Mid east

[Bernadotte 0]

Crushed by a bulldozer paid for by her own tax dollars.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Greg Schnabel, 28, from Chicago, said the protesters were in the house of Dr. Samir Masri.

"Rachel was alone in front of the house as we were trying to get them to stop," he said. "She waved for bulldozer to stop and waved. She fell down and the bulldozer kept going. We yelled 'stop, stop,' and the bulldozer didn't stop at all. It had completely run over her and then it reversed and ran back over her."

-- Ha'aretz<span id='postcolor'>

Once again I ask myself, how many Americans has Saddam Hussein crushed with a bulldozer?

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">7 February, 2003

I have been in Palestine for two weeks and one hour now, and I still have very few words to describe what I see.  It is most difficult for me to think about what's going on here when I sit down to write back to the United States.  Something about the virtual portal into luxury.  I don't know if many of the children here have ever existed without tank-shell holes in their walls and the towers of an occupying army surveying them constantly from the near horizons.  I think, although I'm not entirely sure, that even the smallest of these children understand that life is not like this everywhere.  An eight-year-old was shot and killed by an Israeli tank two days before I got here, and many of the children murmur his name to me: Ali--or point at the posters of him on the walls.  The children also love to get me to practice my limited Arabic by asking me "Kaif Sharon?"  "Kaif Bush?" and they laugh when I say "Bush Majnoon" "Sharon Majnoon" back in my limited Arabic.  (How is Sharon?  How is Bush? Bush is crazy.  Sharon is crazy.)  Of course this isn't quite what I believe, and some of the adults who have the English correct me: Bush mish Majnoon... Bush is a businessman.  Today I tried to learn to say "Bush is a tool", but I don't think it translated quite right.  But anyway, there are eight-year-olds here much more aware of the workings of the global power structure than I was just a few years ago-- at least regarding Israel.

Nevertheless, I think about the fact that no amount of reading, attendance at conferences, documentary viewing and word of mouth could have prepared me for the reality of the situation here.  You just can't imagine it unless you see it-- and even then you are always well aware that your experience of it is not at all the reality: what with the difficulties the Israeli Army would face of they shot an unarmed US citizen, and with the fact that I have money to buy water when the army destroys wells, and the fact, of course, that I have the option of leaving.  Nobody in my family has been shot, driving in their car, by a rocket launcher from a tower at the end of a major street in my hometown.  I have a home.  I am allowed to go see the ocean.  Ostensibly it is still quite difficult for me to be held for months or years on end without a trial (this because I am a white US citizen, as opposed to so many others).  When I leave for school or work I can be relatively certain that there will not be a heavily armed soldier waiting half way between mud bay and downtown Olympia at a checkpoint with the power to decide whether I can go about my business, and whether I can get home again when I'm done.  So, if I feel outrage at arriving and entering briefly and incompletely into the world in which these children exist, I wonder conversely about how it would be for them to arrive in my world.  

They know that children in the United States don't usually have their parents shot and sometimes get to see the ocean.  But once you have seen the ocean and lived in a silent place, where water is taken for granted and not stolen in the night by bulldozers, and spent an evening when you didn't wonder if the walls of your home might suddenly fall inward waking you from your sleep, and met people who have never lost anyone-- once you have experienced the reality of a world that isn't surrounded by murderous towers, tanks, armed "settlements" and now a giant metal wall, I wonder if you can forgive the world for all the years of your childhood spent existing--just existing-- in resistance to the constant stranglehold of the worlds fourth largest military apparatus--backed by the worlds only superpower-- in its attempt to erase you from your home.  That is something I wonder about these children.  I wonder what would happen if they really knew.

As an afterthought to all this rambling-- I am in Rafah:  A city of about 140,000 people, approximately 60 percent of whom are refugees-- many of whom are twice or three times refugees.  Rafah existed prior to 1948, but most of the people here are people--or descendants of people--who were relocated here from their homes in historic Palestine--now Israel.  Rafah was split in half when the Sinai returned to Egypt.  Currently, the Israeli army is building a fourteen-meter-high wall between Rafah, Palestine and the border, and carving a no-mans land from the houses along the border.  602 homes have been completely bulldozed according to the Rafah Popular Refugee Committee.  The number of homes that have been partially destroyed is greater.

Today as I walked on top of the rubble where homes once stood Egyptian soldiers called to me from the other side of the border:  "Go! Go!" because a tank was coming.  And then waving and "what's your name?".  Something disturbing about this friendly curiosity.  It reminded me of how much, to some degree, we are all kids curious about other kids.  Egyptian kids shouting at strange women wandering into the path of tanks.  Palestinian kids shot from the tanks when they peak out from behind walls to see what's going on.  International kids standing in front of tanks with banners.  Israeli kids in the tanks anonymously-- occasionally shouting-- and also occasionally waving-- many forced to be here, many just aggressive-- shooting into the houses as we wander away.

In addition to the constant presence of tanks along the border and in the western region between Rafah and settlements along the coast, there are more IDF towers here than I can count.  Along the horizon-- at the end of streets.  Some just army green metal-- others these strange spiral staircases draped in some kind of netting to make the activity within anonymous.  Some hidden just beneath the horizon of buildings.  A new one went up the other day in the time it took us to do laundry and cross town twice to hang banners.  Despite the fact that some of the areas nearest the border are the original Rafah-- families who have lived on this land for at least a century, only the 1948 camps in the center of the city are Palestinian controlled areas under Oslo.  But as far as I can tell there are few-if-any places that are not within the sights of some tower or another.  Certainly nowhere invulnerable to apache helicopters or the cameras of invisible drones we hear buzzing over the city for hours at a time.

I've been having trouble accessing news about the outside world here, but I hear an escalation of war on Iraq is inevitable.  There is a great deal of concern here about the "reoccupation of Gaza".  Gaza is reoccupied every day to various extents-- but I think the fear is that the tanks will enter all the streets and remain here-- instead of entering some of the streets and then withdrawing after some hours or days to observe and shoot from the edges of the communities.  I went to a rally a few days ago in Khan Younis in solidarity with the people of Iraq.  Many analogies were made about the continuing suffering of the Palestinian people under Israeli occupation and the upcoming occupation of Iraq by the United States-- not the war itself-- but the certain aftermath of the war.  If people aren't already thinking about the consequences of this war for the people of the entire region then I hope you will start.  

I also hope you'll come here.  We've been wavering between five and six internationals.  The neighborhoods that have asked us for some form of presence are Yibna, Tel El Sultan, Hi Salam, Brazil, Block J, Zorob, and Block O, as well as the need for constant night-time presence at a well on the outskirts of Rafah after the Israeli army destroyed the two largest wells (providing half of the water for Rafah according to the municipal water office) last week.  Many of these places have requested internationals to be present at night to attempt to shield houses from further demolition.  After about ten pm it is very difficult to move at night because the Israeli army treats anyone in the streets as resistance and shoots at them.  So clearly we are too few.

I continue to believe that my home, Olympia, could gain a lot and offer a lot by deciding to make a commitment to Rafah in the form of a sister-community relationship.  Some teachers and children's groups have expressed interest in e-mail exchanges, but this is only the tip of the iceberg of solidarity work that could be done.  Many people want their voices to be heard, and I think we need to use some of our privilege as internationals to get those voices heard directly in the US, rather than through the filter of well-meaning internationals such as myself.  I am just beginning to learn from what I expect to be a very intense tutelage in the ability of people to organize against all odds, and to resist against all odds.  

Thanks for the news I've been getting from friends in the US.  I just read a report back from a friend who organized a peace group in Shelton, Washington, and was able to be part of a delegation to the large January 18th protest in Washington DC.  People here watch the media, and they told me again today that there have been large protests in the United States and "problems for the government" in the UK.  So thanks for allowing me to not feel like a complete polyanna when I tentatively tell people here that many people in the United States do not support the policies of our government, and that we are learning from global examples how to resist.

my love to everyone.  my love to my mom.  my love to the cult formerly known as local knowledge program.  my love to smooch.  my love to fg and barnhair and sesamees and lincoln school.  my love to olympia.  

Rachel<span id='postcolor'>

May she rest in peace.

[Bernadotte 0]

...seconds before being crushed

...and seconds after.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 16 2003,18:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">7 February, 2003

I have been in Palestine for two weeks and one hour now, and I still have very few words to describe what I see. It is most difficult for me to think about what's going on here when I sit down to write back to the United States. Something about the virtual portal into luxury. I don't know if many of the children here have ever existed without tank-shell holes in their walls and the towers of an occupying army surveying them constantly from the near horizons. I think, although I'm not entirely sure, that even the smallest of these children understand that life is not like this everywhere. An eight-year-old was shot and killed by an Israeli tank two days before I got here, and many of the children murmur his name to me: Ali--or point at the posters of him on the walls. The children also love to get me to practice my limited Arabic by asking me "Kaif Sharon?" "Kaif Bush?" and they laugh when I say "Bush Majnoon" "Sharon Majnoon" back in my limited Arabic. (How is Sharon? How is Bush? Bush is crazy. Sharon is crazy.) Of course this isn't quite what I believe, and some of the adults who have the English correct me: Bush mish Majnoon... Bush is a businessman. Today I tried to learn to say "Bush is a tool", but I don't think it translated quite right. But anyway, there are eight-year-olds here much more aware of the workings of the global power structure than I was just a few years ago-- at least regarding Israel.

Nevertheless, I think about the fact that no amount of reading, attendance at conferences, documentary viewing and word of mouth could have prepared me for the reality of the situation here. You just can't imagine it unless you see it-- and even then you are always well aware that your experience of it is not at all the reality: what with the difficulties the Israeli Army would face of they shot an unarmed US citizen, and with the fact that I have money to buy water when the army destroys wells, and the fact, of course, that I have the option of leaving. Nobody in my family has been shot, driving in their car, by a rocket launcher from a tower at the end of a major street in my hometown. I have a home. I am allowed to go see the ocean. Ostensibly it is still quite difficult for me to be held for months or years on end without a trial (this because I am a white US citizen, as opposed to so many others). When I leave for school or work I can be relatively certain that there will not be a heavily armed soldier waiting half way between mud bay and downtown Olympia at a checkpoint with the power to decide whether I can go about my business, and whether I can get home again when I'm done. So, if I feel outrage at arriving and entering briefly and incompletely into the world in which these children exist, I wonder conversely about how it would be for them to arrive in my world.

They know that children in the United States don't usually have their parents shot and sometimes get to see the ocean. But once you have seen the ocean and lived in a silent place, where water is taken for granted and not stolen in the night by bulldozers, and spent an evening when you didn't wonder if the walls of your home might suddenly fall inward waking you from your sleep, and met people who have never lost anyone-- once you have experienced the reality of a world that isn't surrounded by murderous towers, tanks, armed "settlements" and now a giant metal wall, I wonder if you can forgive the world for all the years of your childhood spent existing--just existing-- in resistance to the constant stranglehold of the worlds fourth largest military apparatus--backed by the worlds only superpower-- in its attempt to erase you from your home. That is something I wonder about these children. I wonder what would happen if they really knew.

As an afterthought to all this rambling-- I am in Rafah: A city of about 140,000 people, approximately 60 percent of whom are refugees-- many of whom are twice or three times refugees. Rafah existed prior to 1948, but most of the people here are people--or descendants of people--who were relocated here from their homes in historic Palestine--now Israel. Rafah was split in half when the Sinai returned to Egypt. Currently, the Israeli army is building a fourteen-meter-high wall between Rafah, Palestine and the border, and carving a no-mans land from the houses along the border. 602 homes have been completely bulldozed according to the Rafah Popular Refugee Committee. The number of homes that have been partially destroyed is greater.

Today as I walked on top of the rubble where homes once stood Egyptian soldiers called to me from the other side of the border: "Go! Go!" because a tank was coming. And then waving and "what's your name?". Something disturbing about this friendly curiosity. It reminded me of how much, to some degree, we are all kids curious about other kids. Egyptian kids shouting at strange women wandering into the path of tanks. Palestinian kids shot from the tanks when they peak out from behind walls to see what's going on. International kids standing in front of tanks with banners. Israeli kids in the tanks anonymously-- occasionally shouting-- and also occasionally waving-- many forced to be here, many just aggressive-- shooting into the houses as we wander away.

In addition to the constant presence of tanks along the border and in the western region between Rafah and settlements along the coast, there are more IDF towers here than I can count. Along the horizon-- at the end of streets. Some just army green metal-- others these strange spiral staircases draped in some kind of netting to make the activity within anonymous. Some hidden just beneath the horizon of buildings. A new one went up the other day in the time it took us to do laundry and cross town twice to hang banners. Despite the fact that some of the areas nearest the border are the original Rafah-- families who have lived on this land for at least a century, only the 1948 camps in the center of the city are Palestinian controlled areas under Oslo. But as far as I can tell there are few-if-any places that are not within the sights of some tower or another. Certainly nowhere invulnerable to apache helicopters or the cameras of invisible drones we hear buzzing over the city for hours at a time.

I've been having trouble accessing news about the outside world here, but I hear an escalation of war on Iraq is inevitable. There is a great deal of concern here about the "reoccupation of Gaza". Gaza is reoccupied every day to various extents-- but I think the fear is that the tanks will enter all the streets and remain here-- instead of entering some of the streets and then withdrawing after some hours or days to observe and shoot from the edges of the communities. I went to a rally a few days ago in Khan Younis in solidarity with the people of Iraq. Many analogies were made about the continuing suffering of the Palestinian people under Israeli occupation and the upcoming occupation of Iraq by the United States-- not the war itself-- but the certain aftermath of the war. If people aren't already thinking about the consequences of this war for the people of the entire region then I hope you will start.

I also hope you'll come here. We've been wavering between five and six internationals. The neighborhoods that have asked us for some form of presence are Yibna, Tel El Sultan, Hi Salam, Brazil, Block J, Zorob, and Block O, as well as the need for constant night-time presence at a well on the outskirts of Rafah after the Israeli army destroyed the two largest wells (providing half of the water for Rafah according to the municipal water office) last week. Many of these places have requested internationals to be present at night to attempt to shield houses from further demolition. After about ten pm it is very difficult to move at night because the Israeli army treats anyone in the streets as resistance and shoots at them. So clearly we are too few.

I continue to believe that my home, Olympia, could gain a lot and offer a lot by deciding to make a commitment to Rafah in the form of a sister-community relationship. Some teachers and children's groups have expressed interest in e-mail exchanges, but this is only the tip of the iceberg of solidarity work that could be done. Many people want their voices to be heard, and I think we need to use some of our privilege as internationals to get those voices heard directly in the US, rather than through the filter of well-meaning internationals such as myself. I am just beginning to learn from what I expect to be a very intense tutelage in the ability of people to organize against all odds, and to resist against all odds.

Thanks for the news I've been getting from friends in the US. I just read a report back from a friend who organized a peace group in Shelton, Washington, and was able to be part of a delegation to the large January 18th protest in Washington DC. People here watch the media, and they told me again today that there have been large protests in the United States and "problems for the government" in the UK. So thanks for allowing me to not feel like a complete polyanna when I tentatively tell people here that many people in the United States do not support the policies of our government, and that we are learning from global examples how to resist.

my love to everyone. my love to my mom. my love to the cult formerly known as local knowledge program. my love to smooch. my love to fg and barnhair and sesamees and lincoln school. my love to olympia.

Rachel<span id='postcolor'>

May she rest in peace.<span id='postcolor'>

Damn....

At least I hear what she says. I hope everone reading that also will.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 17 2003,02:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...seconds before being crushed

...and seconds after.<span id='postcolor'>

Looks like terrorism to me

Oh wait, it's a US ally. My mistake - "collateral damage", "very regrettable" and all that. Clearly this is ultimately Saddam's fault, so let's bomb Iraq and everything will be peachy.

[FSPilot 0]

Looks like a peace protester tried to be defiant and got too close to moving machinery. If she fell down the bulldozer operator probably couldn't see her over the shovel, or hear her over the engine.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Mar. 17 2003,06:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Looks like a peace protester tried to be defiant and got too close to moving machinery.  If she fell down the bulldozer operator probably couldn't see her over the shovel, or hear her over the engine.<span id='postcolor'>

I was about to point out this picture again

and suggest you use some common sense when suggesting that the operators couldn't see her...but I guess at this late hour I forgot who I was talking to. Nevermind.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Mar. 17 2003,07:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Mar. 17 2003,06:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Looks like a peace protester tried to be defiant and got too close to moving machinery.  If she fell down the bulldozer operator probably couldn't see her over the shovel, or hear her over the engine.<span id='postcolor'>

I was about to point out this picture again

and suggest you use some common sense when suggesting that the operators couldn't see her...but I guess at this late hour I forgot who I was talking to. Nevermind.<span id='postcolor'>

I suggest you use some common sense. While she can be seen at the distance shown in the picture, she would have been out of view shortly after. She is standing at the edge of the blade and not smack in the middle of the D9's path as has been reported by all the wannabee martyrs. If she fell at the last moment inward, the driver would not have been aware of it.

Use some common sense.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 17 2003,06:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I suggest you use some common sense. While she can be seen at the distance shown in the picture, she would have been out of view shortly after. She is standing at the edge of the blade and not smack in the middle of the D9's path as has been reported by all the wannabee martyrs. If she fell at the last moment inward, the driver would not have been aware of it.

Use some common sense.<span id='postcolor'>

Even if she was only at the edge of the blade, the driver must have clearly seen she was dangerously close to his path, and he kept going. To me, stopping at that point would have been common sense.

[ale2999 0]

I got to say this, I got taught when I was a kid to move out of the way, if there is vehicles on the move. Even though she was protesting I hope she didnt think she was special that he would stop. She took a risk, so when she decided not to move she assumed responsibility. She must also know that she cant intrust anyone for sometin precious as her life. If it was me protesting I'd move when the thing was 100 meters away lol (dont call me wuss ). I am sorry she got hit, but it is her fault too.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 17 2003,06:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Mar. 17 2003,07:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Mar. 17 2003,06:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Looks like a peace protester tried to be defiant and got too close to moving machinery.  If she fell down the bulldozer operator probably couldn't see her over the shovel, or hear her over the engine.<span id='postcolor'>

I was about to point out this picture again

and suggest you use some common sense when suggesting that the operators couldn't see her...but I guess at this late hour I forgot who I was talking to. Nevermind.<span id='postcolor'>

I suggest you use some common sense. While she can be seen at the distance shown in the picture, she would have been out of view shortly after. She is standing at the edge of the blade and not smack in the middle of the D9's path as has been reported by all the wannabee martyrs. If she fell at the last moment inward, the driver would not have been aware of it.<span id='postcolor'>

She was not crushed next to where she stands in the above photo.  She moved ahead of the machine, if it even was the same machine pictured - there were 2 bulldozers.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Rachel was sitting in the path of the bulldozer as it advanced towards her.  When the bulldozer refused to stop or turn aside she climbed up onto the mound of dirt and rubble being gathered in front of it wearing a fluorescent jacket to look directly at the driver who kept on advancing.  The bulldozer continued to advance so that she was pulled under the pile of dirt and rubble.  After she had disappeared from view the driver kept advancing until the bulldozer was completely on top of her.  The driver did not lift the bulldozer blade and so she was crushed beneath it.  Then the driver backed off and the seven other ISM activists taking part in the action rushed to dig out her body.<span id='postcolor'>

And what's this simple-minded nonsense you are spewing about wannabe martyrs?  ISM have had 30 - 50 members active in the occupied territories for years with no fatalities until now.  Just show me an Israeli who moves himself and his family to a condo in the heart of occupied Hebron and I'll show you a real wannabe martyr.

What Rachel did was stupid and completely against ISM training.  What the IDF bulldozer operator did was murder.

By the way FS Pilot, please note that she was speaking into a megaphone and could probably be heard over the engine noise.

[Guest]

It was murder alright I certainly hope that murder charges will be pressed against the bulldozer operator. Somehow I doubt that there will.

She was reckless for playing with fire and should have known better. Putting your life in the good hands of the IDF is not recommended if you're not on their side.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ale2999 @ Mar. 17 2003,07:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am sorry she got hit, but it is her fault too.<span id='postcolor'>

Question, would you have said the same about him?

[Longinius 1]

Whatever happened to that guy anyway?

[theavonlady 2]

It wasn't murder.

It wasn't intentional.

The driver couldn't clearly see anything once she got that close.

He most likely didn't hear her megaphone, if he was wearing ear protectors or radio headphone. Even he did, he most probably heard the same trash being spewed out by ISM-niks like he's heard in the past.

Plain and simple. Of course, all of you are prime witnesses. Bernadotte even knows that there were 2 bulldozers - yet admits he doesn't know which one did it. So that the pictures posted may be completely irrelevant, according to your own words.

BTW, Bernadotte, Jewish Hebron was indeed occupied until 1967.

[Longinius 1]

No, it might not have been murder. But it sure was manslaughter. Intentional or not, he still killed her through a fault of his own. Any driver who has a pedistrian in front of or very close to his vehicle (no matter which vehicle, but especially relevant with tractors, bulldozers, cranes etc) is responsible if an accident happens.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Mar. 17 2003,15:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, it might not have been murder. But it sure was manslaughter. Intentional or not, he still killed her through a fault of his own.<span id='postcolor'>

If, as the pictures so far published show, she was standing on the side of the bulldozer's and fell inwards, it's not manslaughter.

Fault? Fall into a busy intersection when you have a red light. Tragic but no one else is to blame.

[Longinius 1]

But this wasnt a busy intersection. This was a person operating a heavy piece of machinery in the vicinity of other people. She was killed through his negligance (sp?). He knew she was standing in front of him, in a dangerous area. Yet, he kept on driving. Then, all of a sudden, he loses her from his field of vision (we have to assume he couldnt see her after she fell) and he keeps on driving. This is where the negligance part comes in, as far as I am concerned. As soon as he lost sight of her, he should have stopped to confirm her location.

I also think the IDF soldiers that were on the scene (if true) are at fault if they did not make sure the injured party recieved medical attention.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Mar. 17 2003,15:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But this wasnt a busy intersection.<span id='postcolor'>

Correct, rather there was plenty of room to get out fo the way. War zones aren't necessarily subject to you standard traffic rules, BTW.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This was a person operating a heavy piece of machinery in the vicinity of other people. She was killed through his negligance.<span id='postcolor'>

Her own.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">He knew she was standing in front of him, in a dangerous area. Yet, he kept on driving. Then, all of a sudden, he loses her from his field of vision (we have to assume he couldnt see her after she fell) and he keeps on driving.<span id='postcolor'>

The pictures show that she was standing at the side of the bulldozer just as it was nearby.

The driver of an armored D9 most likely wouldn't see someone quite a few meters before reaching the person.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I also think the IDF soldiers that were on the scene (if true)<span id='postcolor'>

No soldier would have been around in the open around there. There may have been another bulldozer nearby. Did it see what was going on? Was the driver working on something else?

More speculation perhaps?

There would have been a tank somewhere in the area. I doubt they could determine from a distance that this was going to happen. If the tank was behind the BD, it certainly couldn't know what had happende. If the driver didn't expect it, certainly no one else around did, include this girl's friends.

[Longinius 1]

"There would have been a tank somewhere in the area. I doubt they could determine from a distance that this was going to happen. If the tank was behind the BD, it certainly couldn't know what had happende. If the driver didn't expect it, certainly no one else around did, include this girl's friends."

According to several articles, based on the other activists eyewitness accounts, there was a tank that drove up after the accident. They, according to these activists, saw the casualty but drove off. Now, of course these eyewitnesses could be lying. That is why I said "If" it was true.

Avon, if this had happened at a contruction site for a new highway, and the peace activists had been environmental activists and the dozer driver had beena regular construction worker, should he have gotten off free then aswell?

[Blaegis 0]

For once I have to agree with Avon - it was an accident, or negligence on part of the driver in the worst case (I really doubt he ran her over on purpose). In any case, if you're prepared to play chicken with a 50-ton bulldozer, you should be prepared for the possibility that it doesn't stop for you...

[Die Alive 0]

Rachel Corrie, 23, from Olympia, Wash., a member of the 'International Solidarity Movement,' burns a mock U.S. flag during a rally in the southern Gaza Strip town of Rafah in this Feb. 15, 2003 file photo. Corrie was run over and crushed to death by an Israeli army bulldozer Sunday, March 16, 2003, while she was trying to stop it from tearing down a building in the Rafah refugee camp, witnesses said. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra)

-=Die Alive=-

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Mar. 17 2003,13:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Whatever happened to that guy anyway?<span id='postcolor'>

Off topic but for the sake of interest, one theory is that he somehow evaded capture and is still at large. Sounds very unlikely but some dissident groups support this story. The other is that he was arrested and executed by a firing squad shortly after. His name is believed to be Wang Weilin. Of course, the Chinese government still denies that anyone died in the Tiananmen Square "Incident" and claims they have no record of him.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Mar. 17 2003,16:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Avon, if this had happened at a contruction site for a new highway, and the peace activists had been environmental activists and the dozer driver had beena  regular construction worker, should he have gotten off free then aswell?<span id='postcolor'>

In such a case where the laws and rules are clear and established, I don't know about getting off free but certainly not murder or manslaughter.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaegis @ Mar. 17 2003,16:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">For once I have to agree with Avon<span id='postcolor'>

/avon pastes gold star in diary