I remember.

[Dajunka 10]

These classic games were the very highest in entertainment, unfortunately with the birth of very powerful computers came the death of such games.

One of my favorite games from the past was called Lords of midnight, a fantastic game that gave me endless enjoyment. Lords of midnight was rewritten for the PC, the result was a absolutely abortion of the original game.

Call me a doom merchant but I can only see the same sort of thing happening with this new version of Carrier command, the programmers always have to go to far and mess things up. For one, if this version of Carrier command has troops and pilots etc: It will not be a remake of Carrier Command it will just be yet another version of Command and conquer.

The feeling that you alone were controlling everything from the bridge of that carrier was one of the magic ingredients of this game.

I still hope beyond hope that this game is true to the original.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Dajunka

[Guest]

BIS won't screw this up :)

You should take a look at the Arma 2 forums, and see bohemia's heratage and involvement with the community.

They are one of the best developers out there, and always strive to make the best game that the community wants, not what their wallet wants.

If you have a good pc and like combat sims, you should try Arma 2 :)

[dialektiikka 10]

In previous interviews Marek Španěl & co, the powers that be in BIS, have stated that the original Carrier Command prompted them to start work on OFP.

These guys are Carrier Command fans themselves. I don't think they'll let us down after going to the trouble of getting hold of CC rights. And if they do... we can allways mod it to our liking ;)

[Intezar 10]

This is a huge title. I have plenty of memories from the old Carrier Command. ARMA/ARMA2 and such games are filled with bugs and seem to lack play-testing. One of my greatest concerns is that this game, although with great graphics and ideas, will turn out broken.

Do not let us down please. Take your time developing the game.

[Dajunka 10]

But they seem to be holding to the idea of having troops, just this fact alone would destroy the entire concept of the original Carrier command, it simply would not be Carrier command more a game loosely based on Carrier command.

[Intezar 10]

The crew of the carrier only supposedly has a skeleton guard of human troopers among them. Therefore most of the troops used in combat, if not all of them, are combat droids. If they too can be 'controlled from the bridge' like the vehicles in the classic game, they'll safely be able to integrate that into the game without ruining the Carrier Command experience.

[Dajunka 10]

The crew of the carrier only supposedly has a skeleton guard of human troopers among them. Therefore most of the troops used in combat, if not all of them, are combat droids. If they too can be 'controlled from the bridge' like the vehicles in the classic game, they'll safely be able to integrate that into the game without ruining the Carrier Command experience.

Okay, but why do they want to put stupid droids into the game when they wasn't in the original, if it isn't broken why are they trying to fix it.

I have yet to see a remake done well, they always have to ruin it by adding extra silly bits that are not wanted nor needed.

[GepardenK 0]

Okay, but why do they want to put stupid droids into the game when they wasn't in the original, if it isn't broken why are they trying to fix it.

I have yet to see a remake done well, they always have to ruin it by adding extra silly bits that are not wanted nor needed.

The droids are deployed in squads from the walrus and have a limited lifespan before their batteries die out. It is the droids who have to enter the enemy islands command center to deploy the control virus.

IMO this makes the game more tactical in a way the original never was. That is a good thing.

You have to understand that a "remake" is never an attempt to make the same game as the original (That would be stupid because the original already is the same game as the original). A remake is supposed to make a NEW game based on the core ideas of the original.

I agree with you that a lot of remakes these days go in the wrong direction (fallout 3, Bards tale etc). But please, put some faith is Bohemia Interactive. They have been known to produce very good open ended games (just like the original CarrierCommand was), and they are NOT a sellout company that works for EA and the like. What I’m saying is that this might actually turn out to be a very good remake:)

Only thing you have to watch out for is a fare share of bugs in the beginning. But they will be patched out after a while.

Edited February 12, 2010 by GepardenK

[dmarkwick 261]

But they seem to be holding to the idea of having troops, just this fact alone would destroy the entire concept of the original Carrier command, it simply would not be Carrier command more a game loosely based on Carrier command.

Okay, but why do they want to put stupid droids into the game when they wasn't in the original, if it isn't broken why are they trying to fix it.

C'mon guy, man up. Texture mapping was also not in the original. Weather was also not in the original. Worrying about stuff you've heard about that wasn't in the original is kind of a waste of effort here. If all you want is stuff that was in the original, well, you know. Play the original. I believe you can get it running on modern PCs still.

Personally, I wouldn't play the game if it was exactly like the original. It was fine in its day, and remains one of my fond memories, but really, PCs can make much more of this game now. Evolve.

[Dajunka 10]

Nothing is certain, and as you say these droids may enhance the game rather than ruin it.

I am just stating my fears that have been realized in many previous remakes of games.

I think we are all looking forward to playing it as well as wanting it to be as brilliant as the original, we will just have to wait and see.

[EDcase 87]

I loved the

but I think there is lots of potential for BIS to improve the gameplay without damaging the concept.

I sure don't want exactly the same game again. That would be pointless. If you want to play the original just get an emulator...

[celery 8]

But they seem to be holding to the idea of having troops, just this fact alone would destroy the entire concept of the original Carrier command, it simply would not be Carrier command more a game loosely based on Carrier command.

Okay, but why do they want to put stupid droids into the game when they wasn't in the original, if it isn't broken why are they trying to fix it.

I have yet to see a remake done well, they always have to ruin it by adding extra silly bits that are not wanted nor needed.

To put it bluntly, some of the things you hold as the defining features of Carrier Command are simply limitations of the original game and the hardware it uses. By today's standards only the general idea of the game is something worth recycling.

[gadgetmind 10]

I totally agree. The only approach is to use the name of the game and key "characters", take the key concepts and feel, and then create the best game you can, which involves getting creative and introducing new ideas.

There were a lot of compromises in the original, some imposed by the *massive* memory and speed limitations of the machines of the day, but also by the fact that we were two guys doing *everything* by hand in assembler.

We wanted troops! It was in the original "brainstorming" session, but we quite simply couldn't do it, no way.

All the signs are that Gaea Mission will be the game that we would have created without all of these limitations, and I can't wait to play it.

Ian

[bfcrusader 10]

Gadgetmind, are you one of the two original programmers of the old, classic Carrier Command?

If you are, I have to say you made an awesome game, especially considering the fact there were such great limitations back then. Like many of us here, I have fond memories of playing this game at a young age and appreciating its complexity and, back then, immerse gameplay. Ingenious! Thanks for creating it.

I'm curious to know what you do nowadays, if you don't mind me asking?

[gadgetmind 10]

Yes, Ian Oliver, and Graeme Baird was the other guy. Though Andy Onions was also part of the company, he was on other projects, but then did the Z80 conversions of CC, which was quite an achievement!

Glad you liked Carrier. I actually feel that we didn't really get it right until the PC and Mac versions. We were just so late finishing the ST and Amiga ones that we had to release or starve to death! It was our first project on 16-bit machines and we bit off far too much.

Personally I tailed off writing games during the 90s (last one was a conversion of Abrams Battle Tank to the Sega Genesis) as we started another company producing development tools for games programmers. In 1994 that company was acquired by Sega, and I then spent many years working on Dreamcast tools. I actually had a one-to-one lunch meeting with Hideki Sato on the day that the death of the Dreamcast was announced. <sniff>

In 2001, my tools team was acquired by Imagination Technologies, so now I'm involved with all of our cool semiconductor tech that goes into smartphones, TVs, and the like. Happy days, but it's a shame I never got a chance to port Carrier to the Dreamcast. :-)

I don't know much more about Gaea Mission than has been publicly shown here, and even if I did couldn't discuss it, but work-in-progress certainly pushes my buttons visually, and Bohemia always do a good job with game play.

Ian

---------- Post added at 10:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 AM ----------

Ah, sorry, I should have said. Graeme Baird is still in game development - http://www.sixbynine.co.uk/ (if the link doesn't work, search for sixbynine)

Andy Onions, well he was in the news a while ago, but it was all very odd!

Ian

[bfcrusader 10]

Cool, you worked on the Dreamcast. Sad day indeed when it was discontinued. Say, do you still own a copy of CC and even play it every once in a while? :P

I know if I made a game, especially if it took great work to complete it, I would make sure that I always had one myself.

I know of the PC version (playable through DOSbox) and I like the "Timewarp" feature, however the game is missing many sounds and this makes the game less attractive. For example when firing lasers I hear something which is more of a distorted sound than anything laser-ish. And the Walruses and Mantas don't give any engine sound, period.

I'd seriously like to find out where I can get a copy I can play with full sound AND the timewarp. Oh and if anyone knows how to record in-game videos so I can make youtube videos of the game that would be great.

[dragonbeast 10]

As everyone else here on the forms i'm a big fan of the old carrier command and spend many days kamikaze flying my malta's in enemies control centres :).

Its a honour to have you on the forms gadgetmind and thanks for this great game.

[W0lle 1049]

Ian, nice to have you here with us. I also still remember the original (played it on both Amiga and PC) and although this "future stuff" is not really my thing anymore I'm really looking forward to play "your" game again. :)

[gadgetmind 10]

Over the years, I have occasionally fired up Carrier Command, and I'm still proud of what we achieved given the obstacles that faced us, but even in its day there were flaws.

The lack of time warp on the ST/Amiga is something I deeply regret: we had most of the code ready to go, and pushed hard to include it, but Rainbird said 'no' as they couldn't wait even one more day and the manuals had already been printed without that button.

The dire sound on the PC version was just the nature of the beast. Sound cards were still a few years off (other than high-end Roland effects cards) so we just had the PC speaker, you know, the one that goes beep at boot time. What sound there is came at great cost, both in programming effort and CPU time - when something is exploding 10-20% of the cycles go into that crappy crackling!

I'm sure someone could easily retrofit some modern sound to the game. It would be a few weeks work with an x86 disassembler, but people do far more crazy things! Would I do it? No, sorry, it would be too easy to while away my hours looking backwards. I think it's natural that we occasionally do that for inspiration, but that's all it should be and we can't let it turn into a straight-jacket.

As for the Dreamcast, well that's another topic where I could get weepy over a whisky: it was far ahead of its time, and deserved to succeed, but that's not how business works. Sony and Microsoft had far deeper pockets and had a cut-throat attitude that meant they could and did exploit any small mistake that we made, and we made a few.

But they were great days, particularly all the deep under-cover design work that we did long long before it got that inexcusable name and hit the shelves. I was heavily involved with the SH4 CPU, particularly anything to do with debug and performance analysis, and I'm proud to say that games developers actually praised the quality of the development environment. That had never happened before as they/we tend to be part programmer and part prima donna, so are hard to please and even harder to impress.

Ashes are nothing without a Phoenix, and that's where Imagination Technologies comes into it. IMG designed the 3D technology for the Dreamcast, which interacted *very* closed with the SH4 (they were designed alongside each other), so Sega, Hitachi, NEC and IMG all worked alongside each other. When Sega hit hard times, IMG snapped up me and my team, and it's all worked out *really* well.

So, when you play with your fancy new smart 'phone, there's a strong chance that its graphics technology is built on the legacy of the Dreamcast. Similarly, the new Carrier Command game will be built on the legacy of the one that we created in the late 80's, but the best way for it to be true to the original is for it to inspire but not constrain those programmers (and prima donnas!) who are working on it, and for them to take the idea and run with it in exciting and (yes!) new directions.

Ian

[scrapser 11]

I loved playing Carrier Command and can still play it on my Amiga Forever emulator. I look forward to Bohemia's offering.

There were other games back in the day that I enjoyed. One was like a 3D virtual board game but still a lot of fun. It was called, "The Sentinel" and required you to teleport around the map absorbing objects for their energy to gain enough height to defeat the Sentinel while at the same time avoiding its gaze. Also, the game "Virus" (third-person shooter involving a little hovering ship that flew around the map trying to stop the virus from spreading) which was remade for the PC but as far as I know it never made it to the US. Both of these games would be a lot of fun today.

[gadgetmind 10]

Interesting you mention those two as both were Firebird/Rainbird.

I got sneak previews of both and might have upset Geoff with some of my comments on The Sentinel. It was obviously me who was in the wrong as it got good reviews and had a lot of fans.

As for Virus, I really liked the graphics (I saw it first on an Archimedes when it was called Zarch) and the landscapes, but it didn't seem to have the depth of (say) Elite.

I speculated that perhaps Braben and Crammond had swapped brains during development of the two games.

BTW, we did the first PC port of Elite and got to talk through the Acorn source code with Bell and Braben - interesting, in oh so many ways.

Ian

[FoxTwo 10]

Ian,

I've visited this forum several times but never bothered registering. That is until I saw your post. It's certainly great to hear from one of the two original developers of Carrier Command. I can't tell you how many hours I enjoyed the game on the Amiga.

In my opinion, Carrier Command was one of the most advanced games of it's time. The cutting-edge graphics are often lauded as the element setting this game apart from the rest. However, I've always felt it was the combination of Real Time Strategy and Vehicle Simulation that made the game so great. There has been many attempts to do the same, but few games seem to have found the right balance between the two genres that you managed to carefully stitch together.

Thank you for pushing the limits on technology, imagination, and inspiration. You created a truly AMAZING application that will always stand as one of the all-time greats! My hat is off to you.

Very Respectfully,

Ryan

[gadgetmind 10]

Wow, Ryan, you're really making me blush! That praise was so lavish that I was forced to show it to my wife and daughter, but I don't think they believed a word of it. :-)

Regards later attempts to repeat the success of Carrier failing, well we failed ourselves with Battle Command. I'm not sure what went wrong. Maybe it was that we'd employed more people and had them working on it rather than doing it all ourselves, maybe our vision for the final product wasn't clear and correct, or maybe its something else entirely. Dunno.

Ian

[quiet_man 8]

Regards later attempts to repeat the success of Carrier failing, well we failed ourselves with Battle Command. I'm not sure what went wrong. Maybe it was that we'd employed more people and had them working on it rather than doing it all ourselves, maybe our vision for the final product wasn't clear and correct, or maybe its something else entirely. Dunno.

Hello Ian,

I'm also belonging to the carrier command (senior) fan club :p

I know the problem going from "doing it yourself" to the "tell other people". I think it is not limited but major in the IT business where work products are quite "flexible". That's why some manager revert back to "financials" and let external consultants do the other stuff.

Sorry if I sound sad, but I have my own experience there :rolleyes:

CC is still my all time favorite bedside X-Com (and Armed Assault of course :p ). CC gave the "you are in the middle of something going on" feeling while having lots of options what to do and how influence things.

Which you the best for your current work and thank you again for such a great game.

QuietMan

[Alex72 1]

Nice to see you here Ian. :)

Same here, senior CC fan, and even though you speak of shortcomings in the original title due to limited tech it was nothing you as a fan noticed. At least i didnt. I swallowed that game hook line sinker and enjoyed every second of it. Superb game that will be very nice to experience again thanks to Bohemia.

Like W0lle im not a sci-fi nut per se, but like music to me these days a good tune is a good tune no matter what genre, and so far BIS hasnt let me down so there will definately be a Gaea CC title in my shelf soon enough.

Thanks Ian for bringing tons of fun to my teenage years. ;)

Regards

Alex