticalnuggets 24]

Multiplayer desperately needs to be fixed. The interface is bland, old, and barely functional in terms of allowing users to connect to multiplayer servers. The lobby needs to show how many people are online, list downloadable mods approved by BIS, allow you to download them, and have the ability to organize players into dynamic mini clans. Basicaly groups of players who can communicate and organize with eachother without even joining a server. A chat lobby possible?

Everybody understands why these functions are important in a game like arma 2, right? Infact, these features alone would probably bring life to the multiplayer pool. The lack of these features probably is the main reason why nobody graduates from single player, and its also a big reason for people simply not playing the game anymore. ?

[Bulldogs 10]

In the end I think we can all agree that some people don't like arma 2 because it doesn't run as well as bf2, and at the same time people don't like bf2 because it doesn't run as well as tetris.

[bangtail 0]

In the end I think we can all agree that some people don't like arma 2 because it doesn't run as well as bf2, and at the same time people don't like bf2 because it doesn't run as well as tetris.

LoL

I can agree with that.

[Herbal Influence 10]

Lol Herbal Influence again you are watching only the "big" numbers and still refusing to see how many players are playing per server. Dont you see how fast the numbers of players drop down?

What's the problem of smaller numbers on so many servers?

The ratio of servers/cogamers is simply quite luxurious: During the (european) daytime there are more servers than cogamers.

I do not see anything bad about smaller numbers of gamers per server: To me it's a sign that gamers do play more serious, more strategic - where the strength of Arma2 definitely lies.

To me it's a sign of success: People get to what Arma2 is about.:)

And the overall numbers? They simply don't drop, as far as I can see they slightly rise continously.

Take a look here time and time again. During the day: about a 500 Cogamers and 690 servers, in the evening about a 1200 cogamers and a 710 servers. On Weekends the number of cogamers shown often reach 1700+.

And they will rise in a few weeks again a bit more: When all the cogamers stop their steady creating addons, missions and islands.

There is a big amount of potential online gamers that use all their time only for modding. That's a strange problem.

Arma2 is so incredibly interesting that many people think that online-gaming is only a small part of it.

But soon they realize that there are more mods than testers/players and they will return to online gaming. :o

These statistics don't show how good or bad the game is.

Sure they don't.

I would go on playing BI Games if only one other gamer would be left online.

I really enjoyed a thousands 1 vs 1 crctis in OFP until the release of Arma2.

(I never got really so used to Armed Assault though I like it very much too and had it since release. And I am happy that BI did release a final patch for it shortly.)

There are many reasons why people like to play Arma2 only with mods/addons. Hint: Sound, Flares, AI...:rolleyes:

Yeah, maybe. I find most mods really great.

But your Sound-hint is one example I don't like:

Sound in Arma2 is simply natural and realistic. Sure it's easy to make a more bombastic sound. I prefer realism insofar. And BI cares and stands for that.

Like Maruk CEO of BIS explains here.

Bob Dylans opinion you find in here..

But there are addons that add realism - even more realism than 'realistic' as I consider(-ed) the stamina-effect in ACE2. Maybe they done something about it lately. Didn't test again until now.

Why don't people use Yomas Addon-Updater? And there are other updaters but this just came across my mind and you can see it's supported.

Just wonder if BIS devs have and use tools where they can see + monitor issues and problems with AI? I've read that TotalWar devs have created something similar for their latest game.

Sure they can and they continously increase the capabilities of the AIs.

Just read the logs of the betas released.

I did never play TotalWar as I cannot imagine something great, especially concerning AIs, as BI games are. My fault, perhaps. :o

Edited February 8, 2010 by Herbal Influence

[wamingo 1]

The specific post I was responding to was written by someone who was comparing BF2 to ArmA2 in terms of performance (among other things)

If you think that's relevant, well, like I said, you're entitled to your opinion.

His comments had little to do with the popularity of the game or lack thereof.

And how exactly is performance not relevant to the popularily of the game?

I'd say that's more than a bit relevant.

But look, I think you made your point a while ago...

Do we really want it to be more popular?

In a word, No.

which may also be a bit relevant..

[bangtail 0]

And how exactly is performance not relevant to the popularily of the game?

I'd say that's more than a bit relevant.

But look, I think you made your point a while ago...

which may also be a bit relevant..

I did politely suggest that we drop this but even that has proved too difficult for you ;)

You really can't objectively argue the performance of games that are 5 years apart both graphically and technically. His comments in that respect are not relevant at all.

If ArmA 2 could be commercially popular while maintaining it's uniquity, I'd be all for it but that simply isn't the case. It is a niche game and that uniquity is the reason why it isn't more popular commercially. It's the same reason that Black Shark doesn't outsell MW2 even though it is a far better game.

As with many MMOs (as an example), the minute the devs start listening to the whiny masses, the MMO fails. It's important that BIS "stay the course" and never compromise as ArmA 2 stands alone as the quintessential sandbox military simulator. The day they start trying to compete with the likes of BC2, MW2, DR etc, is the day they will lose their devoted fanbase and become just another face in the crowd.

I sincerely hope that never comes to pass.

Edited February 8, 2010 by BangTail

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

Two things come to mind for "why not?".

1) Marketing - The cost of marketing is extremely high and is getting higher. The big publishers can use the revenues from their constant stream of games being released to push a certain title in the mags and websites and keep the game in front of gamers as needed. BIS produces what, VBS and Arma2 and they are not the same market. A single full page ad in a magazine a month can cost from $5,000 - $10,000 depending on placement. Say they placed in 5 mags and big gaming sites, could easily be $50,000 a month US.

2) Depth of game. What makes Arma2 great is also a weakness when it comes to the "casual gamer". IMO, people want to be told what to do, but not know they are being told what to do. Go here, capture that, rinse repeat. Join a multiplayer game in COD etc, and it's the same thing, everybody runs and caps objectives. You don't have to talk to anybody, you don't have to know anything, you just join, look at the map, and run in that direction. Arma2 is so vast and capable of nearly anything, and people don't take the time to "think". I gave a copy of the game to a former marine friend for Christmas, he loaded it up and enjoyed the campaign, but when it came to mp, he just spawned in and said "I don't know what to do."

Join a Domination server and look at it like you've never seen it played before, you would go, "I don't know what to do."

Every day I learn something new in Arma2. In COD etc, you can learn pretty much everything there is in an hour of play. In Arma2? You're still messing with your gun and vehicles. :)

Some people want to be lead down a path, and others want to find their own way.

Casual gamers want to be lead down a path. And sadly, I feel this is a growing majority.

---------- Post added at 08:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 AM ----------

Multiplayer desperately needs to be fixed. The interface is bland, old, and barely functional in terms of allowing users to connect to multiplayer servers. The lobby needs to show how many people are online, list downloadable mods approved by BIS, allow you to download them, and have the ability to organize players into dynamic mini clans. Basicaly groups of players who can communicate and organize with eachother without even joining a server. A chat lobby possible?

Everybody understands why these functions are important in a game like arma 2, right? Infact, these features alone would probably bring life to the multiplayer pool. The lack of these features probably is the main reason why nobody graduates from single player, and its also a big reason for people simply not playing the game anymore. ?

There are tools and addons available that allow you to do all that you're asking for. I never use the Arma2 lobby interface. Learn to use Yoma's addon sync, and the mods that the server you want to play will download. More servers should use it though.

[bangtail 0]

Luhgnut;1564533']

Casual gamers want to be lead down a path. And sadly' date=' I feel this is a growing majority.[/quote']

/QFT

The "iWin button" generation is growing rapidly :mad:

And I would never want to deprive them of their fun but the problem is that they are never happy unless EVERY game is dumbed down enough for them to "win" in 24 hours or less.

Edited February 8, 2010 by BangTail

[Dead3yez 0]

My biggest turn off is performance optimisation with AIs on the CPU. Playing at a constant 25FPS in multiplayer can get frustrating.

Then it's Chernarus, screw long grass which is EVERYWHERE causing crappy perception. What the hell is wrong with people in Chernarus, have they never heard of lawnmowers or let their livestock out to feed? :(

[Guest]

On a good machine I think the grass looks fantastic, its just on a machine like mine which is a little old, it can get a little demanding wit everything going on.

Multiplayer is the biggest for me, I love grass but turning it on in multiplayer is simply not an option, framerate can't keep up. But then thats not BIS fault, that's my fault for only have 512mb of Vram in an age where 2GB is a must :D

[NoRailgunner 0]

Probably some people here don't like to see that BIS ambitious projects need much more time and qualified staff for betatesting before release.

Gamers usually dont like to wait X months until the game works smooth. They like to see and enjoy the game without the need of mods/addons first.

Ask OFP players and veterans why and how many times they spend playing default campaigns/missions. Ask yourself and others why and how many times they spend playing with A1 and A2 default missions/campaigns. ;)

Wildguess (sorry if wrong): BIS are able to create many great things but in the end they still don't have the time for an overall optimization and Quality Control.

[bangtail 0]

Probably some people here don't like to see that BIS ambitious projects need much more time and qualified staff for betatesting before release.

Gamers usually dont like to wait X months until the game works smooth. They like to see and enjoy the game without the need of mods/addons first.

Ask OFP players and veterans why and how many times they spend playing default campaigns/missions. Ask yourself and others why and how many times they spend playing with A1 and A2 default missions/campaigns. ;)

Wildguess (sorry if wrong): BIS are able to create many great things but in the end they still don't have the time for an overall optimization and Quality Control.

Ask veteran OFP players? I guess you weren't playing OFP at release because there were many, many bugs and problems.

YOU dont like to wait X months etc and you are definitely not alone but you certainly don't speak for all gamers (and certainly not the A2 community).

The best times I had with OFP were with Tonal/SEBNAM etc so again, you are speaking for yourself.

If you aren't happy with A2, go and play something else. I really don't understand why you (and many others) keep coming back and repeating the same complaints over and over again. It hasn't changed in almost 10 years and I doubt it ever will.

Caveat emptor at the end of the day. All it takes is 5 minutes and google and you'll know exactly what you are in for.

Edited February 8, 2010 by BangTail

[dmarkwick 261]

YOU dont like to wait X months etc and you are definitely not alone but you certainly don't speak for all gamers.

The best times I had with OFP were with Tonal etc so again, you are speaking for yourself.

You know, at some stage on a topic like this people make statements that need to be taken in context. I don't expect to have to put little disclaimers at the end of all my statements just because someone somewhere might disagree. Tell you what: At the end of all my statements, I want you to imagine that the words "but of course there are obvious exceptions" at the end.

If you aren't happy with A2, go and play something else. I really don't understand why you (and many others) keep coming back and repeating the same complaints over and over again. It hasn't changed in almost 10 years and I doubt it ever will.

You don't understand it even though it's the core of the thread's topic. Honestly, really, it is :) the thread is about why the game isn't more popular and so people write in with what they think might be wrong with it to make it less popular. The fact that it hasn't changed in more than 10 years is perhaps also right at the core of the question.

Caveat emptor at the end of the day. All it takes is 5 minutes and google and you'll know exactly what you are in for.

Which is all well & good, but it doesn't answer the thread's question.

[bangtail 0]

You know, at some stage on a topic like this people make statements that need to be taken in context. I don't expect to have to put little disclaimers at the end of all my statements just because someone somewhere might disagree. Tell you what: At the end of all my statements, I want you to imagine that the words "but of course there are obvious exceptions" at the end.

You don't understand it even though it's the core of the thread's topic. Honestly, really, it is :) the thread is about why the game isn't more popular and so people write in with what they think might be wrong with it to make it less popular. The fact that it hasn't changed in more than 10 years is perhaps also right at the core of the question.

Which is all well & good, but it doesn't answer the thread's question.

/yawn

/ignore

I did ask you politely to let it go, but as with the other guy, this was obviously too much to ask.

[Guest]

I think we should all stop here ;)

If you are a high quality modder, or have developed a game in the past, feel free to try and give BIS some advice.

However, if you are like me, and don't have any experience in ofp/Arma/Arma 2 development, perhaps try not to talk about what you don't know.

I am not referring to a single person in general, I am just saying, it's not fair to complain unless you can do better yourself.

[dmarkwick 261]

/yawn

/ignore

I did ask you politely to let it go, but as with the other guy, this was obviously too much to ask.

As is the notion that you've somehow got the thread all wrong and have decided that it's about why you think everyone's opinion is irrelevant. I note that while you like to hilariously pretend to ignore these posts, you are compelled to answer them every time. Just take on board the thread's topic, and allow people their opinions without feeling the compulsion to explain to them how irrelevant their opinion is to you.

[bangtail 0]

I think we should all stop here ;)

If you are a high quality modder, or have developed a game in the past, feel free to try and give BIS some advice.

However, if you are like me, and don't have any experience in ofp/Arma/Arma 2 development, perhaps try not to talk about what you don't know.

I am not referring to a single person in general, I am just saying, it's not fair to complain unless you can do better yourself.

Voicing one's opinion one time, even if it is extremely negative, is totally on point IMHO.

Unfortunately, what we get on this forum is the same people (many of them claiming they don't even play the game anymore) returning to repeat the same complaints over and over.

Some people just love to complain ;)

Edited February 8, 2010 by BangTail