Types of Warheads

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

Could somebody please explain to me the uses for the different warheads in this game for both the SMAW and RPG? I do know their real-life purposes but in-game their roles seems pretty universal.

Edited October 10, 2009 by JuggernautOfWar

[manberries 0]

A tad copy of the information I put in the RPG thread, but here goes.

PG-7v(l) - Single explosive HEAT. Effective anti-tank round against antiquated tanks, or lightly to medium armored IFVs. Should penetrate the AAVP7 and LAV-25 everytime (in real life), but the M1126 Stryker can take a frontal hit and be ok (not taking cage armor into account), Bradley will shrug most of them off as long as the rear or certain angles aren't hit. A small effect against infantry, especially if behind hard cover. 500mm RHA

PG-7vr - Tandem HEAT. Effective against modern main battle tanks, including the Leopard 2A6, M1A1HC, M1A2SEP, M1A2TUSK to give a few examples. Will not penetrate frontal armor, but weaker armor spots gives this round plenty of opportunity to penetrate within 1 or 2 shots. Even if it does not penetrate it can cause a bit of damage requiring the target tank to be repaired lest it suffer a weak point. Works by placing two explosives in a row, the first sets of any reactive armor, and the second pushes through the reactive armor's effect attempting to penetrate passive armor. 600-700mm RHA

There are more rounds, but those are the only two in Arma if I remember correctly.

SMAW HEAA - Effective against modern passive armor, but generally defeated by ERA (not in game though). Simple rod explosive design, lacking tandem warhead needed to combat most modern MBTs (in game it is actually plenty effective against the T-90, despite its K-5 ERA or possible Relikit ERA if we are to assume it is a future T-90). Generally, completely ineffective against infantry, even when behind hard cover. 600mm armor penetration, NOT RHA penetration as RHA means ERA protected. Proven only effective against T-55 with outdated and badly designed ERA upgrade.

SMAW HEDP - Effective against lightly armored targets. This round sacrifices penetration for more explosive. The HEAA round may penetrate a lightly armored vehicle more easily, but do less damage due to the lack of explosive power. The HEDP will do significantly more damage upon penetration. It is also more effective against infantry, especially if behind hard cover. (Realistically, it is totally useless in game because the HEAA takes out a vehicle as thoroughly as an HEDP).

So the final note is, grab the PG-7vr and HEAA whenever possible because the game does not properly represent the advantages of the other types of rounds (particularly price).

Edited October 11, 2009 by manberries

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

Thanks for the very detailed explanation!

Seems there actually is a third and fourth RPG round. Pretty much what I was asking was in your last paragraph. As I said I know their purposes in real life but I was more curious if the game engine could make use of the differences. Apparently not though, which is slightly disappointing.

[Noraf 0]

the 4 different rockets for the rpg7 ir :

PG7V

PG7VL

PG7VR - most penetration against armour

OG7 - he round

and for the smaw you got the 2 manberries siad.

If i'm a smaw gunner, i usualy preffer 2 aa rounds for enemy armour, and a dp for fortified infantery possitions, light vihecles and minor mayhem.

ps : The rounds have different handlings\effeckts ingame

[manberries 0]

Really? I was not aware those rounds were in Arma 2. Must go find them now.

[nkenny 1051]

Excellent rundown manberries. I learned something here.

-K

[Inkompetent 0]

Clarification on the PG-7VL: Single-stage improved HEAT warhead. A less explosive, better penetrating variant of the PG-7V. The middle ground of AT capability and weapon range when it comes to PG-7 AT warheads. Still mostly useful only against light and medium armour, or the rear of MBTs.

[manberries 0]

Ya, the L was put in parentheses because I could not remember if it was put into Arma 2 or not. They added more explosive, reworked the exact cone shape of the copper, and changed the copper alloy a tad. Added 100mm RHA to give the original 400mmRHA up to 500mmRHA.

Edit: Or at least I meant to, but apparently didn't.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

SMAW HEDP being utterly useless? It's my preferred round for it :) As already stated even the HEAA isn't all that good (irl) against modern armor as it is portrayed ingame. In games like Domination which is dominated (excuse the pun) by enemy armor, then you shouldn't leave home without a HEAA round, except if you play on an organized server where you actually roleplay.

The HEDP is completely devastating against troops in the open if you face them without a lawnmover (read: M249), or if you know they are hiding behind hard cover. Its splash damage is superb in these cases. I don't play east much, so I don't know how effective the OG-7V round is in this respect.

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

The M136 is pretty devastating against enemy armor, but how does it compare to the SMAW?

SMAW HEDP being utterly useless? It's my preferred round for it :) As already stated even the HEAA isn't all that good (irl) against modern armor as it is portrayed ingame. In games like Domination which is dominated (excuse the pun) by enemy armor, then you shouldn't leave home without a HEAA round, except if you play on an organized server where you actually roleplay.

The HEDP is completely devastating against troops in the open if you face them without a lawnmover (read: M249), or if you know they are hiding behind hard cover. Its splash damage is superb in these cases. I don't play east much, so I don't know how effective the OG-7V round is in this respect.

I have come to the same conclusion.

[Inkompetent 0]

The M136 can't really compare with the HEAA rocket for the SMAW. It is plainly worse. Beats the HEDP though.

[frederf 0]

Can anyone just post the hit, indirect, and indirect_radius values for these warheads? It's cute to talk about their real life characteristics but in ArmA the "flavor" of a missile is only defined by 3 numbers.

[manberries 0]

You can unpbo the weapons.pbo yourself Frederf, and it doesn't even require you to make some smart ass post.

As for the M136, its pretty useless in real life (even an bmp-1 can survive a frontal hit), as for in-game it does not have as much effect as a SMAW but it is ok against the bmps in-game. The issue with how many rounds you can carry is more the reason why it is useless. With the mod that allows the M136 to be 1 shot and not take any ammo slots definitely makes it useful again.

Finally, the HEDP thing is a matter of preference. I never found it easier to launch a SMAW rocket than to just put a few accurate rounds into them.

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

Can anyone just post the hit, indirect, and indirect_radius values for these warheads? It's cute to talk about their real life characteristics but in ArmA the "flavor" of a missile is only defined by 3 numbers.

Yeah this is pretty much what I want too.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

It should be in that allinone.cpp thingy someone made at release. Don't know if the values have changed during the patches though. I find it a pretty good tool nonetheless.

[vilas 474]

Could somebody please explain to me the uses for the different warheads in this game for both the SMAW and RPG? I do know their real-life purposes but in-game their roles seems pretty universal.

poor

i see many people DO NOT UNDERSTAND what you said

you said YOU KNOW THEM IN REAL LIFE but you try to understand it how it works in GAME

than understand this:

this game has poor destruction simulation, poor material simulation engine

it almost the same as OFP structure (config, models)

so this is following:

hit - power of round, takes away armor of target to destroy it

indirect hit and indirect hit range are about not exact hit

main difference is :

HEAT are destructing anything they hit exactly, accurately and nothing more (1 meter away for example)

HE can destroy other things in some meters around

there are some calculations factors between hit and explosion hit

but mainly - it is no different how you call it SABOT, HEAT or surrealistic super laser ammo , you can make 5.56 bullet rifle with hit=1000 and it will blow up tank too

in game it works the same

HE is like "grenade round"

for example i made myself home stupid addon of rifle, that bullet destroys half of city :)

simple: hit = 50 000 , indirect = 5 000 , in.h.r. = 50

but of course explosion energy decreases also ABOVE this range

i have no idea is BIS explosion decreases lineary or hyperbolycally

but if indirect hit range is 5 meters and it's power is more than 20 , than you can be killed even 10 meters away

for example from my stupid rifle you can be killed 150 meters away from explosion point :)

so i cannot tell you when (linear or hyperbolycal/parabolycal) hit decreases to 0 in game

from this you see - there is no shrapnel simulation (maybe Arma3 or 4 and 5 GHz CPU)

in game you have no real life differences in weight/range

lighter rocket for RPG is used for 500 meters, heavy for 300 meters

there is no difference in game

in in game you have defined in ammo sections values, than rocket can follow target (all AA rockets in game and ATGMs)

but generally there is no difference for AI to shoot HE, HEAT, Sabot

so yes - in game their role is universal, cause engine of OFP,Arma not shows penetration

for example you don't have bulletproof vests in this game

you can destroy APC by fire from machinegun to it's side (no fuel to explode....)

so according to this, yes - in game they are universal

in game you have differences:

- rocket follows target or not follows

- rocker follows laser or not

- rocket hit only one point (indirect hit =0 in all HEATS and SABOTS) or destruction is in some range (e.g. 5 m)

- rocket destroys by power of explosion (HE) or not

if explosive=1 than whole power of hit is from ammo section

if explosive =0 than whole power is from it's speed and hit calculation (simulation of kinetic energy)

there is no difference if you fire in ERA block or solid steel

your AI will not differ HE, HEATs

so soldiers with Stingers will attack tank too

tank with HEAT will fire at infantry squad

for example in Project 85 or modern Polish army weapons:

- i made different looking warheads for RPG, but of course engine of game has limitation, so my thermobaric warhead can destroy tank too, simply it has explossion effect of very big flame

difference between V, VL, VR is in it's power of hit

so when you will fire 2 weak rockets it is like fireing 1 strong rocket

while in real life not

in real life :

if rocket penetrates 250 mm of steel (for example)

and example tank has armor 500 mm of steel (for example)

and you fired 2 rockets than ...

500-250 mm = alive, and ... 2 hits and nothing, cause you'll never hit the same place with RPG

in real life you must hit other place or use strong rocket

in game NO

in game first rocket took some power(life, health) of vehicle and second rocket took another part of life,health...

so in game strong tank (example) will explode after 2-3 weak rockets

while in real life even if you will hit turret front 3 times it won't

in real life you can shot bullet proof vest 2-3 times from pistol (weak like Makarov) and soldier is alive and he can kill you by rifle, of course he feels pain

in game ?

one bullet took some his health, second bullet took another percentage and he is dead

so in GAME for example 2 shots of 9mm para kills aswell as 1 7.62 full rifle bullet in chest

while in real life 1 full rifle will penetrate and kill soldier in vest

while 2-3 shots from pistol will only make pain of kick to this soldier , he will stand up and use his rifle against you (maybe broken bone of chest)

you must treat game weapons as accounting ;)

+ and -

health , armor is + and weapon make - and takes away some percent of health/armor

i haven't tested how many hand grenades are necessary to destroy for example BMP, cause every grenade will take some % of health

but in real life one box of M249 will not destroy APC, in game it can

tanks have values of armor from 400 to 1000

while HEATs (tank HEAT or RPG HEAT) have at point where it hits for example 600 and 0 one meter away

HE have for example 200 and have 20 in range 6 meters away

so you can kill squad of infantry using HE or kill tank using HEAT, but not when you do oposite

i hope i helped, if not, ask me another question to clarify to understand differences between warheads in this game

Edited October 15, 2009 by vilas

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

THANK YOU good sir.

[BigJonnyC 10]

Very good post Villas

[vilas 474]

M136 ammo

hit = 335; indirectHit = 11; indirectHitRange = 1.1;

RPG18 ammo

hit = 300; indirectHit = 7.5; indirectHitRange = 1;

oldest RPG ammo R_PG7V_AT

hit = 208; indirectHit = 20; indirectHitRange = 2;

typical RPG ammo R_PG7VL_AT

hit = 320; indirectHit = 10; indirectHitRange = 1;

Tandem VR RPG ammo

hit = 510; indirectHit = 20;

anti personel RPG OG7_AT

hit = 75; indirectHit = 20; indirectHitRange = 12;

SMAW HEDP ammo

hit = 150; indirectHit = 40; indirectHitRange = 12;

SMAW anti tank ammo

hit = 480; indirectHit = 12; indirectHitRange = 1.2;

Javelin ammo

hit = 800; indirectHit = 20; indirectHitRange = 2;

Stinger ammo

hit = 70; indirectHit = 50; indirectHitRange = 8;

Strela ammo

hit = 66; indirectHit = 50; indirectHitRange = 8;

Igla ammo

hit = 70; indirectHit = 50; indirectHitRange = 8;

Metis launcher ammo :

hit = 670; indirectHit = 16; indirectHitRange = 1.5;

______________

it should help autor of topic to clarify his wonders more

concerning those values, some of them are not enough realistic for me

RPG 18 is weak warhead, but in game it is almost the same power as typical RPG 7 VL HEAT warhead

some warheads in game are designed more as counter parts than as realism

in Project 85 power or hit is stronger and it is more complexed and divided, if you wish i can post later , tommorow P85 values

but your question was about default game warheads

my long post was theory, now you see strict values from weapons config from 1.03 version

maybe BIS changed some things, i must look for any "fix" files and if there are "fix" config changes

if there is no changed balistics since i decrypted BIS configs , than those values are valid

i will put for you some vehicles values to account HIT values from warheads with vehicles

but please take under mind, that "armorstructural" parameter changes reaction on destruction (crew get out and run instead immediate explosion and die)

this "arm..." value can change reaction and make for example BUG like "BMP stronger than tank"

cause tank exploded and ... BMP not yet, but fired some rounds, crew disembark.. etc.

there is such bug in Arma as i remember

please fire some 25 rounds from LAV to : BMP2 and T72, please check yourself how many bullet you need to kill BMP and how many to kill T72 (you know, tank has 400 mm armor and BMP is protecting transported infantry against typical rifles as 7.62 and some 12.7mm rounds)

new APCs protect more and are better, but noone can compare APC with main battle tank in real life

APC ( armorStructural = 4; )

BMP2: armor = 250;

BMP3: armor = 300;

AAV armor = 210;

TANK ( armorStructural = 2; )

T72: armor = 690;

T90: armor = 800;

M1A1: armor = 850;

TUSK: armor = 900; (hahahahaha, don't you think ? whole tank in ERA blocks and only 50 more ? 6-7% stronger ?)

Edited October 16, 2009 by vilas

[vilas 474]

up, for topic starter, did you get this table ?

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

Yeah that's exactly what I was looking for! Thanks vilas!

[frederf 0]

I don't understand how armorStrutural and armor values work.

[vilas 474]

me too :P

hehehe

armor structural makes vehicle stronger and longer reacting on dammage

i was not testing it too much so i cannot say for 100% how it is calculating to whole vehicle strength multiplication

but normal armor works simply - the more, the stronger vehicle