Idea for Ghillie suit viewing at a distance. Snipers can be spotted TOO easyly.

[koroush47 10]

I don't mind snipers in small doses (or numbers), but seriously? This game is not really intended for "sniper" play.

If you're going out alone with 1 or 2 other sniper NPCs, you're WASTING the potential of having 13 guys in your squad (depending on MP server, of course!)

So really? I'd rather have no one on my team being a sniper because snipers are rarely, RARELY ever team players and they rarely help with objectives because they're often doing their own thing.

This has been proven time and time again in other FPSs and Milsims - snipers are typically young teenage boys who enjoy the rambo feeling and rarely contribute.

No thanks.

As for your idea for camouflage, I think it's a good idea, but not exactly how you're suggestion. How fair is that to me if I'm being shot at by an invisible foe and even if I get lucky and look directly at his direction with my scope, BECAUSE OF GAME MECHANICS, I can't see him? Nah. Changes need to be made, but not the way youre saying.

You might believe that... but if you are looking for rambo killing... then getting an automatic rifle will most likely get you more kills.

I for one actually team work. I mark the enemy tanks for the attack helis and guide them to their target. I use ventrillo to tell the team which direction APCs or squads are moving in from.. I occasionally team up w/ one of the regulars at berzerk and give them cover fire while they move up to capture points. And anything else that comes my way. If I wanted random sniper rambo action... I would just play BF2.

Then it is ruined by some guy who just glances in my direction.. and shoots me. I wouldn't even have to fire a bullet or move, because that is how obvious the snipers are in this game.

[galzohar 31]

Scopes will get you more kills than automatic rifles, simply because of how the terrain (flat, no cover), display (hard to see at distance) and shooting mechanics (too easy to be stable, weapon weight and size don't matter) work, which is very different from how they work IRL. Not to mention with crosshairs on, sniper rifles are deadly CQB weapons as well, and with crosshairs off they're not too bad CQB weapons either. Again all because of the flawed mechanics I just mentioned.

[whisper 0]

Then it is ruined by some guy who just glances in my direction.. and shoots me. I wouldn't even have to fire a bullet or move, because that is how obvious the snipers are in this game.

Again, if you insist on thinking your hidden when simply lying on a grassy empty field, then you ask for it. It's seriously ALL BUT difficult to hide in this game. In fact, I'd say it's easy enough.

If something must be made, then it's definitely not something handing out invisibility to players.

[dmarkwick 261]

that is a horrible solution. Just using bushes? What if there are none?

There's always something. It's not exactly difficult to move to an area that has more concealment. I think the point being made is that you work within the game's limitations, it's never going to be perfect, and RL and ingame have different hiding requirements and abilities. Not too different, but you got to adapt, I'd say the difference is comparable in it's difficulty. Chernarus is a world that practically allows you to roam about totally unseen if you know where it is you don't want to be seen from.

The point is that you KNOW grass isn't going to hide you, and that's knowledge that represents an advantage if you know how to counter it.

[speeder 0]

Wasn't there a addon which allowed snipers to place a bush at their location? That was a nifty little feature wich made it far more easy to hide :)

That said, I have no problem being a sniper in ArmA2 as it is now, and I rarely get cought.

[Jex =TE= 0]

Am I missing something - why doesn't the army just hand out Ghillie suits to all soldiers?

Surely a ghillie suit should have to be deployed and take time in doing so. They also (In RL) have to be made to match tthe terrain (so the guy covered in oak leaves doesn't stand out in a pine forest). Is it realistic for people to just run all over the place wearing one? Is this where the man from the swamp superstition started?

---------- Post added at 08:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 PM ----------

Wasn't there a addon which allowed snipers to place a bush at their location? That was a nifty little feature wich made it far more easy to hide :)

That said, I have no problem being a sniper in ArmA2 as it is now, and I rarely get cought.

I think you'll find it 1:00 in...

Hmmm try this then, don't seem to be working

[Thirdup 0]

Wasn't there a addon which allowed snipers to place a bush at their location? That was a nifty little feature wich made it far more easy to hide

I was looking for that yesterday when I saw this thread. I remember it, but darned if I can find a clip of it. I never used the addon, but I swear I remember seeing the video.

---------- Post added at 03:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------

Heh, Jex here's the ArmA2 version of that clip:

7yvUrCJ2pQI

[Curse-splatt 10]

that is a horrible solution. Just using bushes? What if there are none?

"Oh look! My guy can't run! Might as well just use cars!"

Yes. But if you are looking at a sniper w/ your binocs or scope... and you can see the grass also.. Then you should be able to see him normally as you would if you were 5 feet away.

The reality is that if you don't have decent concealment pick a new spot.

On your earlier example of having the ZI whip out binocs and see you, well if you're either close enough to see them doing that or you have yuor binocs out then you're either too close, or they can see you whip your binocs out too.

Snipers are extremely careful about how they move, what they carry, and how they set up their shooting spot. They don't just run into a field and reply on their Ghillie suit to do everything for them. It's one small part of the much larger technique of camo.

[Jex =TE= 0]

I was looking for that yesterday when I saw this thread. I remember it, but darned if I can find a clip of it. I never used the addon, but I swear I remember seeing the video.

---------- Post added at 03:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------

Heh, Jex here's the ArmA2 version of that clip:

7yvUrCJ2pQI

LOL thx Thirdup :)

[Bulldogs 10]

Heh.. gotta love Monty Python's.

Anyways, not sure if it's been mentioned (and too lazy to read the whole thread) but one thing I loved in Joint Operations : Typhoon Rising was that if someone lay on the ground then you looked at them from a large distance (outside of vegitation rendering range) they'd change colours to the texture they were lying on to become camophlaged. It was a very handy feature and made it extremely difficult to deal with base campers, but everyone would just watch for the flashpoint and light up the position with grenades.

Not sure if anyone would be able to create a mod to induct the same behaviour.

[Sniperdoc 0]

The game is suppose to be realistic, it's called a simulator. When you can see a sniper in a ghillie suit from miles away in tall grass... that is not realistic.

The snipers are suppose to be "invisible" anyways.

I don't know how much you know about snipers, but what you just stated is quite wrong. Snipers CAN very well be seen in a ghillie suit. A ghillie suit is not meant to make you blend into the terrain. It helps, don't get me wrong, but all a Ghillie suit is supposed to do is break up your human form and outline.

Case and point:

During my time with 3rd Battalion 5th Marines STA Platoon, almost 3 times a week, we went out to different ranges to practice stalking. Stalking is the technique used to get a sniper team from the Objective Rally Point (ORP) to the Forward Firing Position(FFP), or the point from where you'll be shooting from.

Different techniques used during the stalk would enhance the snipers ability to avoid being observed.

1. Cover - natural or artificial protection from enemy fire
   
2. Concealment - natural or artificial protection from enemy observation
   
   1. 
      
   2. Avoid Unnecessary movement
      
   3. Use all available concealment
      
   4. Stay low
      
   5. Avoid reflective materials
      
   6. Avoid Skylining
      
   7. Use blending techniques
      
   8. Use noise discipline
      

Now, we've had snipers that have done the stalks without a ghillie suit and have been equally effective in getting within 100ft of their target and taking the shot without being seen.

The ghillie suit should just be an adjunct to observation avoidance. It is not this magic panacea that just makes you invisible to the terrain.

The reason people get observed is that if a sniper thinks a firing position is an ideal spot, the enemy probably has the same thought. That is why a sniper avoids using the following locations:

1. On a point or crest of prominent terrain features
   
2. At bends or ends of roads, trails, and streams
   
3. Close to isolated objects (we used to call those pig magnets)
   
4. Populated areas
   

Places that can serve as good firing positions are the following:

1. Under logs that have good blending properties (with dark backdrops) - it doesn't help if it is a single log out in the middle of nowhere. That's considered a pig magnet.
   
2. Deep shadows
   
3. Rubble piles
   

All those properties have to be observed. Otherwise, a ghillie really won't help.

BIS should have created some features in the game that assist the sniper a bit more. Things such as bushes that work in such a way to allow Snipers to burn a hole through the vegetation to see their targets. Burning a hole is the ability to look through several bushes, and using your eyes to focus where you know the target to be, and basically focusing through the leaves of the bush. You can usually make out your target through several bushes. But game mechanics really don't allow for that. You have to hide UNDER a bush and then usually move forward a bit because the leaf sprites cover up your view. This usually changes the outline of the bush and makes it the odd one out and draws attention to you.

The best way to find good FFPs in a game, is to get into the observers position, squint your eyes and scan the area. This creates a greater contrast as everything is being blurred to the point where all you see are the outlines of objects and not the details. This way it points out where you probably have a better chance of not being observed.

It would also help more, that when people use optics, that the grass sprites show up in the view. Snipers that thought tall grass hid them as they're moving along can be observed easily because of this mechanical failure of the game.

One thing that may make it better than having a "canvas" that covers the sniper up, would be to make the sniper translucent in a low crawl position. A game that utilized that feature was Black Hawk Down. I thought it was a great feature as it really helped a sniper blend in when game mechanics wouldn't otherwise allow for a proper blend. Once a shot was taken, the translucent feature went away for a period of time until the sniper moved into a new position to fire.