Mid east

[Bernadotte 0]

Anyone who would like to know what the USA's real plans are for the ME should always pay attention when the Whitehouse addresses the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).

This is some of what Colin Powel told them yesterday:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Settlement activity by Israel is inconsistent with President Bush`s two-state vision."

"It's time for the entire international community to insist that Iran end its support for terrorism.  Tehran must stop pursuing weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver them."

"Armed Iraqi Shiite Muslim forces supported by Iran are inside Iraq and will be considered combatants if they interfere with U.S. or British forces in the country."

"Syria now faces a critical choice.  Syria can continue direct support for terrorist groups and the dying regime of Saddam Hussein, or it can embark on a different and more hopeful course.  Either way, Syria has the responsibility for its choices and for the consequences."<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 30 2003,06:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 30 2003,07:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why doesn't the USA allow Israel to participate in the invasion of Iraq?<span id='postcolor'>

Because Kuwait said they would close their duty-free shop at the airport to everyone if we came.<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe France should give up its permanent seat on the Security Council and take over the duty-free shops of Kuwait, instead.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 31 2003,08:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe France should give up its permanent seat on the Security Council and take over the duty-free shops of Kuwait, instead.<span id='postcolor'>

That's a great idea, except that if France runs Kuwait's duty free, Israel will definitely not go!

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 31 2003,08:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyone who would like to know what the USA's real plans are for the ME should always pay attention when the Whitehouse addresses the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).<span id='postcolor'>

Does that mean that we should NOT pay attention to Whitehouse addresses not made at AIPAC meetings or is your anti_Israel slip showing again?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 30 2003,07:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why doesn't the USA allow Israel to participate in the invasion of Iraq?<span id='postcolor'>

Since you still seem to take your own question seriously, the simple answer is this is not Israel's war, though we do side with the coalition and I'm sure allow use of our port and air facilities, should coalition forces need it.

In addition, Israel would have a slight problem as we have our own war to deal with unfortunately.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 31 2003,08:o3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 31 2003,08:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyone who would like to know what the USA's real plans are for the ME should always pay attention when the Whitehouse addresses the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).<span id='postcolor'>

Does that mean that we should NOT pay attention to Whitehouse addresses not made at AIPAC meetings or is your anti_Israel slip showing again? <span id='postcolor'>

Didn't Fortune magazine rank AIPAC as the 2nd most powerful lobby in Washington DC, during the 90s?  Can you name any other country, besides the USA, where a lobby for a small foreign state could become stronger than the lobby representing the nation's own elderly?  And AIPAC is just one of several pro-Israel lobbies.  These are not "anti_Israel" observations.  That such a perverse situation could develop should be a source of great pride for Israel, while a source of great shame for Americans.  But until this situation changes, Whitehouse speeches to AIPAC about the Middle East will continue to get my attention.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 31 2003,08:o6)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 30 2003,07:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why doesn't the USA allow Israel to participate in the invasion of Iraq?<span id='postcolor'>

Since you still seem to take your own question seriously, the simple answer is this is not Israel's war, though we do side with the coalition and I'm sure allow use of our port and air facilities, should coalition forces need it.

In addition, Israel would have a slight problem as we have our own war to deal with unfortunately.<span id='postcolor'>

Thank you for taking the question seriously.

Iraq shot Scuds into Israel, not Australia.  I would think it is much more Israel's war than Australia's or the UK's or America's or any other nation currently represented in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Are you saying that Israel has not even offered fighting forces?  I thought Israel's offer was turned down by the US.  In fact, I thought the US had to plead with Israel not to get directly involved.  Instead, you make it sound like Israel had to turn down the Americans.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 31 2003,10:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Iraq shot Scuds into Israel, not Australia.<span id='postcolor'>

Whether Israel should have retalaited in the past is an interesting issue, still being discussed here in light of the current war.

Shamir at the time decided not to respond, in order for the coalition, consisting of so many Arab countries, not to break apart because us Zionist infidels had responded.

Besides, Iraq got a pretty good whopping back then anyway from the coalition.

No one here had talked about hitting Iraq after the first Gulf War. It was over and done with.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> I would think it is much more Israel's war than Australia's or the UK's or America's or any other nation currently represented in Operation Iraqi Freedom.<span id='postcolor'>

As I said, we are taxed with our own war here.

You fogot to take into consideration that supporters (even if passive) of the current coalition include Kuwait, Dubai, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, etc. So the same issues of 12 years ago about not rocking the boat apply to Israel today.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Are you saying that Israel has not even offered fighting forces?<span id='postcolor'>

Israel has offered intelligence information but to the best of my knowlegde, has not offered to send over anything larger than, say, the Polish SF contingent.

Frankly, we are currently still in a status of extra people called up into reserves here because of both the PA and because of the (subsiding but not dismissed) threat from Iraq.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I thought Israel's offer was turned down by the US.<span id='postcolor'>

Again, whatever the offer, big or small, would have been turned down, for the reasons mentioned above.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In fact, I thought the US had to plead with Israel not to get directly involved.<span id='postcolor'>

You must be fanatsizing.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Instead, you make it sound like Israel had to turn down the Americans.<span id='postcolor'>

The only thing the US had to beg Israel for is not to get involved should Israel be attacked. That's the only main issue that was discussed.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 31 2003,09:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In fact, I thought the US had to plead with Israel not to get directly involved.<span id='postcolor'>

You must be fanatsizing.<span id='postcolor'>

Fanatsizing?  I can almost imagine a definition for that word.  

Thanks for the clarifications.

[Die Alive 0]

The Palestinian Authority has renamed the main town square in the Jenin refugee camp after the Iraqi suicide bomber who killed four American soldiers

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The name of the plaza in Jenin was changed from Mosque Square to the Na'mani Square during a rally Sunday attended by scores of camp residents and Palestinian officials, sources said Monday.

"We want to honor the brave Iraqi officer who carried out the first suicide attack against the American and British occupiers," a senior Palestinian official in Jenin told The Jerusalem Post.

"We hope there will be more suicide operations in the coming days."

The Jenin refugee camp has been known as a hotbed for extremist Palestinian groups responsible for a numerous suicide attacks in Israel.

Camp residents proudly describe the camp, which is home to some 12,000 refugees, as the capital of suicide bombers.<span id='postcolor'>JP login req

*sniff* Rachel Corrie would of been proud *sniff*

-=Die Alive=-

[interstat 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Anyone who would like to know what the USA's real plans are for the ME should always pay attention when the Whitehouse addresses the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).

This is some of what Colin Powel told them yesterday:

Quote

"Settlement activity by Israel is inconsistent with President Bush`s two-state vision."

"It's time for the entire international community to insist that Iran end its support for terrorism. Tehran must stop pursuing weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver them."

"Armed Iraqi Shiite Muslim forces supported by Iran are inside Iraq and will be considered combatants if they interfere with U.S. or British forces in the country."

"Syria now faces a critical choice. Syria can continue direct support for terrorist groups and the dying regime of Saddam Hussein, or it can embark on a different and more hopeful course. Either way, Syria has the responsibility for its choices and for the consequences."

<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, just watched on Channel 4 news about Powell and his speech this evening. Reveals America's true intentions for the Middle East, dictate to Arab states how they should run their country, 'mission creep' as some may call it. The Pentagon spokesman on CH4 news seemed to reveal pretty much how America sees itself as some moral teacher to these 'barbaric, backward and illerate' arab states, good old Uncle Sam is coming to spread freedom and justice!

Sounds like the colonial attitude that we British had to the so-called 'barbaric, backward and illerate' african people's in the 19th and early 20th Century.

Just becuase you do not agree with a states system of government does not allow you to attack or try to intervene in that state directly or indirectly. If every country decided they didn't like how others ran their states then what situation would we be in?

O.K Syria supporting terrorism is a well known fact, but that does not necessarily mean one has the automatic right to attack a state. I am sure past American administrations have supported terrorist groups, shall we say the Mujhadeen in Afghanistan. These were classed as terrorists by the Russian state.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Die Alive @ Mar. 31 2003,21:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">*sniff* Rachel Corrie would of been proud *sniff*<span id='postcolor'>

You seem to be really hung up on Rachel Corrie.  Here's another article that might help you deal with it.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (interstat @ Mar. 31 2003,22:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">O.K Syria supporting terrorism is a well known fact, but that does not necessarily mean one has the automatic right to attack a state.<span id='postcolor'>

Next we'll be seeing Colin Powell warning Israel to end its occupation of Syrian territory (Golan Heights) or Syria will face severe consequences.  

[interstat 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Next we'll be seeing Colin Powell warning Israel to end its occupation of Syrian territory (Golan Heights) or Syria will face severe consequences.

<span id='postcolor'>

Nah, he would have to link Israel with Al-qaeda which ain't gonna happen,

Colin Powell: 'We've got a new policy Mr President. Anyone who with the name Al, or organisations with the letters A & L in them will be attacked'

Bush: 'Good thinking colin, while your at it ask Cheney if some of his oil buddys are interested in some oil rights.'

[Othin 0]

Actually, out of everyone in the administration, Colin Powell is probably the least likely to say or do that sort of thing.

[interstat 0]

I was joking of course.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (interstat @ April 01 2003,01:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Colin Powell: 'We've got a new policy Mr President.  Anyone who with the name Al, or organisations with the letters A & L in them will be attacked'<span id='postcolor'>

Reports from Washington indicate that former Vice President Gore is hiding in a cave somewhere in the Apalachian Mountains.

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (interstat @ April 01 2003,00:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyone who with the name Al<span id='postcolor'>

Well then, you should think twice about walking around singing "you can call me Al" by Paul Simon

[theavonlady 2]

<span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>A</span>von <span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>L</span>ady

[Bernadotte 0]

Colin Powell spoke to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee on Sunday.  Yesterday it was Condoleezza Rice's turn to address AIPAC.  So far they've each made some very brave comments.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"The U.S. road map for setting up a Palestinian state by the end of 2005 is not negotiable and that Israel must play its part to pave the way."

"...it is not a matter of renegotiation. It can be commented on by the parties."<span id='postcolor'>

Meanwhile, Israel's foreign minister made a statement of his own after his 30 minute meeting with George Bush:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Israel was adopting his [bush's] view of a settlement.  We hope that we will be able to open the negotiations, but unless terror attacks stop, there won't be any possibility to go forward."<span id='postcolor'>

Not negotiating peace until there is peace?  Demanding peace as a precondition for peace talks?  Yeah right.  Not even George Bush will fall for that old game anymore.  The "Road Map Plan" constitutes the bulk of a peace settlement that will now be imposed on Israel/Palestine and as Condoleezza Rice said yesterday, it is not negotiable.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ April 01 2003,11:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not negotiating peace until there is peace?  Demanding peace as a precondition for peace talks?  Yeah right.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm always happy to see people on the opposite side of the spectrum agree that the Oslo Accords are dead, null and void. Thank you.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 01 2003,10:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ April 01 2003,11:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not negotiating peace until there is peace?  Demanding peace as a precondition for peace talks?  Yeah right.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm always happy to see people on the opposite side of the spectrum agree that the Oslo Accords are dead, null and void. Thank you.<span id='postcolor'>

As I've said many times, the greatest obstacles to peace for several decades have been Israeli settlements and Arafat.

Israeli settlements were not addressed by Oslo at all.  That's why I've always regarded the Oslo Accords as stillborn.

Arafat never was and could never be the Ghandi that his people deserved.  After recognising Israel's right to exist before the UN in 1988, he should have retired.  But unfortunately, he was never going to step aside while in exile.  Oslo partially solved that.  Unfortunately, Clinton invited him to the Whitehouse far too many times.  That and his Nobel peace prize went to his head such that he could not bear to share the spotlight with important Palestinian moderates like Hannan Ashrawi and intellectuals like Edward Said.  I predict that Arafat will die soon.  I really hope so because only then can Sharon retire.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ April 01 2003,13:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As I've said many times<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, people are known to repeat their mistakes.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">, the greatest obstacles to peace for several decades have been Israeli settlements and Arafat.<span id='postcolor'>

I'll drink to the latter.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Israeli settlements were not addressed by Oslo at all. That's why I've always regarded the Oslo Accords as stillborn.<span id='postcolor'>

Oslo was stillborn because the Arabs, led by Arafat, have never given up terrorism and their cause of a Palestinian state from the Jordan to the Mediteranian. Was true then as it is now. The settlements is their lame excuse.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Arafat never was and could never be the Ghandi that his people deserved.<span id='postcolor'>

No foolin'!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After recognising Israel's right to exist before the UN in 1988,<span id='postcolor'>

Here's the PA's current press center WEB page. Even I don't recognize Israel now.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">he should have retired.<span id='postcolor'>

He should have been "retired" long ago.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">intellectuals like Edward Said.<span id='postcolor'>

LOL! You mean the phoney Palestinian hate mongering professor at Columbia U who turned out to be born and raised by his affluent family in Egypt? Most intellectual.

[Bernadotte 0]

Racism?  Hate?  Sorry, I no speak your language.

Regarding Edward Said's origins, I dare you to apply your same simple-minded approach to Ariel Sharon's origins.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ April 01 2003,19:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I dare you to apply your same simple-minded approach to Ariel Sharon's origins.<span id='postcolor'>

Here it is!

Oh! You mean you're all aglow that Arik Sharon was BORN IN PALESTINE?!

Am I reading your mind?

[Die Alive 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 31 2003,16:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Die Alive @ Mar. 31 2003,21:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">*sniff* Rachel Corrie would of been proud *sniff*<span id='postcolor'>

You seem to be really hung up on Rachel Corrie.  Here's another article that might help you deal with it.<span id='postcolor'>

No, no, I don't need to read any more sappy stories about Rachel, reading them wont bring back Rachel.  And I still get mad when I see pics like

But I'm getting better every day.  Just yesterday, I started to eat pancakes again.  And I've decided to start up a memorial page in Rachel’s honor.  Sadly, the page is "under construction."

I'm so sad I missed her memorial service at her college.  Apparently, they had kids dressed up in dove costumes (made with feathers) and they were holding pictures of Rachel.  So saddened I missed out on that, would of loved to seen those little darlings in them dove costumes.

I think it was a mad scientist that said once, "Laughter is the best medicine."

-=Die Alive=-

Offensive link deleted.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 01 2003,19:o8)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ April 01 2003,19:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I dare you to apply your same simple-minded approach to Ariel Sharon's origins.<span id='postcolor'>

Here it is!

Oh! You mean you're all aglow that Arik Sharon was BORN IN PALESTINE?!

Am I reading your mind?<span id='postcolor'>

Just because it sets you "aglow" to believe that Edward Said was born in Cairo doesn't mean it sets me aglow that Sharon was born in Palestine, decades before the state of Israel came into existence.  I choose not to judge someone's words or actions on the basis of race, religion or national origin.