Design a computer...

[echo1 0]

I like how selective Madus Maximus is about what arguments he choses to refute. His silence says it all.

[Madus_Maximus 0]

I like how selective Madus Maximus is about what arguments he choses to refute. His silence says it all.

Or maybe I have other things to do?

[sudayev 27]

Apple laptop haven't had Intel GPU's for over a year lol. Best update yourself there.

Have had before and costed thousands compared to non apple laptops with ati or nvidia cards inside.

[Madus_Maximus 0]

Have had before and costed thousands compared to non apple laptops with ati or nvidia cards inside.

Thsouads? The last time they had an Intel GPU in any of their machines it cost $999, all the higher end machines had discrete GPU's or the vastly superior (to the Intel) NVIDIA GeForce 9400M GPU/Chipset. Hardly "thousands". All their higher machines have always had discrete GPU's.

[Fudgeblood 10]

Or maybe I have other things to do?

And those others things are simply arguing with someone else?

You seem to be like a typical Mac user, to be honest.

[BittleRyan 10]

Lovely Conversation here...

What was the topic again? I forgot.

[Fudgeblood 10]

Lovely Conversation here...

What was the topic again? I forgot.

Might've had something to do with wrestling? Not sure. :p

But Sertorius21's set-up was nice.

[echo1 0]

Or maybe I have other things to do?

Like respond to the weak arguments so you don't have to concede that you're wrong?

Edited January 21, 2010 by echo1

[Madus_Maximus 0]

I don't care what systems people use, it's totally up to you, what I can't stand is the sheer ignorance people present in their arguments. What does it matter to you that someone likes a different kind of computer to you? Do you also bash on people who like a different brand of car you drive? Or maybe a different brand of bread you eat?

I only replied to the comments that were clearly ignorant of how things really are. Most people who hate or bash on Macs have never used one beyond a quick mess around at an Apple Store, or those crappy ones at school/college/uni. News flash! All public computers are prone to sucking! Think how many people use them daily and mess around with them.

A lot of peoples dislike of them comes from simply not being used to them. They have a Windows machine at home and have grown up with it. They'll use Windows in most things they do, but then come to use a Mac for one small aspect of their daily life (comparitively) and dislike it because it's different. That's normal, but people love to make blanket black and white statements these days with nothing in between. It's a case of "Oh it's different so it must suck!", it should be a case of "Oh it's different, why? Maybe they're onto something".

I'm sorry if I've somehow pissed some of you off for liking Macs, but really, why the hell should you care? I choose to like something you don't, big deal, move on. I hate it when people spout bull about something they don't know about, only what other's have told them rather than what they've personally experienced. If you don't like Macs, good for you, I don't care, you use the best tool for the job at hand and what you're comfortable with.

Not everything is about hardware, which is what pretty much every single rebuttle to the Mac has been in this thread. What about Windows? What's so brilliant about the platform itself? Something many people forget is that most Mac users were once Windows users, they moved for a reason, Windows. I love kick ass hardware, but I also like good software, something Microsoft tend to be not all that good at dispite being a software company. Windows 7 however is great (as far as Windows goes) but still not up to the standards of OS X and even some distros of Linux (I'm on about the actual OS here, not the applications that run on top of it, they have nothing to do with the OS itself, it's up to the software developer what platform/s to support).

Also, on a side note: We're in a niche market. We're in a niche market of a niche market. PC gaming is a niche, no matter what you like to think of it, it's not like the glory days where all the best stuff came out on PC and gave us loads of features all nicely implemented with good levels of complexity to test our brains. Now it's all consoles. We're also in a niche in that we play "simulations", or at least something pretty damn close without having to spend vastly more for the real deal like VBS2. PC gaming is getting less and less relavent by the day, and so is all this awesome hardware we use. You can play the most demanding games on the best rigs from 2-3 years ago. Back in the day that wouldn't be the case, you'd need to be at least a year out of date to have decent performance in the heavy new games. Think about it. Look at the sort of machines being sold these days. Most are cheap as chips very low powered netbooks or laptops. They're not gaming machines by any stretch. If you want better quality parts and a good build quality then you pay for it, or you build your own, but we're getting into niche again. Most people don't build their own machines, either becase they can't or they just don't want to.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Madus_Maximus

[bunnyman 10]

Well this is interesting for me, I have always been a PC user, but I admit I have no clue about hardware, software or any of it. But the shite I have gone through with PCs is unbelievable, and of course you could then say that's because you know nothing blahblah.

Fine, I don't have the time- I like stuff that works for me. When my wife first bought her macbook pro I just laughed. So much money for a flashy laptop, all those weird ways of doing things. I just couldn't get my head around it and resorted to the 'women' card. When I actually (after some months) started using it bit by bit for this and that, I started to realise how amazingly user friendly and well-designed it was. Not just the look or the weight, but literally everything in detail.

Now, I realise that a lot of you could fire all kinds of statistics and geekery about rigs and the like, and frankly I will laugh at your TV tans... but I know what I like, it works and I am impressed. The macs that I have since then come across and spent time with have continued to impress me. I put up with all the crap of PCs because I thought that was all there was on the market, even brand new spanking silent PC gaming flashy bastard PCs that my mates have- and guess what- they look nice and quick but are they reliable? No. Same windows problems, same issues as always.

The Mac has never let my household down.

After some proper scouting, I decided to get me a 27" Mac, should be arriving in a week or two.

I have been looking around the net at peoples discussions over whether it is a good gaming machine or not. It is quite mixed, so it makes me nervous. Some say it is great and some say it is mediocre and will quickly date. I am expecting a lot because of the price, as most of you have said- it is very dear. It doesn't have the same stats as your man Madus there, 3.06 hz intelcore2 duo readeon HD 4670 256MB. So I will have to let you know how it performs with Arma 2, I see it as being a decent test since so many people have put the shits up me!

[norsu 180]

With a 27" iMac you have to remember that the native resolution is sky high which will require even more gaming muscle for ARMA2. There's of course always the option to play the game in windowed mode and naturally you need a Windows boot to start the game.

I've been thinking of getting a powerful Mac too but since I mostly use programs that require Windows to run, so far I haven't been able to justify such an investment.

About Windows 7, I haven't used it at all so far but it's most likely going to be my next OS anyway. Is it more stable and more intuitive to use than previous releases and also does it have lots of problems with older games?

Edited February 12, 2010 by Norsu

[Herbal Influence 10]

I lost a BI games cogamer-friend for he went over to Apple.

Arma2 didn't work on it for he can only adress too few RAM with it, he really tried it.

OFP did work very good.

Maybe it wasn't Boot Camp, maybe something called Parallels.

But Boot Camp is proprietary software.

How much does it cost?

I can play OFP on my Linux PC using WINE but the overall performance is low and it's quite difficult to upgrade the game.

I was quite surprised when Apples Computers are mentioned first in an Arma2-PC-Design thread.

This thread was mislead from the beginning because the use of the word "design" ;-)

I think one of the cheapest possibilities is the rig I use (see sign.):

58 Euro Mainboard (at time of my buying: 75 Euro)

78 Euro Graphiccard (at time of my buying: 100 Euro)

55 Euro CPU (at time of my buying: 65 Euro)

55 Euro Powersupply (at time of my buying: 55 Euro)

137 Euro 22'' TFT-Monitor (at time of my buying: 249 Euro)

8 Euro Keyboard

6,95 Euro Mouse

37,00 Euro DVD

47,00 Euro 3 GByte RAM (I think 800 Mhz DDRII)

75 Euro Windows7 (whereas I still have XP for gaming)

556,95 Euro

Did I forget something?

(all roughly estimated)

Did this answer the question of the Threadopener? Nah. I was just in a talking mood.

[bunnyman 10]

I dunno herbal, Macs are still kind of relevant. Although the whole discussion did spiral out lol

For me though, the iMac is definitely a consideration since I could never have the knowhow to design my own PC, I would always go for something I thought was going to do the job for me if you know what I mean. I wonder if there are any package PCs that can compare to these genius rigs you lads come up with?

[-Snafu- 78]

I wonder if there are any package PCs that can compare to these genius rigs you lads come up with?

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=43

Overclockers UK. That's where I got the parts for the PC I built. First time I built one and nothing went wrong...so far!

They also offer ready built systems and bundles, just select Intel or AMD Gamer from the side menu, select a PC and you can change some parts about if you want.

About Apple stuff, I looked into getting a laptop but the high price and lack of gaming options I went with windows.

[echo1 0]

Well this is interesting for me, I have always been a PC user, but I admit I have no clue about hardware, software or any of it. But the shite I have gone through with PCs is unbelievable, and of course you could then say that's because you know nothing blahblah.

Fine, I don't have the time- I like stuff that works for me. When my wife first bought her macbook pro I just laughed. So much money for a flashy laptop, all those weird ways of doing things. I just couldn't get my head around it and resorted to the 'women' card. When I actually (after some months) started using it bit by bit for this and that, I started to realise how amazingly user friendly and well-designed it was. Not just the look or the weight, but literally everything in detail.

but I know what I like, it works and I am impressed. The macs that I have since then come across and spent time with have continued to impress me. I put up with all the crap of PCs because I thought that was all there was on the market, even brand new spanking silent PC gaming flashy bastard PCs that my mates have- and guess what- they look nice and quick but are they reliable? No. Same windows problems, same issues as always.

The Mac has never let my household down.

After some proper scouting, I decided to get me a 27" Mac, should be arriving in a week or two.

I have been looking around the net at peoples discussions over whether it is a good gaming machine or not. It is quite mixed, so it makes me nervous. Some say it is great and some say it is mediocre and will quickly date. I am expecting a lot because of the price, as most of you have said- it is very dear. It doesn't have the same stats as your man Madus there, 3.06 hz intelcore2 duo readeon HD 4670 256MB. So I will have to let you know how it performs with Arma 2, I see it as being a decent test since so many people have put the shits up me!

ArmA 2, or indeed just about any other game won't run on Mac OS X, so you'll have to install Windows on your Mac... and as Windows on Mac is no better than Windows on PC, most of what you said is kinda invalidated.

Now, I realise that a lot of you could fire all kinds of statistics and geekery about rigs and the like, and frankly I will laugh at your TV tans...

And why, for the love of God, do Mac fans always have to resort to ad hominem attack every time they talk about how their machines are better than regular PCs?

[Guest]

I went on the Mac website once, and I built a custom PC. I selected the best, of the best, of the best compnent for everything.

Guess how much?

£35,000

Exactly. Mac fails, imo. I also had to use various mac machines at college, they absolutely are horrible. I will agree they are more wideley used as a "Profesional" systesm, for example, when you go in to work all the computers are Macs.

Other than that, they are horrid. And the mouse sucks. The pricing is ristonculous. And I don't know why any human on this planet would buy a dell or an Alienware either. They are just "brands" to steal your money. If you don't know much about PC's, there are plenty of specialists who will happily build you a full blown gaming rig with great parts, for an extremely cheap price.

And of course, If you do know how, yo ucould spend a little less and build it yourself. Either way, how you gonna custom build a PC that fits into a screen, is smaller than a laptop, and has no wires?

Urghhh.

My opinon.

[Herbal Influence 10]

I dunno herbal, Macs are still kind of relevant. Although the whole discussion did spiral out lol

For me though, the iMac is definitely a consideration since I could never have the knowhow to design my own PC, I would always go for something I thought was going to do the job for me if you know what I mean. I wonder if there are any package PCs that can compare to these genius rigs you lads come up with?

If you are from Germany, try alternate.

They even have a PC Builder software online but you can also ask for a gaming pc etc. etc.

Well - I tell you what.

It's a lot of intelligent marketing causing this.

Look how the idiotic Segway scooter is intensely advertised everywhere.

Apple has it's fingers in that too.

In Germany police officers suffer from too less movements - their fitness is too bad - and at the same time government considered to buy this idiotic kind of wheelchair for much more than 3.000 Euros each for them!

Great marketing!

I don't say Apple is a bad personal computer - quite the contrary.

I many ways it's better.

In terms of usability for example.

Like a gaming console. :p

You must see it's easier for them to be "better", but only somehow (!):

The lack of freedom (only one hardware architecture, reduced possibility of inserting third party hardware elements, especially the amount of software) is the price you have to pay.

What I can't stand is the bemuttering from Apple that leads to things like this.

What I also definitively don't like about Apple is their cooperation with Intel.

About Intels immoral behaviour see here.

It's a kind of console compared to a Microsoft PC.

Real freedom I do have with Linux on my PC and todays usability with e.g. Ubuntu 9.10 is extreme at least better than WindowsXP in many, many regards. Not to speak of security, reliability (no secret home phoning, full license incl. OfficePackage, all for free).

Lastly I read in a german IT online journal (www.Heise.de) that iPhone-users would suffer from a Stockholm Syndrome.

This is something that I also see with Apple-users ... but thats ALLLLL too much offtopic. :o

[Guest]

Wrong thread LOL!

[echo1 0]

I went on the Mac website once, and I built a custom PC. I selected the best, of the best, of the best compnent for everything.

Guess how much?

£35,000

Exactly. Mac fails, imo. I also had to use various mac machines at college, they absolutely are horrible. I will agree they are more wideley used as a "Profesional" systesm, for example, when you go in to work all the computers are Macs.

Other than that, they are horrid. And the mouse sucks. The pricing is ristonculous. And I don't know why any human on this planet would buy a dell or an Alienware either. They are just "brands" to steal your money. If you don't know much about PC's, there are plenty of specialists who will happily build you a full blown gaming rig with great parts, for an extremely cheap price.

And of course, If you do know how, yo ucould spend a little less and build it yourself. Either way, how you gonna custom build a PC that fits into a screen, is smaller than a laptop, and has no wires?

Urghhh.

My opinon.

This HAS to be a troll.

[Zipper5 74]

Richie's not a troll. Most PC users will agree with his statement, including me.

But let's not start a Mac vs PC war on these forums too.

[gulag 10]

The pricing is ristonculous. And I don't know why any human on this planet would buy a dell or an Alienware either. They are just "brands" to steal your money. If you don't know much about PC's, there are plenty of specialists who will happily build you a full blown gaming rig with great parts, for an extremely cheap price.

My opinon.

Here PC's are more expensive than in the west, and this is one of the best solutions, I blend components then I built myself without any qualification in this area (for me is a miracle that it works:eek:), in 2 years I changed 4 processors, 2 motherboards, 2 psu, 4 video cards, I have not broken any of them, but I resold them.

[NeMeSiS 11]

This HAS to be a troll.

What? I 100% agree with him, and would say that he's holding back.

[echo1 0]

What? I 100% agree with him, and would say that he's holding back.

Ok, let's take it from the top. Bare in mind that I usually have no time for Apple products whatsoever. (Although I do kinda want a Mac Pro for use as a Linux/BSD server, but that's another story...)

I went on the Mac website once, and I built a custom PC. I selected the best, of the best, of the best compnent for everything.

Guess how much?

£35,000

Exactly. Mac fails, imo.

This was the thing that led me to the troll comment as it is patently idiotic. I mean, for one, without giving a low-down of what the machine was capable of, the price means absolutely nothing. I can go on Dabs and build myself a PC that costs £40,000. What does that prove? Zilch.

To elaborate further, I'm going to assume here that this was in reference to the high end Mac Pro. Now, the Mac Pro is a high end workstation, not a game's machine. It has a lot of features that you aren't going to see in your 'pimp my e-penis' machine, including but not limited to -

1) FB-DIMM RAM

2) Dual CPU motherboard

3) Hot swappable drives.

4) The ability to support something like four independent PCI-E graphics cards.

In addition, having done something similar to this myself, Im going to guess that he probably enabled some of the more exotic server-related options for the Mac Pro, such as multi-channel hardware RAID cards, and fibre channels connections, either of which are going to ludicriously expensive (i.e. the price of a good laptop) irrespective of where you get them from.

Point here is that comparing a workstation to a games machine is an apples-oranges comparison. Find me a truly equivalent system with all the same trimmings that is significantly cheaper and I'll change my mind. Till then...

This is followed by a string of assertions that Macs are horrible, then -

And the mouse sucks.

Ever use a computer that had a good out-of-the-box mouse? No, I haven't either.

The pricing is ristonculous. And I don't know why any human on this planet would buy a dell or an Alienware either. They are just "brands" to steal your money.

So Richie, do you grow your own food so that those branded stores don't steal your money? Or, like the vast majority of Dell purchasers, do you find that the convenience of buying food from the shop justifies the cost?

If you don't know much about PC's, there are plenty of specialists who will happily build you a full blown gaming rig with great parts, for an extremely cheap price. And of course, If you do know how, yo ucould spend a little less and build it yourself.

FACT: 99% of PC users don't need some pimped out penis extender. In these cases, a basic model will suffice perfectly. From experience, I find that companies like Dell or HP sell basic PCs that are much better value for money than if you built it yourself.

With Apple, you do pay for what is definitely a more well-rounded computing experience. You may not like it, I know I don't, but it works for some people and I'm not going to argue with that.

Sure, building PCs is great if you need a gaming machine and want to save money, but there's definitely an argument to be made for buying premade.

Either way, how you gonna custom build a PC that fits into a screen, is smaller than a laptop, and has no wires?

What's that all about?

My opinon.

Is 'ristonculous', apparently.

Edited February 12, 2010 by echo1

[Bulldogs 10]

For under $2500 Australian I could build a very powerful gaming machine, under US$2500 I could build a supercomputer that could handle difficult things, like playing chess.

[bunnyman 10]

I'm aware you need windows on the mac to run pc games, well aware of it, was never in question... but still I reckon Mac must have some value. RE: my original post

Very few of you have ANYTHING positive to say about Macs at all