The boast-about-your-fave-fighting-force-thread

[Gorgi Knootewoot 0]

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 03 2002,02:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cloney @ April 03 2002,02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You want to make love to the women and drink wine and make friends with everyone? French Army<span id='postcolor'>

FAMAS... ribbed for her pleasure <!--emo&<span id='postcolor'>

LOLOLOL  

the FAMAS is one of the best gun i know :

accurate , powerfull , short , ergonomic and a very good fiability , perfect for CQB

it can use m16 mags , can use reflex sights and sopelem IR sights , you can attach an m203 launcher to it

this gun is 30 years old , but it will be a part of the FELIN (like the american landwarrior program)

imagine this baby with an  AT rifle grenade attached on the barrel

FAMAS with M203 : this rifle has only been issued in some special forces units

FAMAS G1 and FAMAS G2 :standard french army issue

French soldiers refer to it as "le Clairon." But this bugle spits bullets. It is not a pretty weapon - in fact, it's downright ugly. Esthetics, however, are of small consequence in the design of efficient weaponry.

France's newest service rifle, the FA MAS (Fusil Automatique, Manufacture d'Armes de St. Etienne), has already demonstrated itself to be an effective and generally well-conceived piece of ordnance. First introduced in 1973 and subsequently modified, the FA MAS was adopted by the French armed forces and placed into production in 1979. Manufactured by GIAT (Groupement Industriel des Armements Terrestres) at their St. Etienne arsenal, a semiautomatic-only version of this interesting assault rifle has been imported in limited quantity by Century International Arms.

After generations of discordant calibers - such as the 7.5mm rifle and 7.65mm Long pistol cartridges - the French finally decided to play in NATO's orchestra and chambered the FA MAS for what is essentially the U.S. 5.56x45mm M193 cartridge. It differs only by virtue of its Berdan primed steel case. Compatibility with NATO has been served and France now has a cartridge with proven efficiency in causing casualties.

Hands-on use of this weapon has produced compliments - SOF's Paul Fanshaw, who employed the FA MAS rifle extensively while serving as a platoon sergeant in the French Foreign Legion, awards it a clean bill of health in all regards.

Of so-called bullpup configuration, the FA MAS measures only 30.28 inches in overall length. Complete with flash suppressor, the barrel is 19.5 inches long. Oddly cut with only three grooves, the rifling's rate of right-hand twist remains one turn in every 12 inches. An optional pitch of one turn in 9 inches is available as a compromise to accommodate the SS109 projectile. But in spite of its compactness, the FA MAS weighs 8.0 lbs. empty and minus the bipod - at the outer limits by today's standards. Steel parts are phosphate finished and the receiver has been anodized gray.

Firing from the closed-bolt position, the method of operation is by means of delayed blowback. While this principle smacks of Heckler & Koch (early prototypes of the FA MAS were pictured with the G3 bayonet), the delay system has been taken directly from the French AA 52 General Purpose Machine Gun.

A black plastic lower handguard, pinned to the barrel and receiver, extends back to the magazine well and cannot be removed. To accommodate the bullpup configuration, the trigger mechanism and pistol grip have been mounted to the lower handguard, forward of the magazine well. The ergonomically-designed pistol grip has three finger grooves and a storage trap which contains a plastic bottle of lubricant.

The sheet-metal trigger guard can be pulled away from its rear retaining pin and rotated 180 degrees for firing with gloves under arctic conditions. The trigger is connected to a long, thin strip of sheet-metal which rides in a slot on the right side of the receiver and reaches the hammer mechanism located at the rear of the receiver. Trigger pull-weight was a spongy and variable 8 to 9 lbs. on our test rifle. On the semiauto-only FA MAS, pressing the trigger draws this spring-loaded bar forward to pull both the primary and secondary sears away from the hammer's notch.

A spring-loaded, plastic catch in front of the magazine well must be pressed back to remove a magazine. Magazines are inserted by pushing them straight into the well. No rocking motion is required. There is no hold-open device. But who cares? Thirty million Kalashnikovs have been manufactured without one, as well as millions of G3s and Galils. And they all seem to do just fine in combat.

FA MAS magazines hold 25 rounds and, in my opinion, are superior to those of the M16 series. While not as heavy as Galil or Beretta Model 70 magazines, the sturdy steel bodies are straight-line, without any curvature, with substantial locking tabs punch-welded to the exterior, front and rear, Two-piece floorplates insure rapid disassembly. Only the follower is plastic.

Because the firing pin is withdrawn from the bolt face by the delay lever's rotating cross-piece, there is no need for a spring. Other components of the bolt group include a removable bolt head with a spring-loaded, centrally located "bump"-type ejector, and an extractor and dummy extractor plug.

Being a bullpup, the FA MAS can be modified to fire from either shoulder. To change the FA MAS from right- to left-hand ejection, withdraw the bolt head after removing its notched retaining pin on top of the bolt body, insert the extractor into the left side of the bolt head and the dummy plug into the right side. The extractor will now spin empty cases out to the left. Nothing else is required for left-hand ejection, other than to snap the cheekpiece onto the right side of the buttstock.

This checkpiece was neoprene-covered sheet-metal on early specimens. It is now a light plastic molding, but still quite comfortable. Both ejection ports are cut into the plastic buttstock molding - one or the other being blocked by the cheekpiece. A spring buffer in the top of the buttstock compresses about an inch before rebounding. To reduce costs, it has been eliminated on the semiauto-only version as its cushioning effect on the reciprocating parts is not required in semiautomatic fire. There is a stippled, neoprene buttplate with fixed sling swivels on either side.

The upper handguard certainly contributes more than its share to this rifle's grotesque appearance. It also acts as a carrying handle and protects the sights which rise 3 inches above the bore's axis. A lightweight tubular aluminum bipod has been bolted to a bracket under the handguard. The non-adjustable legs, with plastic feet, fold along the sides of the handguard when not in use. To employ, simply pull out on the leg and rotate to the extended position. This useful feature adds only 6 oz. to the overall weight.

Each FA MAS is equipped with a cleverly designed, ambidextrous web sling. The rear portion attaches, in the conventional manner, to either of the sling swivels on the buttstock. The front clips mount on either of the bipod legs' axis pins, which permit rotation of about 220 degrees and a wide variety of carrying positions.

A spare parts and cleaning kit is also included and it consists of an ejector and spring, extractor, dummy extractor plug, bolt-head retaining pin, plastic cleaning rod with brass tip, bore and chamber brushes, camel's hair brush and a really useful prismatic bore scope.

While bayonets have certainly become an anachronism on today's battlefield, armies continue to issue them. Little time was wasted on designing a bayonet for the FA MAS. What is essentially the MAS 49/56 (French army rifle which preceded the FA MAS) bayonet was adopted. Blade shape resembles that of the U.S. M4-M7 series of knife bayonets. Grip panels are black, uncheckered plastic. There are two muzzle rings. One fits over the flash suppressor, the other on the barrel collar. The rear muzzle ring diminishes the bayonet's value as a fighting or utility knife. The black plastic, locking scabbard has been riveted to a web frog in the U.S. manner.

Firing the FA MAS, or any bullpup assault rifle for that matter, can be somewhat unsettling the first time around. With your face directly over the action, fleeting thoughts of what might happen if the weapon self-destructs are bound to occur. They are but fantasies of course, and nothing we stuffed into the FA MAS brought us anywhere close to red-lining its engine.

Most of the firing sequences were conducted with Portuguese M193-type ball ammunition of 1982 manufacture (headstamped 'FNM 82-17'. What a pleasure it is to fire an assault rifle in this caliber and not have to contend with bolt-over-base stoppages such as those induced by an M16 magazine. There were no malfunctions of any kind.

Accuracy potential was more than acceptable. With winds gusting at 25 mph, 3 MOA, with horizontal dispersion only, was the best we could do at 100 yards.

Felt recoil was quite low, but the perceived muzzle blast, because of the bullpup configuration, was loud. Ejection patterns, which are either to the right or left in direction, varied from 10 to 20 feet from the rifle with a high trajectory for the empty cases. Some cases spun back to scuff the stock slightly.

While they have no heat shields, the handguards are far enough from the barrel to permit a substantial volume of air to circulate. Neither handguard overheated at any time during the test. Balance and handling charactefistics are excellent and the rifle can be shifted quickly to engage multiple targets.

The more I shoot it, the more this grotesque hunchback grows on me. Its unsightly geometry becomes quickly muted by its superb performance. Regardless of the U.S. military's antipathy toward them, bullpup designs will continue to proliferate as the quest for ever more compact individual weapons marches forward. Fit for anyone's front line, the FA MAS should give both the Austrian Steyr AUG and the British Enfield SA 80 a stiff run for the money.

Military organizations and law enforcement agencies can obtain versions with scopes integrated into the carrying handles, training rifles firing 4.5mm pellets by means of C0&sub2; and short-barreled models with 16.5-inch barrels. A new carrying handle that will accept any NATO STANAG scope is also under development.

FAMAS: The Weapon Used by the French Armed Forces

A Shock Weapon

The FAMAS is a basic individual weapon for the fighting soldier, and its multi-mission functions enable the following:

I. Single shot or short burst accurate firing due to:

a long barrel (488mm) in a short weapon (760mm)

a delayed blow back operating system which reduces recoil

300 to 500 meter sights integrated with the barrel

provisions for the attachment of any NATO standard telescopic sight

II. Assault firing:

in the full-automatic mode at a high rate of fire (1,100 rounds/min.)

in the three-round burst mode

III. Support firing:

as an automatic rifle using the optional bipod

as a grenade launcher firing anti-tank (AT), anti-personel (AP), anti-personel anti-vehicle (APAV), smoke, or tear-gas grenades

These functions can all be performed with standard ball ammunition and without any modification to the weapon. They also make the FAMAS a multi-mission weapon adapted to a variety of modern combat needs. It is also well-suited for law-enforcement and VIP protetection due to its accuracy, compactness, and ease of handling.

A Performance Weapon

The FAMAS is solid and reliable; it will withstand, without loss of performance:

Water, mud, sand, and dust

Extreme temperatures ranging from -40°C to +51°C (-40°F to 124°F )

generally adverse field conditions

The FAMAS is compact, light, streamlined, and perfectly balanced around its pistol grip. It can easily be carried in the ready position with the use of a universal sling, thus leaving both hands free while maintaining the weapon on firing stand-by.

It is designed to satisfy particular shooter requirements:

Right or left handed shooters can be accomodated by simply reversing the ejector

The large handguard permits shooting with gloves in extreme cold or NBC environments

The FAMAS can be obtained with a rifling pitch of either 7.9 or 12 inches. It is therefore capable of firing all NATO standard 5.56x45 caliber ammunition, including SS 109 and U.S. M193.

A Sure Weapon

The FAMAS was engineered with reliability and shooter safety in mind. It will not fire a round with the chamber open. It will also withstand 300 rounds fired in 2 minutes without heating enough to induce ammunition 'cook-offs.' Finally, the safety is housed within the handguard, allowing the user to engage or disengage it while maintaining a clear sight picture.

Simple Maintenance

The FAMAS is a relatively simple design which can be field stripped into 9 modular components in less than one minute without the use of tools. Its barrel will retain its accuracy after firing up to 15,000 rounds.

Short FAMAS  

Certain missions, notably those involving unmarked vehicles, require short and compact weapons. For this purpose, GIAT Industries has developed a FAMAS with a barrel that is less than 406mm in length.

[zverushka 0]

Timoshenko invented paratrooping. As you can guess, he was Russsian.

It was called "Vertical attack"

Timoshenko also invented Panzerblitz. DUring the pact with Nazi Germany, they exchanged ideas with guderian. The result: blitzkreig.

I'm not sure about the fallshirmjager but I think it was due to the exchange of ideas too.

Timoshenko was executed right before the war for being a German spy.

All these things about your favorite USMC is total bollocks, Americans just getting credit for what they diddn't do.

[Paratrooper 0]

Zverushka your right, but I think we can safely call "BlitzKrieg" a German invention.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I heard the French grunts hate the bull-pup design

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ April 03 2002,11:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 03 2002,00:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ April 03 2002,00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And btw, Id put Recon Marines up against anybody in the world.<span id='postcolor'>

When I was in the service (1998), we had an exercise with NATO (Partnership for Peace) in Norway. The different units and countrys were ranked.

We from A-dyk (Swedish attack divers) came in first.

Our comrades the Kustjägarna (Swedish marines) came in second.

I think some Italian alpine guys came in third.

The US Marines were among the last, since they got lost in the woods <!--emo& We had some good laughs about that.

I heard that last year some unit from Croatia ( sic! ) came in first.

But to be serious, the US Marines that I have met seemed to be competent chaps, so there is nothing wrong with them. You just shouldn't leave them alone in a Norwegian forrest <span id='postcolor'>

are you sure USMCs were lost? they could be taking their leisure time. They don't know the beauty of Norwegian forrest, so when they started that competition, they could have thought "Screw competition! we'll enjoy this beautiful place!" <span id='postcolor'>

Hehe, I'm sure that that was the case. "Screw the officers! We're going fishin'!

Here are some pictures (from the excersise) of us and kustjägarna showing the marines how a beach landing is supposed to look:

Some US Marines. I never knew you Americans were such treehuggers

[christophercles 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Benze @ April 03 2002,04:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The British tried an amphibious assault at Gallipoli but it was a failure. The USMC has since used perfected it. It is practically the trademark of the marines.<span id='postcolor'>

I wasnt going to post here, until i re-read this.

The british did not do this. You know who did? the anzacs. And you know what happened? we got our fucking asses kicked, becuase the british who dropped the anzacs off, dropped them into the most heavily defended point, and then when they where supposed to send in reinforcements like they where supposed to, they negelected to do so.

But yes, the marines are the ones who do this, but it mostly wasnt them doing it in ww2

[KingBeast 0]

The problem at galipoli was mainly the officers on top, as always. Old fashioned british officers that were living a couple of centures in the past and failed to see that what was happening was mass slaughter :/

And on another subject, I wonder why so many people think that the SAS are solely specialists in CT? :/

The majority of the "work" the SAS has done or does (as far as we know) is military. Ever since they were first created in WW2.

Look at almost every major western conflict over the past 50 or so years and youll see that the SAS were involved.

Im not saying the SAS are definitively the best in the world, but if you compare what we know about every special unit etc in the world, then you cant deny that they are the best 'from what we know'.

So unless the others are keeping secret a lot of glorious exploits, then we will just have to acknowledge that these guys know what they are doing

[scout 0]

we had a joint EX. between the SEALs and our navy commandos.

3 SEAL teams against 3 of ours. the outcome: the SEALs were wiped out, we had 1.5 teams lost.

now dont give me crap ok? that was the outcome. the judges were from both sides. my platoon trained in the area afterwards so i can tell u every SEAL had nice round spot about where the heart is.

any way i agree that it depends what u want to do.

u cant be multi tasked. u always do somthing exellent, and other things somewhat less skillfuly.

[§nake 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 03 2002,16:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Some US Marines. I never knew you Americans were such treehuggers

<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

Hey, whatever works...

(Your just lucky I can't find any USMC pics )

[ChickenHawk 0]

Where u from scout?

[§nake 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ChickenHawk @ April 03 2002,23:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><FONT FACE="Impact" SIZE="5"><FONT COLOR="#FF0000">w</FONT><FONT COLOR="#CC3300">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#996600">e</FONT><FONT COLOR="#669900">r</FONT><FONT COLOR="#33CC00">e</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00FF00"> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#00FF00">u</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00CC33"> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#009966">f</FONT><FONT COLOR="#006699">r</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0033CC">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000FF">m</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000D4">s</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000AA">c</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000055">u</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00002A">t</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000">?</FONT></FONT><span id='postcolor'>

(using my decoding maGik)

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">where u from scout?<span id='postcolor'>

[ChickenHawk 0]

yea yea, so i tried to some html and didnt realise you couldnt use it on this board

The Cav is for life son, Thats airmobile son.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (§nake @ April 03 2002,23:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hey, whatever works...

(Your just lucky I can't find any USMC pics   )<span id='postcolor'>

I can assure you that it would have been much more fun if we hadn't been forced to do the same thing

..trivia: UK's SAS won that element of the competition. So if in a war you need some guys to hug trees for a long time without touching the ground.. call in the Special Air Service!

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 03 2002,23:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (§nake @ April 03 2002,233)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hey, whatever works...

(Your just lucky I can't find any USMC pics   )<span id='postcolor'>

I can assure you that it would have been much more fun if we hadn't been forced to do the same thing

..trivia: UK's SAS won that element of the competition. So if in a war you need some guys to hug trees for a long time without touching the ground.. call in the Special Air Service! <span id='postcolor'>

LOL!!!!

I never thought SAS could be hippies!!!!

[Joe Porta 0]

SAS treehuggers lol!

I was told by an ex-soldier back in the 60s' when the British goverment was gonna send troops into N Ireland that they gave them tree climbing courses for use in Belfast. It wasent till his girlfriend who just happened to be from Belfast said to the CO that the Sahara desert probably has more trees than the estates in Belfast.

Just pointless military trivia from me

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Joe Porta @ April 04 2002,00:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">SAS treehuggers lol!

I was told by an ex-soldier back in the 60s' when the British goverment was gonna send troops into N Ireland that they gave them tree climbing courses for use in Belfast.  It wasent till his girlfriend who just happened to be from Belfast said to the CO that the Sahara desert probably has more trees than the estates in Belfast.

Just pointless military trivia from me  <span id='postcolor'>

Hmm.. so they have a tradition of tree hugging.. well, I can now understand why they won

The Italian alpine troopers (they came in third overall) were not so bad at the treehugging either. As my picture on the previous page shows, the USMC was pretty good at it too.

As for the Italians.. I'm not sure i'd like to have them on my side. Here is why:

This is a picture (from the same excersise) of the Italian alpine guys.. check the guy in the middle who borrowed our GRG (Carl Gustav) for the picture. See anything strange?

Answer: He is holding it backwards!

[madmike 0]

lol.

well I know the SAS are the best.

none of you have siad that they usually observe the enemy for days, weeks or months, then sometimes they may attack

but they are the skilled and have formed nearly all special forces around today and train and teach them new tactics as we speak

[rpc007 0]

DELTA!!!!!! and SAS

[§nake 0]

I thought I would pop in some current United States Armed Forces images for you to drule over..

(note: all the pictures below were taken in the last month, some from the middle east.)

(just thought this was kinda cool)

(an airborne unit)

More where that came from too  

[madmike 0]

they dont make me drool, just think, Im lucky I cant join the US armed forces.

I can join the best force in the world and recieve 1st class trianing and work with skilled people that have common sence.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Denoir, (or anyone)

what's the rifle that the guy squatting in front row, to the right holding? looks pretty big.

[§nake 0]

Ralph, looks like a modified Sig 550

[§nake 0]

yep, sig 550

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (madmike @ April 04 2002,01:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">lol.

well I know the SAS are the best.

none of you have siad that they usually observe the enemy for days, weeks or months, then sometimes they may attack

but they are the skilled and have formed nearly all special forces around today and train and teach them new tactics as we speak<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, shiver trees, shiver! The SAS is coming to climb you!

I always thought that Special Air Service sounded like a union for airplane stewardesses Just kidding, they are real pros.

As I said the only comparison from real life I can come with is that NATO Partnership for Peace excersise in Norway '98.

There were 30-somthing countries participating. Some units were not present, like SEAL, Delta , Rangers, Foregin Legion etc, but some were (USMC, US Army, SAS, Ghurkas, Royal Marines).

The excersise was divided in smaller separate elements like physical endurance, navigation, shooting, first aid and larger like beach assult, taking an airport, CQC. For each element points were awarded to each unit.

The two top positions were won by Swedish A-Dyk (my unit) and our friends Kustjägarna. Perhaps it wasn't really fair since the nature in Norway is very similar to the one in Sweden, so we had that advantage. The third place was taken by some Italian unit.

If I remember correctly SAS came in about 10th. The biggest surprise were the USMC and the Ghurkas who got lost in the woods and performed utterly bad in almost every discipline - hell, they were beaten by the regular Estonian army -and came last. I guess they had a bad day or something (more like four bad days actually)...

We had a parallel amphibious assult with the Marines - they were supposed to take the left side of the island and we the right side. They got lost again - I really don't know how they pulled that off since we all had GPS recievers...

Ok.. some pictures from the Norway adventure:

Big inspection, there were a lot of them:

Beach assult. This is where the marines got lost.

Capture the airport. Pretty fun:

Not so fun excersise:

Me (to the left) and a squad buddy eating breakfast and getting ready for some scuba-diving in the *cold* norwegian waters:

Close Quarters Combat, pretty fun, a bit silly.

.50 Cal shooting. Some French some Royal Marines and some SAS guys here:

One thing that you learned in the military - it was to sleep anywhere: