Any progress at graphic artefacts with ATI cards?

[ginger mcale 11]

Hey,

iam not sure if the wrong named and collective sticky thread is checked by the responsible people. So i though it would good to open a exclusive thread for it. There is a serious problem with ATI cards and Arma 2. Full screen artefacts (triangles, squares).

Examples:

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Facts and other interesting stuff about it:

- its not a heat or overclock problem

- all ATI graphic card series are affected (xxx, 1xxx, 2xxx, 3xxx, 4xxx)

- cards with 1 GB or more video ram seem not to get it or less frequent

- tested with ATI drivers 9.5, 9.6, 9.7, 9.8

- bug seems not happen with Windows 7

- it seems the bug does occur when the VRAM of the graphic cards gets FULL (http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8859/arma2graphatt.png)

- bug does occur in Arma 1 too bet less often

- only affecting the 3D image; the 2D overlay images (team member avatars, comunication menu) seem not to be affected

- bug occured since first Arma 2 version

- when you have the bug, you can trigger it by looking in different directions (if you look up into the sky everything is fine, if you look down it comes back)

- when graphic settings are set to high the bug comes faster, when graphic settings are low, it does sometime do not come

- bug does not show up on Utes or less frequent, so reprodoce only with big map

- bug does occur also when game is in window mode

Steps for reproduction:

- max all graphic settings, everything on highest value

- open Tschernarus in editor

- place you inside a chopper at biggest city in south at the coast

- fly around, low at the city, after max 60 seconds you get the error

This seems to be the fastest way to get the problem.

When having the graphic settings on medium, it takes longer to get the erorr. When graphic settings are on low, the problem seems not to come or less frequent. So set your settings very high if you want to reproduce it.

Is there any progress on this issue? Its annoying, because people need to play the game with lowest textures settings to play without the artefacts. No official word yet on this issue. And this issue is known now since 3 months. Any communication is appreciated.

Bug ticket at Arma 2 community issue tracker:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/2500

Regards

Mariusz aka ginger

Edited August 21, 2009 by Ginger McAle

[Flat4ej20 10]

Damn that sucks. I myself never experienced this problem & I have been playing single player campaign for 3 weeks. Maybe you should post over at ATI site. All these ATI problems and there is only 3 posts at ATI site.

[ginger mcale 11]

Yep it sucks. I dont know if it would be good to post it at the ATI forums. Since this problem is only at Arma 2 (so a game bug, not a graphic card bug) it would be maybe not fair to ask ATI to fix it. Hmmm. But i will keep it in mind, if Bohemia does not react, ATI will be the only hope. Thanks man!

Edited August 21, 2009 by Ginger McAle

[private plowjoy 0]

For what it's worth, i've experienced exactly the same with Nvidia, specifically the 295.

I encountered it when the SLI profile wasn't set properly, so my card was actually only running at half spec, thus half VRAM. From what I recall, it started to occur after a while of gameplay which is why I put it down to VRAM being topped up and then being unable to release old/unused textures.

When I had it, the game would normally crash with an application error about 4-5 minutes later and the only way to 'fix' the crazy geometry problems was to look straight up or down but thats obviously not conducive to playing the game. Checking Task Manager, I could see that it tended to blow when the clients physical ram allocation (on a 2GB machine) topped 1GB.

Since getting the SLI profile working properly and upping my system RAM to 12GB, i've never seen it again.

It's interesting how you say that flying over a city generates the error, as that's surely the quickest way to fill up VRAM and system RAM with textures, and that matches the circumstances by which my old error cropped up. When being respawned at the base in Multiplayer. I suspected that the client was reloading the same textures or at least not performing sufficient garbage collection to flush them all out properly.

You could try to repro this by doing the heli flyover and in the middle of it, flushing the game. If you then continue halfway thru the city the other side without seeing the problems, that might indicate that it's a texture caching problem.

Dunno, just throwing ideas and thoughts out. Head is fubar with insecticide fumes ATM.

[wooly-back-jack 10]

sorry, just thought I would throw this in here as I have noticed my games a bit smoother now since I Increased my pagefile on my HDD's. Probably a minimal affect for most I know but it has helped me some with low RAM.

I suffered alot before with popping/slow loading textures

[private plowjoy 0]

sorry, just thought I would throw this in here as I have noticed my games a bit smoother now since I Increased my pagefile on my HDD's. Probably a minimal affect for most I know but it has helped me some with low RAM.

I suffered alot before with popping/slow loading textures

Always keep in mind, new pagefiles always seem to result in a speedier system...to start with.

Like all files, they become fragmented and get bogged down over time. Some people even suggest regularly recreating the pagefile as part of system maintenance.

[Leopardi 0]

That's an nvidia problem not ati.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Get Win 7.

[kklownboy 43]

dont fly, till it is "fixed" try a few mods from Kju, and others.

[thr0tt 12]

As there has been no official response from BIS, I mean, even if they admit there is an issue and they can't fix it nor intend to would help people move on, then we should only assume that this is not even being looked at as a fault with the game, dissapointing.

[ginger mcale 11]

sorry, just thought I would throw this in here as I have noticed my games a bit smoother now since I Increased my pagefile on my HDD's. Probably a minimal affect for most I know but it has helped me some with low RAM.

I suffered alot before with popping/slow loading textures

This thread is not about the popping/slow loading textures/graphical laggs because of harddrive usage. Its about a specific problem with ATI cards at Arma 2.

That's an nvidia problem not ati.

This thread is about the problem with ATI cards.

Get Win 7.

And thats your ultimate solution yes?

dont fly, till it is "fixed" try a few mods from Kju, and others.

Its not happening only when flying, if you would read correctly, i said its the quickest way to reproduce this problem.

BIS you had a chance to read this? It would be good to get some feedback please.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

If there is a permament and reasonable solution, why ignore it?

[ginger mcale 11]

No its of course not to ignore. But Windows 7 is not released yet. I have pre-ordered it, it will hopefully be shipped someday in October. But thats not the point.

Its a bug that need to be fixed. You cant hope for that your customers upgrade their operating system and you as developer are off the hook because you had the luck that some upcomming operating systems does not show this certain bug, you cant build on coincidence.

This game is also made for XP and Vista.

I for myself, cant upgrade yet to Windows 7 leaked stuff or release candidate for different reasons that you dont need to know. I will not be the only one.

[InFireBaptize 0]

Steps for reproduction:

- max all graphic settings, everything on highest value

- open Tschernarus in editor

- place you inside a chopper at biggest city in south at the coast

- fly around, low at the city, after max 60 seconds you get the error

This seems to be the fastest way to get the problem.

When having the graphic settings on medium, it takes longer to get the erorr. When graphic settings are on low, the problem seems not to come or less frequent. So set your settings very high if you want to reproduce it.

ok, when you set everything to max, your video card works harder thus you have to monitor two things:

1 - Temperature

2- If the card is getting enough juice from your PSU.

1- Max all your settings and post temperature here.

2- Post wattage of your PSU.

Make sure that your card is not sharing the +12v cable with other hardware, i don't know it's called single rail or something.

Good luck.

- cards with 1 GB or more video ram seem not to get it or less frequent

Never hard this issue with my old card, see sig below.

Edited August 24, 2009 by InFireBaptize

[ginger mcale 11]

Thanks for your advice, but we have been through all this within 3 months of analysis at the sticky thread: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=73235

[InFireBaptize 0]

Thanks for your advice, but we have been through all this within 3 months of analysis at the sticky thread: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=73235

open your case and replace the card psu cable with a different cable. Make sure the card is on the PCIx slot and well seated. Just curious how much wattage your PSU has?

[thr0tt 12]

If there is a permament and reasonable solution, why ignore it?

Please direct me to the NForce3 GART drivers for Win7 and I will gladly try it.

open your case and replace the card psu cable with a different cable. Make sure the card is on the PCIx slot and well seated. Just curious how much wattage your PSU has?

My AGP card doesn't fit in any PCIx slot.

Looks like the thread will turn into the usual 'overheating', 'power', 'XP is so old hat', 'Your PC is misconfigured', 'your machine is faulty', 'GPU is faulty', 'memory faulty', 'machine not facing Mecca', 'encase pc in lead to stop solar flares' type crap, (game has a fault maybe ?).

Before offering wonderous solutions to an issue that exists then please let us know that you had the issue prior to doing the above otherwise your 'solution' is just the usual common practice that we have already tried ! So stop adding the same old unfounded rubbish over and over again, please. :)

[ginger mcale 11]

Please Baptize, respect the facts, its not a hardware, not energy, not temperature, not some other software problem here. Its a Arma 2 problem. We have been through all this within 3 months of analysis at the sticky thread: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=73235

Edited August 24, 2009 by Ginger McAle

[InFireBaptize 0]

It is 100% user issue, good luck.

[ginger mcale 11]

Which facts let you come to that conclusion? You have tested everything you could think off or did we (the people with this problem) tested, analyzed and debatted about it within 3 months? Please explain, i would like to understand you better. Why do you believe the things you say are true and the other people are all wrong.

Edited August 24, 2009 by Ginger McAle

[InFireBaptize 0]

I had this same problem with ArmA, solved by installing better PSU. ATI recommends 75 Watt 6-pin PCI Express® power connector and a minimum of 32 AMP's on the 12 volts rails. My new PSU has +12VDC @ 60A (Powerful Single Rail). Good luck.

don't get excited about getting PSU with more wattage, the trick is with how much amperes per single rail, make sure before you buy a new one to check company website for specification. Good luck.

---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 PM ----------

Please direct me to the NForce3 GART drivers for Win7 and I will gladly try it.

My AGP card doesn't fit in any PCIx slot.

Looks like the thread will turn into the usual 'overheating', 'power', 'XP is so old hat', 'Your PC is misconfigured', 'your machine is faulty', 'GPU is faulty', 'memory faulty', 'machine not facing Mecca', 'encase pc in lead to stop solar flares' type crap, (game has a fault maybe ?).

Before offering wonderous solutions to an issue that exists then please let us know that you had the issue prior to doing the above otherwise your 'solution' is just the usual common practice that we have already tried ! So stop adding the same old unfounded rubbish over and over again, please. :)

i wasn't offering help to you, don't get too excited there.

[ginger mcale 11]

Interesting. Was that on Windows XP or Windows 7? Had you been on the same operating system before and after changing the PSU? Was it the ATI 4890 card with 1 GB ram or the ATI 4830 with "no idea how much RAM"? Did you had artifacts in other games too before changing the PSU or did you dont play other games at that time? I have a 450 Watt bequiet straight power PSU (quality product) with two 6-pin PCI Express power connectors. Only the first one of them is used. Computer is watercooled. Arma 2 is the only game i have this problems (i do play many different games).

http://www.be-quiet.net/be-quiet.net/index.php?StoryID=221&websiteLang=en

The computer takes 120 watt energy (measured) when idle (right now) and something around 230-260 during gaming.

[connos 10]

The problem i had with my Ati card was slow loading textures and a bit of stuttering(ATI 4870 512Ram). I recently install Windows 7 64bit by formating my previous Vista 64bit and the difference is huge. I don't know what actually fix my problem, that i format and its a clean pc now?, Windows 7?, the Ati new hotfix drivers? but for sure the experience now is fantastic.

I use to get slow loading texture all the time from the start of the game but not anymore. And also stuttering is totally gone.

[ginger mcale 11]

This is the wrong thread connos (artifacts issue here), post your question here please:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=73235

[connos 10]

It was just for your info. I hope you'll find solution for your problem.