Path 1.03

[MarvinTheMartian 10]

I have been playing Bohemia games since OF and ArmA, but only recently joined the forums for ArmA2. So don't flame me for being a n00b as i'm not. Just wanted to clear that up, as i've seen a few forum veterans having a go at people who "appear" to have just come on the scene and started to moan. :D Also i hope this post is in the right place!

As happy as i am with patch 1.03 in some respects, i feel there is still room for major imrpovements. I can appreciate that Bohemia want to address performance issues and CTD issues over cosmetic ( gfx errors etc ) issues. This is fine and totally understandable. However, i have to confess to being majorly dissapointed in the fact that some of the main bugs/problems and a lot of these cosmetic issues seem to have just been ignored. Just making the game look bad and unfinshed in general, and spoiling my immersion in the game. Let me explain what i mean:-

1) It is my understanding (from playing and what i've read on these forums) that the AI can see straight through the grass, trees and the smoke grenades! I know they see straight through the grass and the smoke...not sure about the trees. My point is this...there doesnt seem to be any fix for this at all in 1.03. What is the point in having the grass and smoke grenades in game? if they AI can see straight through them? What is the point in them? They serve no real purpose at all...other than cosmetic/eye candy and to make the game look pretty. If the AI can see straight through grass and smoke...why should i have grass turned on? Having grass turned on is effectively giving the player a HUGE disadvantage...i.e. i lie down in the grass...i cant see the enemy...but BANG...i'm dead. They saw me from 200 metres away even though i'm in long grass and can't see anything myself. The same goes for smoke grenades from infantry and tanks. Many a time i have put out lots of smoke grenades only to be shot by someone/something that sees me. Even though i am surrounded by smoke and cant see ANYTHING myself in a full 360 degree circle. The same also goes for tanks etc. Lots of times i have seen tanks put out so many smoke grenades i cant see ANYTHING. I can't see the tank at all. Yet he instantly sees me through his own wall of smoke and shoots me dead? Does Bohemia even plan on addressing this...ever?

2) Night vision stars...The night time stars in game are great and as i've read somewhere there are apparently about 9000 stars in the night sky...all meticiously placed in the exact real world locations as it were. That's great Bohemia...well done. But can i ask why you OBVIOUSLY spent a hell of a lot of time getting the stars to be so correct and look so good, but fail to address what they look like in night vision goggles? The stars in NVG are jusy WAY WAY over the top. They appear to be about 20 times bigger than what they are when your not wearing NVG. I know alot of people have complained about this problem...so why hasn't it been addressed? Surely it's not hard to tone down the size of the stars in NVG? I'n my opinion they should only be about twice as big in NVG. I know some of you may well reply saying it's realistic and they would be that big? Er??? They look like big splodges in the sky and REALLY make the game look bad. Surely not a big fix to do, but one which would INSTANTLY improve the look of the game. Will this ever be addressed?

3) Flares and NVG...to be honest i can appreciate that you wanted to make the flares flicker as they do in real life. But at the expense of making everything else flicker very very badly in NVG...why did you bother? If flares go up and i'm wearing NVG, the flickering is ludicrous. One second it's normal the next...huge sections of landscape/trees/houses/people are flickering strobing between lit and not lit. Massive sections of the environment go black...totally black...then jump back to normal lighting a few times a second. It looks awful, and it is a serious strobing effect that frankly RUINS my experience of night fighting and gives me major headaches after about 20 mins. I know in patch 1.03 you've changed the flares apparently so i'm not sure if this is truly adressed. But it seriously spoils night fighting...and at present i don't even bother to play when it's night time. Which is a shame as it's a very atmospheric part of the game. I love the night time tracer fire etc, the paranoia of it being dark, the tone it sets in game. But then it's totally ruined as soon as a flare goes up, gives me serious headaches and i quit the game. It's probably just as well i don't suffer from epilepsy!? (a lawsuit waiting to happen maybe?) :eek:

4) Not sure if this is definately the case...but why do tanks etc "appear" to see me in the dark? It's pitch black...i'm hiding in a forest...i'm looking at the crew who are turned out in a tank. None of them have NVG on. As far as i can remember none of the tanks have an NVG system built in. So if the crew and the tank dont have NVG...how the hell can they see me 300m away in a forest? Especially when there aren't even flares going up, and i'm not firing weapons...so muzzle flash? Maybe they heard me or someone else with nvg has seen me...and reported my position to the AI? Just i swear sometimes i think..."how the hell can you possibly know where i am?" :D

5) Still no countermeasures in the game what so ever??? Not exactly the realistic military sim that you claim when not one of the aircraft in game have any counter measures. Does this intend to be addressed? I know that the missiles in game are meant to be I.R. and in real life (apparently) you wouldnt get a lock tone or anything...but come on! For the sake of playability surely you can address this. Currently you have absolutely no way of defending yourself in an aircraft. Even a lock on tone of some description would be helpful, as at present you don't even know if your flying into or away from danger. And before any of you say...use your radar. Well if i'm flying a MH60 sure i can see the red dots...but i cant target anything to see if its a tungusta im flying towards! Many a time i have been shot down 2 seconds after take off...cos there is a tungusta outside my main base. Surely this needs to be addressed, or are Bohemia just going to wait for the community to address this...as they did for ArmA?

These are what i consider major annoyances. I am as a say, very grateful for patch 1.03. But i can't help being amazed the problems i've listed above that i and a lot of others are complaining about have still not been addressed at all. As i have said i can appreciate Bohemia want to address other "more important" issues first...but come on...please please don't forget about the "cosmetic" problems too. Especially when some of them spoil an otherwise BRILLIANT AMAZING GAME. I love ArmA2 and am blown away by how good it is in a lot of respects, but i am also baffled at how bad it is in other respects. If this was your first or even second militray war sim you could be forgiven for problems/bugs. The fact that you have been making this genre of game for about 10 years...and also make VBS2.0 which you seel to various militaries around the world say to me that you should have this format ABSOLUTELY NAILED by now. Come on Bohemia...we know you can do it. We or at least i and most of the other people on these forums have faith in you. Once all these problems have been addressed i'm sure ArmA2 will rightly win accolades. I patiently await the next patch. :)

[Big Dawg KS 6]

1) It is my understanding (from playing and what i've read on these forums) that the AI can see straight through the grass, trees and the smoke grenades! I know they see straight through the grass and the smoke...

Try telling that to Maruk...

[Danny_P 0]

To get people off the whole thing about IR rockets cannot be detected etc

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/systems/ircm.htm

[MarvinTheMartian 10]

Yeah i didn't know if it was right...which is why i said "apparently" It was just what i had read in other posts in this forum. I may not understand how a real ECM (electronic counter measure) works or the exact mechanics... But i do know i'd like somekind of warning system. I'm sure the majority of people will understand what i'm trying to say in regards to the missiles point. :D

[scruffy 22]

Well, the smoke part worked for me, at least on 1.0 or 1.01 when I tested it. But maybe it's the same with as with the grass: Only relevant before you are detected?

[manzilla 1]

Welcome MarvinTheMartian! I gotta agree with most of your first post. I'd like to see these as well.

It is my understanding (from playing and what i've read on these forums) that the AI can see straight through the grass, trees and the smoke grenades! I know they see straight through the grass and the smoke...not sure about the trees.

I've read this a lot as well but I gotta say that I only noticed this in v1.00 German. Since then I've been able to stay prone in the grass many times with enemies very close and never get spotted. Occasionally I'm picked of in the grass during a fire fight but it's so infrequent I'm thinking it may just be a lucky shot with by a stray or coming from an enemy AI somewhere that I can't see but may have been momentarily visible. Who knows though, maybe I'm just getting lucky or don't realize I'm concealed some other way.(i.e. the terrain, etc.)

Anyway, welcome again.

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

To get people off the whole thing about IR rockets cannot be detected etc

Yes this technology exists but very few aircraft are fitted with it as standard. Generally speaking a "heat seeking" missile will arrive with little or no warning due to the nature of its guidance system and this is why MANPADS are so dangerous as there is no surface to air radar, just some guy with a launcher. There would never be a lock tone as the lock is simply established by the missile acquiring the heat source, not bouncing a radar signal off the target which almost certainly would be detected.

Marvin, if there is a Tunguska outside your main base, don't take off. Kill it first.

Edited August 6, 2009 by TechnoTerrorist303

[MarvinTheMartian 10]

Well yes taking off would be suicide and stupid IF I KNEW IT WAS THERE.

The point i'm making is that if you don't know it's there...your dead. Simple as that. It would be NICE to have some warning for playabilities sake. i know it's a military sim. but alot of the faetures aren't EXACT. You have to change some things to keep the game playable. Whether it's realistic or not. And if the community can make really good ECM mods, why can't Bohemia. What military aircraft are made nowadays without some kind of warning/ecm system? ... not many if any at all i can tell you.

Edited August 6, 2009 by MarvinTheMartian

[Krutish 0]

I share your concerns Marvin, I really do! In fact I've just about given up with Arma 2 all together and haven't bothered to download patch 1.03, and why should I? I've heard it all before how bugs will be patched and improvements made! well 8 years, 3 games and God now's how many patches BIS games still fail to deliver!

Don't get me wrong, I have respect for BIS and what they have tried to achieve here, that's why I've stuck with their games for so long. But if the truth be known they lack the ability to deliver what us FPS sim fans crave for. I brought OFP, I brought Armed Assault, and I'm happy to say I didn't buy Arma 2 and never will! My nephew was one of those that rushed out on the hype to buy Arma 2 the day it was release here in the UK, after about a week of playing it he handed the game to me and said “Here, its crap!†No, its not crap, its just not what he wants in a FPS, but it is buggy as hell, seems 3 quarters finished (like Arma1) and runs like a 3 legged pig thats eaten to many fermented apples. And it still as the same old Ai problems inherited from OFP/Arma... I expected so much more, its just arma 1 with slightly better graphics and more toys to play with. Just because you can get killed by a single round doesn't make a game realistic! Plus, spending more time in the forums looking for solutions is not the ideal way to play a game! There were more active members in the trouble shooting part of the forums then there were players on servers within the first few weeks of release, that says it all!

Oh, by the way, I loved the sound in Arma2, whether they are authentic sounds or not, bullets cracking left and right of you and ricocheting in all directions in glorious 5.1 surround sound was very impressive. If only they could sort that damn Ai out! It really is pathetic!

Marvin, you wont get a lot of sympathy here, after-all, this is the Fanboys Forum, they live in denial!

My hope lies elsewhere! (October 9th)

Krutish

[droezelke 10]

I share your concerns Marvin, I really do! In fact I've just about given up with Arma 2 all together and haven't bothered to download patch 1.03, and why should I? I've heard it all before how bugs will be patched and improvements made! well 8 years, 3 games and God now's how many patches BIS games still fail to deliver!

Don't get me wrong, I have respect for BIS and what they have tried to achieve here, that's why I've stuck with their games for so long. But if the truth be known they lack the ability to deliver what us FPS sim fans crave for. I brought OFP, I brought Armed Assault, and I'm happy to say I didn't buy Arma 2 and never will! My nephew was one of those that rushed out on the hype to buy Arma 2 the day it was release here in the UK, after about a week of playing it he handed the game to me and said “Here, its crap!†No, its not crap, its just not what he wants in a FPS, but it is buggy as hell, seems 3 quarters finished (like Arma1) and runs like a 3 legged pig thats eaten to many fermented apples. And it still as the same old Ai problems inherited from OFP/Arma... I expected so much more, its just arma 1 with slightly better graphics and more toys to play with. Just because you can get killed by a single round doesn't make a game realistic! Plus, spending more time in the forums looking for solutions is not the ideal way to play a game! There were more active members in the trouble shooting part of the forums then there were players on servers within the first few weeks of release, that says it all!

Oh, by the way, I loved the sound in Arma2, whether they are authentic sounds or not, bullets cracking left and right of you and ricocheting in all directions in glorious 5.1 surround sound was very impressive. If only they could sort that damn Ai out! It really is pathetic!

Marvin, you wont get a lot of sympathy here, after-all, this is the Fanboys Forum, they live in denial!

My hope lies elsewhere! (October 9th)

Krutish

I agree with you and the posts above. I have not been a long time bisforums poster. But since I came here I have followed the various topics more than once every day. Say something negative about the game (about performance, bugs, etc), and you can be sure to be flamed at by fanboys who are just living in denial that Arma2 did not deliver quality. OPF and Arma 1 are games that I see as 'work in progress games' that should have lead to a great third game, but it's the same story as before. The game is unfinished in such a way that even after 3 patches you could already predict this game will never be the game it should have been. I, being a musician, compare it to a song I have written that doesn't seem to work, and I am trying to fix by adding layers and layers, changing arrangements and so on, only to realize it's not the arrangements, but the melody just isn't good enough.

If OPF: dragon rising turns out the better of the two, I don't think I will ever return to BIS products.

[PuFu 4600]

[...]

If OPF: dragon rising turns out the better of the two, I don't think I will ever return to BIS products.

I cannot remind you of this:

On the original post, i do agree, but with a bit of patience, it will be fixed either by BIS, or community, one way or the other. I have some dumb faith if you will.

[MarvinTheMartian 10]

As i said in my first post, i've been playing these games from Bohemia for years and years. I do also consider myself a "fanboy" as it were to some degree. Although i take pride in NOT jumping down the throats of people that make sensible comments about a game they have bought and are unhappy with. It's called freedom of speech people!

What frustrates me, is that alot of the issues i have listed are well known. I haven't even began to go into the performance issues.

And to be honest i haven't had time to thouroughly test 1.03. These are just things i have noticed instantly right from the off.

But how loudly do we have to SCREAM as a LOYAL community, before Bohemia start listening and addressing the MAJOR frustrations in their products? As i also have said i love the game, i think Bohemia have achieved a marvelous thing in ArmA2. Sure there are performance issues and slight bugs. But it sure is frustrating to keep reporting these bugs...then wait 6 weeks or however long for the next patch...only to discover most of the main problems still haven't been addressed. :(

[droezelke 10]

I cannot remind you of this:

On the original post, i do agree, but with a bit of patience, it will be fixed either by BIS, or community, one way or the other. I have some dumb faith if you will.

I don't understand the cartoon being related to my post.

That being said. I also believe that most problems will be eventually cleared out (after a long series of patches and a lot of patience). My point was actually: BIS has had the opportunity to make 3 games, with all three being the same game basicly. If those were three different sorts of games, I could understand more that every game would have it's flaws. But Operation Flashpoint, Arma1 and Arma2 are the same in structure and gameplay. So they had 3 full blown tries to make THAT game work. But every time, they were flawed in a way that is unacceptable. To quote some people here on the forums: BIS has released 3 beta-games at full price. Only after a year and a half of patches, the games were what I would call: release-ready.

That is the reason why I said: if Operation Flashpoint: dragon rising (awfull title) turns out to be the game that tops Arma2, I will buy it and never look back at BIS. BIS has received 4 times the money for a full priced game (I bought Arma2 2 times, on steam and on disc) from me, and I think I have done my part as a consumer. Now was the time they should have done their part as developpers, but they didn't succeed again. To say it harsh: 3 strikes and you're out.

[PuFu 4600]

well, that pic was made after a video presentation from one of the OFPDR developers, where he got shot from close range in the head, and he said the lines in the picture....

[bravo 6 0]

LOL

Sorry, I couldn't resist.