Mid east

[foxer 0]

But this also have to do with the same mindset that says its more OK to rape or assault a Swedish girl than a muslim one because all Swedish girls are sluts anyway. Its been said more than once by immigrant rapists

Really ? That's pretty fuck up.

[Guest]

Actually that is a myth. Most rapes in Sweden are done by Swedes.

Edit:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Invandrare stĺr för knappt 20 procent av alla anmälda brott i landet. Hälften av dem begĺs av

nordiska invandrare. Trots att andelen inte är hög innebär den ändĺ en överrepresentation, ef-tersom

invandrarna utgör ungefär 11 procent av befolkningen. Brottsandelen varierar beroende

pĺ vilken typ av brott det handlar om. Tidigare undersökningar har visat att vĺldtäkt är det

brott där invandrarandelen är högst, cirka 40 procent.<span id='postcolor'>

I won't bother to translate, but basically that 20% of crimes in Sweden are comitted by immigrants, but 50% of those are scandinavians. 11% of the Swedish population are immigrants.

Brĺttsförebyggande Rĺdet: Statistik om gruppvĺldtäkter

[Longinius 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I doubt that it is a need to be PC or not PC. The law is the law, no matter what race, culture or religion you are from. They are in a minority so they have to follow and respect our rules since we are a majority.<span id='postcolor'>

As long as many of our leading politicians refuse to recognise the immigration issue as a problem because they are worrying about being PC then we won't get anywhere.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The crime however is just an effect of a fucked immigration and social integration policy. Segregation leads to crime. We have a bad sprial since they distance themselves from us and we distance our selves from them.<span id='postcolor'>

This is true. The problem is though that we are taking in more people than we could ever integrate in an orderly fashion. Thus we get segregation and ghettos, which many politicians don't see as a problem. They are scared of touching the issue because as soon as you speak up against the immigration policyes you are targeted as "racist", "extreme right wing" or just nuts.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The problem is that a majority of both Sweds and immigrants are nice law abiding people that could easily accept each other, but they get caught in between because of the circumstances. Most immigrants are not criminals, but contribute to society. Most Swedes are respectful of the islamic culture.<span id='postcolor'>

I admit I am tainted by what I have seen here in Malmo. But most immigrants are not lawabiding. Sure, most do not rob or steal. But there are other crimes being commited. Illegally selling alcohol in the stores (50 stores in Malmo have been suspected of this, I could probably take you to most of them and all are owned by immigrants), organised crime (prostitution and smuggling), ethnic cleansing of commercial districts (nearly all Swedish stores around Mollevangen square have been closed down. Why? Because they couldnt withstand a boom in petty theft and window crushing. They had to close down. Instantly after that an immigrant business opened up that had NO problems with theft or windows). I know far from all immigrants are criminals. But there is a higher percentage of criminals among immigrants than among "Swedes" which makes it stand out even more since they are a minority.

Personally I differ between three kinds of immigrants, we have our refugees, our regular immigrants and then there is scum. And the scum has got to go. I am all for helping refugees and giving aid. I am all for letting people immigrate and settle down here, taking on jobs and becoming a part of the society. What I do NOT tolerate is people that come here for an easy ride. And believe me, many do because it IS an easy ride compared to their homeland. Yeah, I know, I just labled myself a racist because I said some immigrants abuse the system. So sue me.

[Guest]

I don't think you can draw your conclusions from your expiriences in Malmö.

Malmö is by far the most crime dense city in Sweden. Your situation is not representative for the country. If you see the statistics I gave above, non-scandinavian immigrants are comitting more or less the same number of crimes (percentage-wise) as we Swedes do.

[Pukko 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ June 07 2002,11:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe. I think its cultural though. Many muslims do not want to become intigrated.<span id='postcolor'>

Cultural it is!

But the problem dont have to be only the immigrants. We

Swedes dont want to 'be integrated in the world' either. In these globalisation times - the sooner you give up your national bullshit (really not worth anything more that different sub/pre-national historical regions/counties) and embrace other people/cultures, the better it will be for everyone in the long run.

Oh, but I forgot; in our time long thinking is absolutely taboo.....

[Guest]

Read this - ok, it's aftonbladet, but they have some statistics:

Sĺ mĺnga brott begĺr invandrare

Anyway, Longinius, as you can see even if they commit more crimes, it is far from that a majority of immigrants are criminals.

[Longinius 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't think you can draw your conclusions from your expiriences in Malmö.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes I can because this is what the other cities will look like if nothing is done about it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Malmö is by far the most crime dense city in Sweden. Your situation is not representative for the country.<span id='postcolor'>

Not yet, no...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you see the statistics I gave above, non-scandinavian immigrants are comitting more or less the same number of crimes (percentage-wise) as we Swedes do. <span id='postcolor'>

Immigrants are responsible for 20% of the crime but make up 11% of the population (according to the document you provided). That isnt exactly good.

As for the cultural aspect of it all, why is it that asian immigrants usually comitt less crime than for example muslims? Asians tend to isolate themselves to, but they are quiter and don't comitt as many crimes. It probably has to do with values and the fear of losing face, a very cultural thing if I ever heard one. So I am quite convinced culture also is a key aspect.

[Longinius 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyway, Longinius, as you can see even if they commit more crimes, it is far from that a majority of immigrants are criminals.<span id='postcolor'>

True, true. But far from the majority of immigrants are of the category that would commit for example violent crimes. Would be interesting to see how many male immigrants between 12 and 25 have commited such crimes compared to the number of Swedes. (You rarely see elderly people and mothers of any culture out robbing people on the street, yet they are a part of the crime statistic anyway since they are immigrants).

[Guest]

The statistics in Aftonbladet:

16% of all crimes are comitted by immigrants, while they represent 10% of the population. Half of them are scandinavians. So if you get assulted on the street, there is 92% chance that it will be a scandinavian.

There is a bigger difference then 6% in average income between Swedes and immigrants. Poor people have always comitted more crimes. You have to put the percentages in relation to social situation.

I can appriciate that the situation in Malmö is bad, but you still can't generalize like you do. In Stockholm for instance the numbers of immigrants have increased while the crime rate has been constant. The percentage of crimes comitted by immigrants have dropped. This is largly because of monetary investments in immigrant dense areas like Rinkeby and Tensta.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(You rarely see elderly people and mothers of any culture out robbing people on the street, yet they are a part of the crime statistic anyway since they are immigrants).

<span id='postcolor'>

That is irrelevant since the same measures are applied to both populations. I think that the age distribution is similar in both populations.

[Longinius 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I can appriciate that the situation in Malmö is bad, but you still can't generalize like you do. In Stockholm for instance the numbers of immigrants have increased while the crime rate has been constant. The percentage of crimes comitted by immigrants have dropped. This is largly because of monetary investments in immigrant dense areas like Rinkeby and Tensta.<span id='postcolor'>

Like I said earlier, I am tainted by bad experiences. We do agree however that something needs to be done and that has to do with politics and not the immigrant on a personal level (as they arent criminals by default, but by opportunity/misfortune)

[Guest]

Yepp, we can agree on that. The problem is as always that nobody really knows what to do to solve the problems.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Yes there is a similar problem in England,

WHO JUST BEAT ARGENTINA 1-0 IN THE WORLD CUP!!!!

!/]*-¬<ENGLAND>¬-*[\!

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Screw statistics!! You never always know all the elements that are included or being left out! Just take a regular look at your local newspaper and you know that there is a very precise focus-group for crimes. Especially capital-crimes such as drug business, prostitution and car-stealing-dealing are in the hands of ethnical minorities. Of course you could now say: how rassist you are Albert!!! But it in fact I am not! I am not saying that basically every imigrant is a thief, but I am saying that basically every street-crime is committed by one!

[foxer 0]

Albert Schweizer,i don't think you sound like a racist,Your person,probably millions of other people that says the samething ,but they might think it's racist and don't say anything.Gov't don't wanna be called a racist ,soo they let the crap happen.Also if more people like you said it more out in the open(maybe you do ?) maybe it would catch on,and the gov't would probably do something.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

The topic is actually a "hot" topic right now. Since most parties are afraid to tackle the issue of asylum-criminality (crime committed by immigrants) the extreme right wing parties are getting terrible high percentage of votes. Holland, France and Austria are only the beginning. The more centered parties should not drop this issue just because they are afraid as being accused as racists. Cause what then happens is that a moron like the french "Le Pen" uses it as "easy to chew" propaganda. I dont want to compare that to Hitler, but he did a simillar approach: "say what noone dares to say and you get the votes"! And noone should ever let those extreme parties deal with the issue

[Akira 0]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....inter=1

Thats helping the situation.......

[Longinius 1]

test

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ June 10 2002,14:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Screw statistics!! You never always know all the elements that are included or being left out! Just take a regular look at your local newspaper and you know that there is a very precise focus-group for crimes. Especially capital-crimes such as drug business, prostitution and car-stealing-dealing are in the hands of ethnical minorities. Of course you could now say: how rassist you are Albert!!! But it in fact I am not! I am not saying that basically every imigrant is a thief, but I am saying that basically every street-crime is committed by one!<span id='postcolor'>

Statistics say otherwise. What you can say is that there is a disproportion between percent of crimes comitted by immigrants and the percent of immigrants in the population. Then again if you compare the average immigrants social situation and the average native person's, you'll see that there are even greater disproportions. I would like even to say that considering the economical-social situation for immigrants it is strange that they are not comitting more crimes.

[Oligo 1]

Webster says:

Main Entry: Sem·ite

Pronunciation: 'se-"mIt, esp British 'sE-"mIt

Function: noun

Etymology: French sémite, from Semitic Shem, from Late Latin, from Greek SEm, from Hebrew ShEm

Date: 1848

1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs b : a descendant of these peoples

2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language

So a "semite" means the hebrews, but also the arabs. It's an ethnic term really, referring to the ethnic group that initially populated palestinia (some of them had a jewish religion, some had islamic and some christian). Nowadays not all israeli jews are ethnically semites, but most of palestinians are, as far as I know. I think the word "anti-semite" is being used a tad bit wrongly around the world.

And here we come to the root of the problem in Mid East. The land belongs to the semites, not to all jews or moslems or christians. But the shit has been hitting the fan there for such a long time that the war has turned into a religious thing. So nothing much can be done, because both sides are right to some degree. Tough.

[Noone 4]

"Nowadays not all israeli jews are ethnically semites"

Correction. Not israeli jews, but israelis. Not all Israelis are jews, but all jews are semites. It's like saying that not all russians are slavic or not all fins are scandinavians. But not all citizens of RF are slavic and so on. So separete race from citizenship.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So separete race from citizenship.

<span id='postcolor'>

And religion too. You can be slavic or arabic and be a jew as well

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Noone @ June 14 2002,09:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Correction. Not israeli jews, but israelis. Not all Israelis are jews, but all jews are semites. It's like saying that not all russians are slavic or not all fins are scandinavians. But not all citizens of RF are slavic and so on. So separete race from citizenship.<span id='postcolor'>

Not all russians are slavic and not all fins are scandinavians. It's even more so in Israel, which was built by people gathering from all over the world. The bloodlines of these people have been "diluted" by other ethnic groups during the long diaspora. It's only natural and it's caused by the scattering of the original semitic jews (jew here = religion) around the world. Religion is inherited easier than genes.

[Noone 4]

No. VERY few non-genetic jews were acepted into jewdaism, so we cant talk about any tendantion. And those who have "depleted" their genetic jewish heritage are no longer considered jews by jews. So, most jews are jews geneticaly, very few - jews by religion and lots of jews are jews geneticaly and atheists by religion. Jews are VERY strict about genetic heritage (the religious jews) - they prohibit marrying non-jews etc to preserve heritage. And they also make it very hard for non-genetic jews from converiting into jewdaism. So there are three factors here : religion, race and citizenship. Not all israelis are jews and not all jews are jewdaists. Oh, and if you say russian - you mean slavic, otherwise he is, lets say tatarian - russian citizen.

[Guest]

How about an ethnic jew that has converted to islam? What is he, a "muslim jew"?

I personally most often use the term 'israeli', as in citizen of Israel - in that way you can avoid possible confusions.

[Oligo 1]

Reading my reply, I can see this can get confusing. Mebbe I'll clarify:

In Finland, the citizens are called Finns. Ethnically, Finns are mostly scandinavian, but some of them are slavic and semitic and so forth. Religiously, Finns are mostly Protestant Christian, but there are also Jews and Moslems and Orthodox Christians and so on. These three different classifications are not necessarily linked, e.g. there can be a Finn who is slavic and jewish. Or a Finn who is semitic and moslem or semitic and jewish or semitic and christian.

In Israel, the citizens are called Israelis. Ethnically, some of the israelis are semitic, but not nearly all of them, because of the diaspora of the jewish semitic people that happened in history. During the Exodus, lots of jewish people of different ehtnic background (semitic, slavic, etc.) came in and founded Israel.

The pals however, are mostly semitic moslems, who never left the place, never had a diaspora. Thus their ethnicity has not been diluted.

This complexity is the reason the area is such a clusterfuck.