Windows 7 cut frames by 50% and introduced microstuttering

[bangtail 0]

Damn it this is so frustrating. It's like ArmA 1 all over again... though what else should I have expected?

The 182.50 drivers give me the exact same framerates as the 190.38's did, so I don't know what to do here.

It's even more frustrating knowing this is where my computer should be! :mad: I was getting 6000+ on Vista.

I'd be willing to bet if two systems were built exactly the same, with all the same components, ArmA would still perform differently on them. :icon_rolleyes:

Well, I'm not going back to Vista just for ArmA, and I'm not going to partition and dual-boot for it either, so I guess I'll just keep on tinkering. I'm out of ideas here.

Thanks for all the help guys. I got a lot more useful replies than I was expecting.

Just one further note. I installed 190.38 AGAIN, just to check them out and for me at least, these give 20 FPS UNLESS I use the -winxp flag.

I don't need that flag with 182.50 but it seems to make a difference with these. I still don't like 190.38 but just a note for those who are using them.

Trial and error :p

Eth

[b00ce 160]

I ran a defrag, but the problem persists. I'm rather flustered now.

[OUT FOX EM 10]

Just one further note. I installed 190.38 AGAIN, just to check them out and for me at least, these give 20 FPS UNLESS I use the -winxp flag.

I don't need that flag with 182.50 but it seems to make a difference with these. I still don't like 190.38 but just a note for those who are using them.

Trial and error :p

Eth

So here we are, nearing the end of 2009, and we still gotta trick the goddamn thing into thinking it's 2001.

I actually had momentary success with the 186.18 drivers along with renaming ArmA2.exe to Crysis64.exe, believe it or not. That got me up to Vista framerates for one play session, but now I'm back down to where I was after I kept on tinkering. :banghead:

I'm off to reinstall my drivers... again.

[hughesy627 0]

i have been getting some microstuttering but only since applying patch 1.03, so i doubt it is windows 7. It does get a bit annoying when flying low and fast:D

[OUT FOX EM 10]

Back once again, and I did what I did before -- installed 186.18 and renamed to Crysis64.exe. I decided this time not to install the EVGA SLI enhancement, as I can live with the file being named after Crysis... and that's what fixed it for me.

Thanks for everybody's help. Hopefully my experience and everybody's advice in this thread will help someone else down the line.

I'm off to play Crysis... oops I mean ArmA.

[bangtail 0]

Back once again, and I did what I did before -- installed 186.18 and renamed to Crysis64.exe. I decided this time not to install the EVGA SLI enhancement, as I can live with the file being named after Crysis... and that's what fixed it for me.

Thanks for everybody's help. Hopefully my experience and everybody's advice in this thread will help someone else down the line.

I'm off to play Crysis... oops I mean ArmA.

It took me a while (and a lot of messing about) to get it "where I wanted it", as it were. It seems to be different for everyone and it makes giving advice difficult as what works for one does not necessarily work for another (in some cases it actually makes it worse).

I'm glad you got it sorted at any rate.

Have fun :)

Eth

[FraG_AU 10]

Back once again, and I did what I did before -- installed 186.18 and renamed to Crysis64.exe. I decided this time not to install the EVGA SLI enhancement, as I can live with the file being named after Crysis... and that's what fixed it for me.

Thanks for everybody's help. Hopefully my experience and everybody's advice in this thread will help someone else down the line.

I'm off to play Crysis... oops I mean ArmA.

I'd like to say that installing the SLi patch over 190.38+ drivers is a backward step. And I would recommend AT least 190.38 for SLi and win7 as there is no need for any -winxp flags or renaming of exes..

I have had the best success with Win7 & Arma2, only issue I had to contend with was the stutter that is introduced when HT is on with i7 (So i turn it off in the bios),.. anyway I found that crysis.exe trick gave lower fps then arma2 when using 190.38s.

[bangtail 0]

I'd like to say that installing the SLi patch over 190.38+ drivers is a backward step. And I would recommend AT least 190.38 for SLi and win7 as there is no need for any -winxp flags or renaming of exes..

I have had the best success with Win7 & Arma2, only issue I had to contend with was the stutter that is introduced when HT is on with i7 (So i turn it off in the bios),.. anyway I found that crysis.exe trick gave lower fps then arma2 when using 190.38s.

I disagree.

190.38 have numerous problems outside of A2 on top of the fact that I NEED the -winxp switch with those drivers or I get 20 FPS.

I don't need -winxp for 182.50 and I don't need to rename the exe.

As I said, it's different for everyone but the 190 drivers are horrendous and that's not really debatable. I don't think I've ever seen so much complaining about a driver set.

Having said that, if you are happy with them, rock on!

Eth

[sickboy 13]

Not sure if this is Vista/7 only, and non existent on XP, but my (and 2 other friends) experiences with Core i7 and Nvidia GTX series is that performance and even stability is a problem.

Tried a lot of drivers and settings, in the end, replacing a GTX 280 with a 4850x2, 4870x2 or 4890, has resolved all issues in every case.

FPS boost from ~17-25 to ~60.

There's a tomshardware article back from April stating ~50% performance loss of GTX series when combined with Core i7. Such problems were non existent with any Radeon.

[bangtail 0]

Not sure if this is Vista/7 only, and non existent on XP, but my (and 2 other friends) experiences with Core i7 and Nvidia GTX series is that performance and even stability is a problem.

Tried a lot of drivers and settings, in the end, replacing a GTX 280 with a 4850x2, 4870x2 or 4890, has resolved all issues in every case.

There's a tomshardware article back from April stating ~50% performance loss of GTX series when combined with Core i7. Such problems were non existent with any Radeon.

As of right now, Nvidia seems to be having teething problems with Win 7 and their drivers. Ever since 185.85, every new set has bought some new annoyance.

Some people like them (although that seems to be a minority view judging by the complaining on guru3d et al) and I personally can't stand them.

Obviously, Win 7 isn't released so there is time to get most of the problems fixed before October 22nd. It's no different from any other major OS launch, there are always problems.

It does seem that ATI has the better drivers at the moment but that is an infinite "see saw" and the GT300 series will belt ATI hard if the rumours about the speed are correct (and if the driver support is rectified).

At the moment, ATI will have it's DX11 line out first but there are rumours that the flagship Nvidia card will be twice as fast as a GTX 285. If that's anywhere close to true, I can't wait :)

Eth

[FraG_AU 10]

I disagree.

190.38 have numerous problems outside of A2

I have not had one issue with 190.38 onwards. Infact aside from great Arma 2 performance I have great performance across all my games with this driver.. as you say tho everyone is different so my golden egg could be your rotten egg.

this is a horrible truth in pc gaming, but XP is really the gaming operating System. You will get an increase of 20-50% FPS using xp and there isnt any reason to use windows 7 at all, for any reason what so ever, at the moment. Why are you people using windows 7?. That is the big question. Matter of fact, why did any of you even upgrade to Vista?, what a joke DX10 was. I played with Vista for ages(well a month) and DX10 was a massive waste of time(yay cool looking lighting ,awesome, and a 10-30 fps drop in performance) destroyed performance in a big way. Back to xp , performance is awesome and all games run great. And DX9 looks fantastic. You guys that upgrade your computers with every little upgrade that comes along are insane. .....

....Why upgrade ?

Wow, perhaps I should dust of windows 3.11? And the 486 dx2 66?

Windows 7 has shown to have significant improvements from Vista, best off all ITs still FREE at the moment, and much better with next gen HW then the old Win XP and its amazing but people actually like to try new things. If you're happy with your HW and OS then I am very happy for you, but save the lesson for others!

[bangtail 0]

Windows 7 has shown to have significant improvements from Vista, best off all ITs still FREE at the moment, and much better with next gen HW then the old Win XP and its amazing but people actually like to try new things. If you're happy with your HW and OS then I am very happy for you, but save the lesson for others!

Yeah, I'm not sure about that "madness" logic.

Sounds like someone who can't afford (or just plain refuses to buy) newer kit out of sheer ignorance. He called Win 7 "crap" in another thread and it's anything but.

Eth

[cchance 10]

I just got my Core i7 920, 9gb of ram, and BFG GTX275 considering on the tomshardware top charts this card and the 920 are just ranked awesome.

Anyway, Yes im running Windows 7, why? Cause its an awesome OS, Vista's face with XP's performance. And no its not that windows 7 cuts framerates by 50%, its that arma on windows 7 has this issue it seems i dont know what it is drivers etc or what as im running latest drivers currently...

I'm open to any suggestions (besides downgrading to xp) but the microstuttering is truely annoying even with post processing antialiasing and anitropic all off i still have stuttering when i try to fly around or i look at the blades of the chopper etc. Crysis and other big games run smooth at 1650x1080, i was running with 1gb of ram while i waited for my new ram to get delivered and couldnt even play at 1280x1024, but now that i'm at the full 9gb of ram the stuttering is here again...

Is it a nvidia issue? is it a windows 7 compat issue? is it a 64 bit issue? someone give me some help here, or BI give me some tips to fix the stuttering.

[bangtail 0]

I just got my Core i7 920, 9gb of ram, and BFG GTX275 considering on the tomshardware top charts this card and the 920 are just ranked awesome.

Anyway, Yes im running Windows 7, why? Cause its an awesome OS, Vista's face with XP's performance. And no its not that windows 7 cuts framerates by 50%, its that arma on windows 7 has this issue it seems i dont know what it is drivers etc or what as im running latest drivers currently...

I'm open to any suggestions (besides downgrading to xp) but the microstuttering is truely annoying even with post processing antialiasing and anitropic all off i still have stuttering when i try to fly around or i look at the blades of the chopper etc. Crysis and other big games run smooth at 1650x1080, i was running with 1gb of ram while i waited for my new ram to get delivered and couldnt even play at 1280x1024, but now that i'm at the full 9gb of ram the stuttering is here again...

Is it a nvidia issue? is it a windows 7 compat issue? is it a 64 bit issue? someone give me some help here, or BI give me some tips to fix the stuttering.

Turn off HT, set your frame pre-render to 8 and turn off vsync.

Personally I like 182.50 but you might want to try a few different drivers and see which ones work best.

Eth

Edited August 11, 2009 by BangTail

[cchance 10]

thanks will try that when i get home tonight, might also try the -winxp flag and if all that doesnt help will try a jump back to 182.50

[ICE-Raver 10]

Windows 7 has shown to have significant improvements from Vista, best off all ITs still FREE at the moment, and much better with next gen HW then the old Win XP and its amazing but people actually like to try new things.

I lucked out when I upgraded to my i7 and got vista 64. That was in July and any Vista purchased after July 1st gets a free upgrade to Windows 7.

Unfortunately, MS sent me an email saying I could expect it by November 1st at the latest, so I went ahead and set up a dual boot system with Windows 7 RC.

---------- Post added at 10:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 AM ----------

I'd like to say that installing the SLi patch over 190.38+ drivers is a backward step. And I would recommend AT least 190.38 for SLi and win7 as there is no need for any -winxp flags or renaming of exes..

I have had the best success with Win7 & Arma2, only issue I had to contend with was the stutter that is introduced when HT is on with i7 (So i turn it off in the bios),.. anyway I found that crysis.exe trick gave lower fps then arma2 when using 190.38s.

The sli patch I recommended is specifically for 190.38 drivers:http://www.evga.com/articles/00463/

In any case. I haven't had any issues with 190.38's or the sli enhancement. Like someone else said, with Arma 2 its a crapshoot. What works for one may not work for others.

[OUT FOX EM 10]

I'd like to say that installing the SLi patch over 190.38+ drivers is a backward step. And I would recommend AT least 190.38 for SLi and win7 as there is no need for any -winxp flags or renaming of exes..

I have had the best success with Win7 & Arma2, only issue I had to contend with was the stutter that is introduced when HT is on with i7 (So i turn it off in the bios),.. anyway I found that crysis.exe trick gave lower fps then arma2 when using 190.38s.

Well I don't know if you read the thread (or even just the first post) but those drivers didn't work for me. As others have said, all hardware/software combinations respond differently from one another, so what works for you won't always work for me (or anyone else).

[FraG_AU 10]

Well I don't know if you read the thread (or even just the first post) but those drivers didn't work for me. As others have said, all hardware/software combinations respond differently from one another, so what works for you won't always work for me (or anyone else).

I did mate, but also read somewhere that you were using an SLi patch on top, which is why I asked/said that from my 100x attempts straight driver worked best.

But yeah as said 1000x seems to vary so much for people with Arma 2 and performance ...

[nuggetz 0]

Windows 7 runs way better than XP for me, even for games and arma2. In XP, with SLI enabled, the game starts to get jerky even though FPS are still in the 20's. In Windows 7, the game is 10 times smoother. Not sure why this is.

[Leopardi 0]

Windows 7 runs way better than XP for me, even for games and arma2. In XP, with SLI enabled, the game starts to get jerky even though FPS are still in the 20's. In Windows 7, the game is 10 times smoother. Not sure why this is.

It uses RAM instead of the slow hard drive.

[sickboy 13]

So many Win7 / Nvidia / ATI related threads out there, putting this in here :D

Okay I was tired of micro stutter and generally low / problematic FPS.

My System:

Core i7 920 @ 2920 (3066 turbo mode), 6 GB DDR3-1600 @ 1466 7-7-7-24, Asus P6T Deluxe V2 x58

Resolution: FullScreen 2560x1600 or Window 1920x1200.

ATI 4890 (Core @ 940, Mem @ 1120, Catalyst AI: Advanced), Catalyst 9.7

Windows 7 x64 RTM 7600.16385 with updates to 16399.

Ingame settings: Everything Very High, Antialiasing Off, 3200M viewdistance

I have found a couple of things:

• When switching from Nvidia GTX 280 to ATI 4890, my lowest FPS has doubled, while the highest FPS seems to have slightly decreased. Playable on 2560x1600! ~ 30-60 FPS Mountains/Open Area, ~ 30 FPS Woods/City.
  Many of my friends have the same experience; feeling that ATI plays nicer with i7, and A2.
  
• When disabling HyperThreading, micro stuttering has virtually disappeared. It also seems that some strange lag (hitting random keyboard buttons just after starting into the mainmenu), has gone aswell.
  I was using start /affinity 55 arma2.exe before to run A2 on 4 cores only, with and without -cpuCount=4, but this seems far from equal to actually disabling HT.
  
• When using 6x WD Raptor SATA1-150, 10.000 RPM harddrives in RAID-0, Windows + PageFile + Game, loadtimes and general object/texture loading has decreased, which seems to affect large viewdistance the most.
  Previously I used a 500 GB drive for windows+pagefile, and a 300 GB velociraptor SATA-2 10.000 rpm for the game.
  Eagerly awaiting the development of SSD and their pricing ;)
  

It is still not perfect. But things have improved a lot for me. I reckon future ArmA 2 Patches, Win7 and Driver updates, will further improve this.Will give Catalyst 9.8 a go soon.

Update: After some more playing, I can safely say that Windowed 1920x1200 is very playable currently. It is when the resolution increases further, like up to 2240x1400 - 2560x1600, the FPS goes below 25 at times.

I will try a second 4890 in CFX in the next days to see how that works out for the bigger resolutions.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Sickboy

[I.like.Pwnies 10]

So many Win7 / Nvidia / ATI related threads out there, putting this in here :D

Okay I was tired of micro stutter and generally low / problematic FPS.

My System:

Core i7 920 @ 2920 (3066 turbo mode), 6 GB DDR3-1600 @ 1466 7-7-7-24

Resolution: FullScreen 2560x1600 or Window 1920x1200.

ATI 4890 (Core @ 940, Mem @ 1120, Catalyst AI: Advanced), Catalyst 9.7

Windows 7 x64 RTM 7600.16385 with updates to 16399.

Ingame settings: Everything Very High, Antialiasing Off, 3200M viewdistance

I have found a couple of things:

• When switching from Nvidia GTX 280 to ATI 4890, my lowest FPS has doubled, while the highest FPS seems to have slightly decreased. Playable on 2560x1600! ~ 30-60 FPS Mountains/Open Area, ~ 30 FPS Woods/City.
  Many of my friends have the same experience; feeling that ATI plays nicer with i7, and A2.
  
• When disabling HyperThreading, micro stuttering has virtually disappeared. It also seems that some strange lag (hitting random keyboard buttons just after starting into the mainmenu), has gone aswell.
  I was using start /affinity 55 arma2.exe before to run A2 on 4 cores only, with and without -cpuCount=4, but this seems far from equal to actually disabling HT.
  
• When using 6x WD Raptor SATA1-150, 10.000 RPM harddrives in RAID-0, Windows + PageFile + Game, loadtimes and general object/texture loading has decreased, which seems to affect large viewdistance the most.
  Previously I used a 500 GB drive for windows+pagefile, and a 300 GB velociraptor SATA-2 10.000 rpm for the game.
  Eagerly awaiting the development of SSD and their pricing ;)
  

It is still not perfect. But things have improved a lot for me. I reckon future ArmA 2 Patches, Win7 and Driver updates, will further improve this.Will give Catalyst 9.8 a go soon.

sickboy, thats a sickrig you got there.

whats do you mean by "/affinity 55 arma2.exe and where can i change that?

[sickboy 13]

sickboy, thats a sickrig you got there.

whats do you mean by "/affinity 55 arma2.exe and where can i change that?

tnx :)

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/start-an-application-assigned-to-a-specific-cpu-in-windows-vista/

55 seems to be the representation of; cpu 0, cpu 2, cpu 4, cpu 6.

But this did not remove the stuttering for me, disabling HT instead seems to have.

I say seems, because I still have to do my first full evening of MP gaming to confirm the results of my tests ;)

[Nazul 10]

I seem to have fixed my game now on Win7, it was running the best i've seen it by disabling HT and some other tweaks in this thread. Thanks to all. But really, disabling HT? Didnt anyone at BIS have an I7 or cpu with HT while developing? Thats a big thing to 'slip' by

This game is so frustrating, if it was anything else it would've been binned on day one!

[OUT FOX EM 10]

I seem to have fixed my game now on Win7, it was running the best i've seen it by disabling HT and some other tweaks in this thread. Thanks to all. But really, disabling HT? Didnt anyone at BIS have an I7 or cpu with HT while developing? Thats a big thing to 'slip' by

This game is so frustrating, if it was anything else it would've been binned on day one!

That's what I'm saying. I'm glad I made this thread and was told to disable HT, because I definitely never suspected that as the culprit of the stuttering. The odd part too is it only happened in Windows 7 for me. :confused: In Vista HT didn't cause ANY stuttering at all. I can only hope that future patches and driver updates will resolve this problem, but I'm sure the developers are hard at work on their new expansion pack instead...

:icon_rolleyes: