Mid east

[Longinius 1]

"When all members of Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Hezbollah, and 50 other splinter groups are dead?"

Or when Israel has been destroyed.

[Postduifje 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ June 05 2002,17:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When all members of Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Hezbollah, and 50 other splinter groups are dead?<span id='postcolor'>

You really think so? I'd say that'll only make it worse.

That place is a collision of races, religions and cultures, so killing some groups (that can hardly be considerd as "one side") isn't the proper sollution.

It takes about 500 years in the middle east for a change to happen, so it'll take some time before the word peace will even be in the dictionary over there.

[Die Alive 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ June 05 2002,10:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (InRange @ June 05 2002,08:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When will this ever stop.

*sigh* <span id='postcolor'>

When all members of Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Hezbollah, and 50 other splinter groups are dead?<span id='postcolor'>

Well then all the women have to be killed as well because as long as more kids are being born, then more homicide bombers will replenish the ranks of the exploded.

-=Die Alive=-

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

It will stop when both sides realise that violence alone will not bring them what they want (or anything near)

Israel must not block the creation of a true (and militarily strong) Palestinian state,

and that Palestinian state must then use this strength to raid and arrest suicide bombers and make a real effort to keep control of them

(in which case Israel must respect the the Pali.States borders in case of a suicide attack)

Then Israel and the Palestinian state must be willing to negotiate , both sides must be willing to make concessions

and the populace must agree that these concessions

are necessary for peace

its clear all these conditions have not yet been met

[el Gringo Loco 1]

Let's start with israel acknowledging the borders set by the UN, and agreed by Israel in the first place, for the nation of Israel.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

L24A! i thought maybe youde snuffed it ........

Mmmm this would be the 'conquests' of the Arab-Israeli wars?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (L24A @ June 06 2002,17:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Let's start with israel acknowledging the borders set by the UN, and agreed by Israel in the first place, for the nation of Israel.<span id='postcolor'>

You are alive? Kind of bored this month since Holland is not participating in the world cup (bloody-ugly-inpolite-rude-offending-Provokation).

BTW: I just remember yesterday on CNN that 30 year old female Isreali saying into the camera: "I know you europeans do not agree with our actions, and this is probably cause you got many arabic minorities in your countries, but we are dying, our children are dying, cause they bring up their children with hate. And believe me Europeans, after us you will be next!"

Did you see that interview, kind of gave me a very good impression of the Isreaeli soul. However the points the brought forward were so astonishingly tunneled, that I dont believe any of the sides hasnt realy understood where the problem lies.

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ June 05 2002,12:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"When all members of Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Hezbollah, and 50 other splinter groups are dead?"

Or when Israel has been destroyed.<span id='postcolor'>

that too

[PitViper 0]

Schweitzer

Do you think the growing minorities in European states which are nearly as militant as these middle eastern militants will not become a problem? Isnt that what Pim Fortyun's concern was?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I dont think the minorities are the problem, the problem is that they "unintended" help to shelter potential terorists. And they are maybe even able to spread religious propaganda (infection risk). Those can easily hide for years in muslimic communities without arising the interest of the national secret service. However on the other hand I think Pimfor. was on the right track when he said that the surpression of women is an indicator of a regressice religion. And whatever the manipulated women say, they are actually surpressed!!!

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">However on the other hand I think Pimfor. was on the right track when he said that the surpression of women is an indicator of a regressice religion. And whatever the manipulated women say, they are actually surpressed!!!

<span id='postcolor'>

It is a very relative things. According to our culture and norms the women are oppressed. They might say that such limitations of freedom is a small price to pay for having a more stable family life. I am very much in doubt that we have the right to make those judgements for them.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I just remember yesterday on CNN that 30 year old female Isreali saying into the camera: "I know you europeans do not agree with our actions, and this is probably cause you got many arabic minorities in your countries, but we are dying, our children are dying, cause they bring up their children with hate. And believe me Europeans, after us you will be next!"

<span id='postcolor'>

Another side of the coin that the Palistinan children are dying too. I personally don't think that the arabic minorities in Europe pose any danger. While they might have different political views then we do, they are still a small minority.

[FUBAR 0]

I think all other nations should suspend all  diplomatic connections and support with Israel, untill they follow the UN demands, then a buffer zone is setup between Israel and Palastine, controlled by the UN, Arafat should step down, and his replacment should be given the opertunity to build a police/army force within Palastine, this to be overseen by the UN, then this force aided by the UN is to seek and remove any known terrorist network from Palastine, If the people of Palastine realy want peace this would be the time for them to prove it.

Sharon should also stepdown as these two children will never be able to agree with each other, while they continue to blame each other for their actions. while they continue to do this there will never be any hope of peace.

The people of both Nations  keep saying they want peace.....Instead of talking about it....do something about it......get a leader into your goverments that can arrange a peace process. It will be hard at first, but untill they can get somebody in there that can talk to each other and work with each other towards peace they will never see it.

[foxer 0]

5--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 06 2002,215)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I just remember yesterday on CNN that 30 year old female Isreali saying into the camera: "I know you europeans do not agree with our actions, and this is probably cause you got many arabic minorities in your countries, but we are dying, our children are dying, cause they bring up their children with hate. And believe me Europeans, after us you will be next!"

<span id='postcolor'>

Another side of the coin that the Palistinan children are dying too. I personally don't think that the arabic minorities in Europe pose any danger. While they might have different political views then we do, they are still a small minority.<span id='postcolor'>

i disagree with you.I think europe will have problems in the future,check out this story.

Reid, a British citizen, is now in federal custody in Boston, facing a nine-count indictment.

Here's the story

Point is one day the same muslims upset at the USA and israel may be upset at europe one day.

[Oligo 1]

I think this Reid fellow is nothing but a nutcase. His whole blow up -scheme was obviously a some kind of cry for help, since what sane terrorist hell bent on success would try to light his shoe in the passenger cabin? How about going into the bathroom? This Reid fellow just WANTED to get caught.

So his actions cannot be used to indicate any trends.

[Guest]

Yepp, Reid was a nutcase in my opinion too. And one person cannot indicate a trend. Plus he was plotting against American interests, not European

[Longinius 1]

"Another side of the coin that the Palistinan children are dying too. I personally don't think that the arabic minorities in Europe pose any danger. While they might have different political views then we do, they are still a small minority."

Walk the streets of downtown Malmo between 2200 and 2400 hours and I will show you the danger minorities can be... :/

[Guest]

Why the hell would anybody want to live in Malmö?

But on a serious note, yes, I've heard that you have some problems down there with immigrant ghettos.

[Longinius 1]

"But on a serious note, yes, I've heard that you have some problems down there with immigrant ghettos."

The funny thing is that the problems arent in the ghettos. The problems are in the "nice" areas because immigrants dont want to risk offending a friend of a friend or a member of some bad ass gang. Thats why they head into the "swedish" areas and do the robberies, assaults and so on.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The funny thing is that the problems arent in the ghettos. The problems are in the "nice" areas because immigrants dont want to risk offending a friend of a friend or a member of some bad ass gang. Thats why they head into the "swedish" areas and do the robberies, assaults and so on.<span id='postcolor'>

My point was that it is because of poor integration and not because of differences in culture.

And what do you mean by "nice areas"? Are you seriously suggesting that there is something nice in Malmö?

[Longinius 1]

"My point was that it is because of poor integration and not because of differences in culture."

Maybe. I think its cultural though. Many muslims do not want to become intigrated. They do not want to compromise. That is what you get when you try to intigrate religions (some times fundamentalistic) cultures with a culture that really bends over backwards to accomodate everyone and everything. The result is that the culture that gives way has everything to lose and the other culture everything to gain. That to me is a threat.

[Longinius 1]

"And what do you mean by "nice areas"? Are you seriously suggesting that there is something nice in Malmö?"

OK, we can replace "nice" with "wealthier" or "better off" or "not so slummy"

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Many muslims do not want to become intigrated. <span id='postcolor'>

Perhaps. But if you look at islamic countries you will se that crimes like petty theft are very rare since they are punished so severely. In Sweden however there are quite many such crimes commited by young arabic immigrants.

[Longinius 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Perhaps. But if you look at islamic countries you will se that crimes like petty theft are very rare since they are punished so severely. In Sweden however there are quite many such crimes commited by young arabic immigrants.<span id='postcolor'>

This is very true. But this also have to do with the same mindset that says its more OK to rape or assault a Swedish girl than a muslim one because all Swedish girls are sluts anyway. Its been said more than once by immigrant rapists. Many immigrants simply lack respect for the Swedish people, which makes it more acceptable to commit crimes directed at Swedes. Its actually quite scary how far gone it is. Immigrants are a minority of the people in Malmo but at the afternoon and evenings they are a majority of the people on the streets. People are afraid to go out.

If this keeps up and nothing is done to fix the situation (political reform where everyone stops being so PC and accepts the fact that there ARE problems with the immigration politics) then we will all be in trouble.

[Guest]

I doubt that it is a need to be PC or not PC. The law is the law, no matter what race, culture or religion you are from. They are in a minority so they have to follow and respect our rules since we are a majority.

The crime however is just an effect of a fucked immigration and social integration policy. Segregation leads to crime. We have a bad sprial since they distance themselves from us and we distance our selves from them. The problem is that a majority of both Sweds and immigrants are nice law abiding people that could easily accept each other, but they get caught in between because of the circumstances. Most immigrants are not criminals, but contribute to society. Most Swedes are respectful of the islamic culture.