The boast-about-your-fave-fighting-force-thread

[Benze 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (zverushka @ April 03 2002,13:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Timoshenko invented paratrooping. As you can guess, he was Russsian.

It was called "Vertical attack"

Timoshenko also invented Panzerblitz. DUring the pact with Nazi Germany, they exchanged ideas with guderian. The result: blitzkreig.

I'm not sure about the fallshirmjager but I think it was due to the exchange of ideas too.

Timoshenko was executed right before the war for being a German spy.

All these things about your favorite USMC is total bollocks, Americans just getting credit for what they diddn't do.<span id='postcolor'>

I didn't say the USMC invented all those genious.

They did not invent paratrooping or tank assault (why the hell would americans call it "panzerblitz"? ), but they did invent/write the book on the modern versions of the last three.

[Benze 0]

If some of you could read peoples posts better...

[Warin 0]

Benze,

I think the point they are all trying to make is that while the USMC is in fact a good fighting force, other nations do just as well, often with less.

Though, with the topic of the thread being 'boast' I cant blame you for being proud of the Marines. Mother Green and her Killing Machine, to quote Rafterman.

[Guest]

I think that you should keep in mind that the Marines are regular soldiers and not some special ops unit. They are just as good as any other NATO amphibious unit.

[KingBeast 0]

According to Hutchinson fact finder 1999 edition:

John Frederick Charles Fuller (1878 - 1966)

British major general and military theorist who propounded the concept of armoured warfare which, when interpreted by the Germans, became blitzkrieg in 1940.

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think that you should keep in mind that the Marines are regular soldiers and not some special ops unit. They are just as good as any other NATO amphibious unit. <span id='postcolor'>

This is absolutely correct. Although many Marines claim that the entire Corps is a spec ops unit. The USMC is under the Dept. of the Navy not SOCOM. MArine Force Recon is howerer, a SOCOM unit.

SOCOM UNITS:

Army:

-Special Forces Command: (1st/3rd/5th/7th/10th Groups regular army, 19th & 20th Groups National Guard.)

-1st SFOD (Delta)

-160th SOAR

-75th Infantry Rgt. (Ranger)

-Psyops (various units)

Navy:

SEALS/CRT

Marine Corps:

-Force Recon

Air Force

-Pararescue (PJ's)

[madmike 0]

I think the gurkhas are a bloody good fight force, they arnt allowed to draw their knieves unless thet draw blood, if they dont kill or injure someone then they must cut themselves.

Also they want to be in the army becuase the wages are so high compared to farming in their country. They are also nice guys to talk to but I wouldnt want to fight against them

They were disappointed after the Falklans becuase the ememy heard that they were coming and ran becuase rumours were spread that the Gurkhas dont take prisoners

[scout 0]

here is data about the outcome of dogfight Ex. between two countries: 10-251

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (madmike @ April 04 2002,21:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think the gurkhas are a bloody good fight force, they arnt allowed to draw their knieves unless thet draw blood, if they dont kill or injure someone then they must cut themselves.

Also they want to be in the army becuase the wages are so high compared to farming in their country. They are also nice guys to talk to but I wouldnt want to fight against them

They were disappointed after the Falklans becuase the ememy heard that they were coming and ran becuase rumours were spread that the Gurkhas dont take prisoners<span id='postcolor'>

gurkhas?

What country are they from?

[scout 0]

gurkhas are nepalese unit within the british army.

they are superb fighters and are known for many brave actions in combat

[madmike 0]

The gurkhas also serve in the Indian army in higher numbers.

I think they switch between these two countries but the British wages and Pension are so high compared to their standard of life. A soldier is a wealthy man.

As said by scout they are brave have one many VCs which is the highest honour given for bravery.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ April 04 2002,22:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">gurkhas are nepalese unit within the british army.

they are superb fighters and are known for many brave actions in combat<span id='postcolor'>

Well, as I said.. in the Partnership for Peace NATO excersise in Norway they and the US Marines got lost despite that we all had GPS recievers

They have pretty cool knifes/swords - whatever you call them.

[rpc007 0]

exercises dont determine real life performance, last time I checked the marines were kicking ass

[Joe Porta 0]

"They have pretty cool knifes/swords - whatever you call them."

It is called a Khukuri:

There generally used for path clearing in the jungle but are quite good for decapitating someone if the need may arise  

"Well, as I said.. in the Partnership for Peace NATO excersise in Norway they and the US Marines got lost despite that we all had GPS recievers"

I would like to see you in there home enviroment dense jungle humidity around 75, sound fun? (i mean this in a light hearted way ofcourse)

http://www.army.mod.uk/infantry/gurkha/

[E6Hotel 0]

Sorry for the length of this post, but as an active duty Marine, I’d like to rebut a few statements before they're accepted as fact:

“Although many Marines claim that the entire Corps is a spec ops unit. The USMC is under the Dept. of the Navy not SOCOM. MArine Force Recon is howerer (sic), a SOCOM unit.â€

Wrong.  Neither Force Recon nor any other Marine unit is under SOCOM. The Corps is the only service which has refused to join the command at an organizational level.  “It goes against the reason the Marine Corps was developed,†says a Marine officer who is a special operations specialist. “It would have forced the Corps to focus on one mission, when the nation needed an amphibious force for forcible entry, with much broader capabilities.† 

(However, there has been scuttlebutt recently that we might be added to SOCOM in the future – who knows?)

“I think that you should keep in mind that the Marines are regular soldiers and not some special ops unit.â€

Wrong.  In addition to “tip of the spear†operations such as assaulting beachheads, a Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable) must be trained in over two dozen “special†missions ranging from direct action raids to in-extremis hostage rescue.  An example would be the 1995 Tactical Recovery of Aircraft and Personnel mission to rescue USAF Captain Scott O’Grady in Bosnia.  That TRAP was planned from start to finish in 6 hours and executed by an 81mm mortar platoon.  “This broad focus in training and qualifications makes the Marine unit more versatile than any other service’s special operations forces.â€

(BTW:  We’re called Marines, not soldiers.  We’ve earned that right.  Thanks.)

“They are just as good as any other NATO amphibious unit.â€

 

Wrong.  But don’t take my word for it.

Ask the Germans, who named us “Teufelhunden†(“Devil Dogsâ€) and rated us as “Shock Troops†at Belleau Wood.

Ask Japanese Rear Admiral Keiji Shibasaki, who boasted "a million men cannot take Tarawa in 100 years." It took us 76 hours.

Ask the Chinese at the Chosin Reservoir, where the 1st Marine Division fought its way through 10 ChiComm divisions.  These 10 divisions were routed and never saw action again in the Korean War.

Ask the VietCong, whose fear of USMC scout/sniper Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock led them to offer a $30,000 bounty on his head.

Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, Bouganville, Lewis “Chesty†Puller, “Manila John†Basilone, Greg “Pappy†Boyington – read about these battles and Marines and then tell me we’re just another NATO unit.

“Every Marine I know whines about how thier (sic) gear sucks and how underfunded they are.â€

Okay, this one’s probably true – but NOBODY does more with less than we do.  And as any grunt NCO can tell you, “a bitching Marine is a happy Marine.† 

The point of Benze's original post is simple:  Of the 5 major tactical innovations in 20th century warfare, the USMC was responsible for 3 of them (amphibious assault, close air support, and heliborne assault).  I’m not trying to knock any other service, because every Marine knows that Rangers, SEALs, and PJs are just Marines that accidentally went into the wrong recruiting office.  

Semper Fi

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Timoshenko invented paratrooping. As you can guess, he was Russsian.

<span id='postcolor'>

Hmmm, amazing what you can do with a bedsheet, bungee cords and a bottle of vodka.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ April 05 2002,05:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Timoshenko invented paratrooping. As you can guess, he was Russsian.

<span id='postcolor'>

Hmmm, amazing what you can do with a bedsheet, bungee cords and a bottle of vodka.<span id='postcolor'>

LOL!!!

[scout 0]

well E6H, about those shoe string budgets? yes, if we had your "shoe string" budget we would be overjoyed. in fact u ahve one of the best budgets iv'e seen.

we actualy would go and pick up all the gear u marines leave on your training grounds

u dont believe what we recover.

[Bonfire 0]

well Canada doesn't have a large military, infact we are second from the bottom in NATO for military spending [just a little ahead of luxembourg(sp?)]

anywho, our elite guys are called Joint Taskforce 2 (or JT2)

its kinda like SAS or seals, maybe more of a swat team on steriods.   there a pretty secretive bunch, but as far as i know, its an anti terrorism thing.  

They are in Afganistan right now....

[scout 0]

heck, we had ppl from our SF forces train US SF in a new missile we have for the US op in Afganistan

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ April 05 2002,05:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">“They are just as good as any other NATO amphibious unit.â€

 

Wrong.  But don’t take my word for it.

Ask the Germans, who named us “Teufelhunden†(“Devil Dogsâ€) and rated us as “Shock Troops†at Belleau Wood.

Ask Japanese Rear Admiral Keiji Shibasaki, who boasted "a million men cannot take Tarawa in 100 years." It took us 76 hours.

Ask the Chinese at the Chosin Reservoir, where the 1st Marine Division fought its way through 10 ChiComm divisions.  These 10 divisions were routed and never saw action again in the Korean War.

Ask the VietCong, whose fear of USMC scout/sniper Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock led them to offer a $30,000 bounty on his head.

Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, Bouganville, Lewis “Chesty†Puller, “Manila John†Basilone, Greg “Pappy†Boyington – read about these battles and Marines and then tell me we’re just another NATO unit.

Okay, this one’s probably true – but NOBODY does more with less than we do.  And as any grunt NCO can tell you, “a bitching Marine is a happy Marine.† <span id='postcolor'>

I cannot help it, but I noticed that you boasted a lot about Marine accomplishments in WWII. You also claimed that NOBODY does more with less than marines do.

I'd like to point out that finnish troops achieved significantly more with less in WWII. You might want to read up on the Winter War, which was one of the preludes to WWII, and the Continuation War, which was fought parallel to the german invasion of Soviet Union. Especially in the Winter War, the finns beat vastly superior forces with abysmal equipment (some of the troops the army only gave an insignia pin and a belt, no weapon included). Our casualties in the Winter War were about 25 000, Soviet casualties were 1 000 000 of the invading 1 500 000. Although we offically 'lost' the war, Finland was not occupied so we retained our independency.

Also, the two best snipers in history are finns: Simo Häyhä and Suko Kolkka. By the way, they used iron sights.

Statistics

So although the marines are good troops, the finns definitely achieved more with less in WWII.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Joe Porta @ April 05 2002,03:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Well, as I said.. in the Partnership for Peace NATO excersise in Norway they and the US Marines got lost despite that we all had GPS recievers"

I would like to see you in there home enviroment dense jungle humidity around 75, sound fun? (i mean this in a light hearted way ofcourse)<span id='postcolor'>

Hehe.. I guess you are right

[E6Hotel 0]

Scout – Considering the size of the Corps, the flexibility and firepower we provide, and the number and frequency of “jobs†we’re assigned, our budget is PROPORTIONALLY small – in the neighborhood of 5% of the total U.S. defense budget.  Obviously, the total funding we receive is going to be higher than some other organizations, but you and Oligo seem to be focusing on the “with less,†and ignoring the “does more.â€

About the recovered gear – what are my undisciplined nasties forgetting?  Canteens?  Machine guns?  Amtracs?  I’m surprised that we’re leaving stuff behind, as we have to pay for lost gear out of our own pockets.  Then again, I know Marines that used to go out and scour the DevGroup’s training areas in Dam Neck for dropped magazines, maglites, etc.  Sounds almost like “trickle-down†economics.  

Oligo – Let me start by paraphrasing what I said in my first post: It is not my intention to insult other services of my country or any other.  (Well, not seriously insult, anyway.)  The “My SF can beat up your SF†arguments on this board usually border on the retarded.  Now that that’s out of the way:  

 

I don’t think stating battle results or what our previous enemies have said or done constitutes "boasting."  If I wanted to brag, I’d post what we say about ourselves.  (Heh.)

You seem to have taken two separate points (the USMC's historical performance and the "nobody does more with less" statement), combined them, and interpreted them as "nobody has EVER done more with less."  That's not what I was saying, but being somewhat pigheaded by nature (occupational hazard), let's see where we can go with this...

Regarding the Winter War:  As an American and God help me, a Marine, I obviously believe we single-handedly defeated the Soviet Union in World War One and that “U-571†was an accurate movie.  Furthermore, I only have partial higher brain function.  << SARCASM MODE OFF >>  However, I am reasonably familiar with the Winter War, as some of us Jarheads take the “professional warriors study military history so as not to repeat mistakes, etc. etc. stuff†seriously.  Finland’s use of geography and small-unit tactics to break up and then destroy a large part of the invading Soviet force was a brilliant example of unconventional warfare.  If I’m not mistaken, some historians think that Finland’s resistance actually convinced Hitler that Germany could successfully invade Russia.  But you also need to consider the caliber of the enemy: In ‘39-’40 the Soviet army consisted of conscripted farmboys untrained in Arctic warfare.  These soldiers were “led†by an officer corps that had been gutted of creativity and initiative during Stalin’s purges of the 30’s.  Pit these troops against the unorthodox tactics and high morale of the Finnish, who were fighting for their national survival.  Throw in one of the coldest winters of the century.  The end result: A meat grinder, or a target-rich environment, depending on your perspective.  

Again, this is not an attempt to slight the Finnish soldiers.  Putting up a good fight against 50-to-1 odds is incredible, but strategically speaking, I have a problem accepting a loss as an achievement, especially if you’re attempting to compare it to the USMC’s performance in WWII.  << ZIPS FLAME SUIT>>

Regarding snipers:  I’m also curious about your criteria for judging the two Finns as the best snipers in history.  It's only my opinion, but I don't think it's realistic to specify anyone as "the best," because environments, enemy skill, equipment, training, and other factors will always make it "apples to oranges."

Semper Fi

[nordin dk 0]

Best fighting force ever, and I thought we had already settled this question:

The Special Carrot Service

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nordin dk @ April 06 2002,09:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Best fighting force ever, and I thought we had already settled this question:

The Special Carrot Service

<span id='postcolor'>

Oh my god, are that the green, glowing carrots that i found in a trunk in my garden and that i ate some of ?!

Yeah man, they kick ass!