A way to remove profanity II

[nomdeplume 0]

Your kids are going to hear someone cursing at some point and will repeat it and there is nothing you can do about it! It's part of growing up and challenging the moral staus. It may come from a video game, overheard from a grown-up conversation or from a 'bad' kid at school or whatever. It will happen and it's every parent's job to explain to the kids WHY swearing is not acceptable, instead of trying to make swearing dissapear in a fucking game.

So every parent should swear regularly in front of their kids while simultaneously telling them why it's bad to use that kind of language and they shouldn't do it?

Sure they're going to encounter it in other places like at school and so on, but not many kids will be impressed by their parents telling them swearing is a big no-no if their parents then go play video games which have swearing in them for entertainment. It sends a very mixed message. I think most kids would just resent their parents for being hypocritical and not living by their own rules; not to mention making swearing seem like a cool privilege grown-ups get, like drinking or driving, that they can't wait to do.

On a more general note, why is it so hard for people to understand that different people have different experiences when playing games? I live alone and always play with headphones, so what happens in the game has zero effect on anyone else. DMarkwick clearly has a family and prefers to play without headphones; this might just be a preference thing or might be for practical reasons (to be able to listen in on the kids playing in the next room, for example). He also mentioned some of the 'ambient injury' sounds lessen the immersion when playing stealth missions. I don't (currently) play the game that way so it's not an issue for me, but I can understand how it would be a bit annoying when you're painstakingly creeping around an enemy base and then you or someone says "fuck! my leg". It doesn't really jive with the atmosphere.

So chill out. It's not an attack on your freedoms, it's not an attempt to censor the world, and it was only ever suggested as being an option for people who want it. And every parent has the right to raise their kids the way they want, and if you really want to offer advice at least read their posts so you have some idea of what the situation actually is. That goes out to all the "so you're ok with your kids watching you kill people not with them hearing swearing?" crowd who obviously couldn't be bothered reading the post where he says they're in another room and uninterested in the game, but can hear it.

... I think I'd better unsubscribe from this thread. :D

[ashikar 0]

So every parent should swear regularly in front of their kids while simultaneously telling them why it's bad to use that kind of language and they shouldn't do it?

... I think I'd better unsubscribe from this thread. :D

Where on earth did you read that parents should swear in front of their kids? Maybe you should go back and read the post before getting your panties in a bunch. Nobody is saying to go out to your kids and just start blerting the word fuck at them. What the post is saying is its your job to teach your kids right front wrong.

---------- Post added at 12:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------

I think most kids would just resent their parents for being hypocritical and not living by their own rules

I disagree strongly. I grew up with my parents smoking in the house.. They smoked.. as do MILLIONS of other parents.. They told me NOT to smoke.. yes thats a bit hypocritical sure. Do i resent them for it? HELL NO.. They did a good thing.. A lot of parents like to have a few drinks as well.. Yet im sure they teach their kids not to drink before they are 21.. And yet again most parents swear, yet it is their job to teach their kids not too.. yes perhaps its a bit hypocritical, but its what you need to do as a parent.. Monkey do as i say, not monkey see monkey do :)

And if you resent your parents becuase of any of these things.... sounds like you are a spoiled brat.. They give you a place to live, and feed you.. Live by their rules.

[dmarkwick 261]

Where on earth did you read that parents should swear in front of their kids? Maybe you should go back and read the post before getting your panties in a bunch.

Maybe it was in the same post where I said I love to have my kids watching me kill humans on a screen, but am appalled when I hear the word "fuck"?

And if you resent your parents becuase of any of these things.... sounds like you are a spoiled brat.. They give you a place to live, and feed you.. Live by their rules.

I'm not inclined to listen too strongly to someone who attacks one of the more intelligent posters on these boards.

Toodles :)

---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 PM ----------

... I think I'd better unsubscribe from this thread. :D

Heh, well I appreciate that you seem to understand the points raised in this thread. Preference, parenting, resources, immersion, all are points you've successfully acknowledged.

The thread itself is not meant to be taken too seriously BTW, I made it with reference to the original thread (which I linked into) and my surprise at the various levels of righteous ranting that it provoked. I wasn't disappointed in this thread either :D

[ashikar 0]

Hes obviously not talking about your post.. He quoted the post he is talking about.. And i dont see how he can possibly take that as "lets go out and start cursing all the time in front of our kids" i Dont see how you can come to that conclusion from reading what he quoted.... So please pay attention here Dmark

---------- Post added at 01:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:08 PM ----------

I'm not inclined to listen too strongly to someone who attacks one of the more intelligent posters on these boards.

Toodles :)

---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 PM ----------

What makes this person so intelligent? because he shares your common belief? Once again.. If you go back and read what i actually said.. you will see that this is not a personal attack agasint him.. I didnt call him spoiled specificly. I said if you resent your parents for the things i listed, you are a spoiled brat.. Where in there did i single him out?

Edited August 3, 2009 by ashikar

[dmarkwick 261]

Hes obviously not talking about your post.. He quoted the post he is talking about..

I know, the point is he doesn't need a direct quote to make a point, that point I made was also never made, but people jumped all over it. Same thing.

What makes this person so intelligent? because he shares your common belief?

Because he addresses ALL the points, not just the one he can easily rant against.

[ashikar 0]

Because he addresses ALL the points, not just the one he can easily rant against.

Absolutly wrong, he did not address all the points. Try again. In fact he started his post with a "rant" as well saying "So every parent should swear regularly in front of their kids while simultaneously telling them why it's bad to use that kind of language and they shouldn't do it?"

He might have addressed all the points you wanted him too.. Might have addressed all the points that prove your case yes... If this biased conclusion is "intelligence" in your mind so be it.

[dmarkwick 261]

Toodles :)

[ashikar 0]

Toodles :)

Bye mate, fun discussion :)

[TRexian 0]

Grownups curse. Particularly male grownups. I think the cursing in the game does simulate real life military grownups.

But, there are all sorts of options to make the game less realistic (as noted in my earlier post on page 6) if people want it to be so. How many of you using the "but that's the way military people speak" line of reasoning play with little unrealistic things like the waypoint indicator, aim reticle, show-the-identity-when-you're-aiming-at-the-unit option, or even the map that shows the locations of the enemies on it that you're sorta aware of?

My understanding of D's original post is that the OPTION should be available. People can avail themselves of it or not, as they see fit, just like the hundred other gameplay options.

Particularly since the option should have no impact on MP or "cheating" or anything like that. What's the real controversy? Ah... right... I've seen this before. It is a matter of ego. The sense that "There Is Only One Right Way To Play And It Is Mine"... :D

[nomdeplume 0]

Where on earth did you read that parents should swear in front of their kids? Maybe you should go back and read the post before getting your panties in a bunch. Nobody is saying to go out to your kids and just start blerting the word fuck at them. What the post is saying is its your job to teach your kids right front wrong.

Yes, and part of teaching your kids right from wrong is setting an example for them to follow. "Do as I say, not as I do" is a terrible strategy and one that's best used as a last resort.

The post I quoted basically said it doesn't matter if your kids hear bad language in games you're playing because they're going to hear it from other adults or kids at school and so on. As if context doesn't matter. I simply restated this in simpler terms so as to make it crystal clear that context does matter and who's saying these things does matter to the kid. Your response makes it clear that you think it's a really bad idea for parents to deliberately swear in front of their kids, and I'm simply arguing that having parents play games where there's unnecessary swearing (is there such a thing as necessary swearing?) sets a bad example.

So you tell them that swearing is bad and it's offensive to some people and they're too young to properly understand it and they should ignore it and not try to use it for the time being until they're a bit more mature. All well and good. But if you're constantly playing games that have swearing and watching movies with swearing (and the kid can hear this), then they're going to end up a bit confused. Sure you've explained your stance, but part of your stance is predicated on the assumption that they're not fully capable of understanding when it's okay and when it's not okay to use foul language, so assuming they really understand why they shouldn't be 'interested in' swear words yet is a bit strange.

Do i resent them for it? HELL NO..

Okay "resent" was probably too strong a word. Yes, many parents smoke and teach their kids that it's bad to, and many of the kids learn from that. You can also argue that smoking and drinking and swearing and not holding down a job and generally being an asshole are good things because when your kids eventually enter their rebellious phase, they'll act like pretty decent people. ;)

However, did your parents smoking and then hypocritically telling you not to actually benefit you? If they'd been able to quit smoking, do you think you would have been worse off? Just because your parent's hypocritical behaviour didn't have a negative on you doesn't mean that there aren't better ways to teach your children your own values.

Because he addresses ALL the points, not just the one he can easily rant against.

Hey, I can rant against anything! It's my special power. Also apparently I didn't unsubscribe. ;)

---------- Post added at 09:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 PM ----------

He might have addressed all the points you wanted him too.. Might have addressed all the points that prove your case yes... If this biased conclusion is "intelligence" in your mind so be it.

It's polite to give people a chance to explain themselves if you don't understand what they're saying. I know my posts tend to be a bit verbose, I really try to limit their length; but every word is there for a reason. I have explained at length the meaning of the sentence which so shocked you, and hopefully you can have another go at comprehending my post and then discuss it based on what I said, not what you wish I'd said.

It is a matter of ego. The sense that "There Is Only One Right Way To Play And It Is Mine"... :D

You win! That really is all it comes down to, isn't it? I guess swearing is one of those things that triggers people's superiority complex, i.e. those who think having their games swear at them all the time is 'realistic' and 'hardcore' think anyone who doesn't like it is a pussy; while those who find swearing boring or simply inappropriate for the situations in which they're able to play the game think it's 'immature' and 'adoloscent'. And even if they don't think that way, people on the other side of the fence assume they do.

This thread was doomed from the start, but it was fun.

Edited August 5, 2009 by some kind of guy

[ashikar 0]

It's polite to give people a chance to explain themselves if you don't understand what they're saying. I know my posts tend to be a bit verbose, I really try to limit their length; but every word is there for a reason. I have explained at length the meaning of the sentence which so shocked you, and hopefully you can have another go at comprehending my post and then discuss it based on what I said, not what you wish I'd said.

What the hell are you talking about? i quite clearly understand your post.. Im not sure what you think "so shocked" me like im an old lady.. Was simply restating what you had posted. Dmark claims your intelligent becuase you touch on all the topics.. i simply stated you didnt touch on all the topics, only the ones that proved your point..

[stevevcb 3]

My parents swore in front of me and my sister all the time when I was a kid, so swearing was never a taboo in our house. They just told us not to, because only grown-ups were allowed to swear, so we didn't until we were older. They also smoked, but told us not to because it was stupid, and so we didn't do that either.

As long as a kid understands right from wrong, any examples you set don't neccessarily have to be good ones.

[ashikar 0]

What's the real controversy? Ah... right... I've seen this before. It is a matter of ego. The sense that "There Is Only One Right Way To Play And It Is Mine"... :D

I think this about sums it up.

This thread needs to be closed.. We arnt going to convince you that cursing is ok. And your not going to convince people that it should be removed.. You have your belief that it should be removed, we have ours that says it should remain the same. Lets agree to disagree and quit with the douchebaggery

Edited August 3, 2009 by ashikar

[TRexian 0]

See - not to belabor the point, but I don't need convincing that swearing is ok. :) I know it to be true, and I have no doubt D does, too. And, I'm not arguing that the swearing needs to be removed. I haven't said that and I don't think D has, either. :)

I think the middle ground that people are missing is that it should be an OPTION to remove it.

I refuse to agree to disagree about things upon which there is no disagreement. :D

Some people are against the option, and I haven't the foggiest idea why. To me, it like being against having an option for a radio in a car. Ok, most everyone will want a radio in a car. But, for a variety of reasons (some good, some bad) some people might not want a radio in a car. What's the harm of having it as an option? :)

[able78 10]

Some people are against the option, and I haven't the foggiest idea why. To

You have seriously got to be kidding me.. You just stated 20 minutes ago "It is a matter of ego. The sense that "There Is Only One Right Way To Play And It Is Mine"... "

Yet you come on and say you havent the foggiest idea why? of course you do! Male ego. Thats what it boils down to

[dmarkwick 261]

This thread needs to be closed.. We arnt going to convince you that cursing is ok. And your not going to convince people that it should be removed.. You have your belief that it should be removed, we have ours that says it should remain the same. Lets agree to disagree and quit with the douchebaggery

Actually, that's not the suggestion. The suggestion is to have it as an option. As such, it's a valid thread :)

[hamis 0]

Yeah,call me oldtimer(i'm already 45).I think those who want to hear cursing all the time must be really sick!I'm really fed up to hear it in movies(friggin hollywood,it's their fault)and certainly i hate to hear it in games.I like good manners and swearing doesn't belong to them,in the 80's every second word i heard in the streets or cafe's was NOT f*ck or sh*t!I'm going to replace those words myself then i buy arma2,which is 2-3 patches away.:mad:

[vengeance1 50]

I was rather appalled by the replies that Kawilder got when asking if it's possible to remove profanity in ArmA2 (Original thread.). As the thread was closed because a suggestion could not be inferred, I'll post a direct suggestion:

Can a future version of ArmA have the ability to turn off all unnecessary voice samples? They don't add anything to the game IMO and it's only an extension of being able to tweak the graphics, blood etc to taste.

It doesn't make me feel big or tough to play a game with profanity, in fact it rather annoys me. However, as a lot of other people seem to think that it's rather a good idea, maybe there could be some amount of choice in the matter. I know the game has blood, death & injury, but you know, it's my choice about how I play & what I experience. I'd like the opportunity to lose the swearing please. I enjoy the tactical nature of the game I've done the armed forces thing, it was fun, but I'd like the game at least able to shut it off thanks :)

Please, lets keep the discussion, if not the language, at adult levels please :)

I totally agree and quite frankly it not something I want my kids listening to or playing. Make it selectable at the very least. Turning off Radio is not the Answer.

[nomdeplume 0]

What the hell are you talking about? i quite clearly understand your post..

I'm not convinced, since you only responded to the very first sentence in the post and ignored the rest which gave it context. Even now, after I spent some time explaining the purpose of that sentence in context of the rest of the post, you're still refusing to discuss it.

So once again: kids learn by being told right and wrong, but also from learning right and wrong from the behaviour of their role models. If swearing is wrong and only immature/stupid/offensive people do it, then why does daddy enjoy playing a game that keeps swearing? Sure, you might be able to explain why daddy likes something that's bad, but if daddy doesn't find it particularly enjoyable then why not just turn it off and avoid the whole issue? Why needlessly complicate things?

I have a feeling you've already stopped reading this post and are working on a reply, so I'm going to do a little experiment, in two parts. Here's part one: if you use the word "mightily" in your reply to me, I'll give you $100.

Im not sure what you think "so shocked" me like im an old lady.. Was simply restating what you had posted.

I was taking the piss. Although now I am starting to think it may have actually shocked you, in that you seem to be incapable of moving on and talking about anything other than that one sentence -- even after it was explained that it was deliberately absurd in order to make a point.

Here's the second part of the experiment: Sorry, I was just kidding. I won't really give you $100 for using the word "mightily". But I will be interested to see if you do and request payment, citing part one of this experiment. :D

[ashikar 0]

I'm not convinced, since you only responded to the very first sentence in the post and ignored the rest which gave it context. Even now, after I spent some time explaining the purpose of that sentence in context of the rest of the post, you're still refusing to discuss it.

So once again: kids learn by being told right and wrong, but also from learning right and wrong from the behaviour of their role models. If swearing is wrong and only immature/stupid/offensive people do it, then why does daddy enjoy playing a game that keeps swearing? Sure, you might be able to explain why daddy likes something that's bad, but if daddy doesn't find it particularly enjoyable then why not just turn it off and avoid the whole issue? Why needlessly complicate things?

I have a feeling you've already stopped reading this post and are working on a reply, so I'm going to do a little experiment, in two parts. Here's part one: if you use the word "mightily" in your reply to me, I'll give you $100.

I was taking the piss. Although now I am starting to think it may have actually shocked you, in that you seem to be incapable of moving on and talking about anything other than that one sentence -- even after it was explained that it was deliberately absurd in order to make a point.

Here's the second part of the experiment: Sorry, I was just kidding. I won't really give you $100 for using the word "mightily". But I will be interested to see if you do and request payment, citing part one of this experiment. :D

Yet another example of douchebaggery

[dmarkwick 261]

i have a feeling you've already stopped reading this post and are working on a reply, so i'm going to do a little experiment, in two parts. Here's part one: If you use the word "mightily" in your reply to me, i'll give you $100.

yet another example of douchebaggery

lol :D

[able78 10]

Mark, Some kind of Guy, and ashikar.. You 3 are complete tools... Quit the bitching.. Not sure what one of you 3 takes the cake, but its getting annoying. You guys just need to let the bickering go...

[dmarkwick 261]

This thread is turning into a riot :D

[able78 10]

Here's the second part of the experiment: Sorry, I was just kidding. I won't really give you $100 for using the word "mightily". But I will be interested to see if you do and request payment, citing part one of this experiment. :D

Maybe if you were to drop the elitist attitude you would get more positive responses. Clearly you are looking for a reaction from him is all.

Why do you 3 always have to be right?? why cant either of you 3 let something go.. I wonder who the first one of you 3 to flame for this post will be..

[nomdeplume 0]

Yet another example of douchebaggery

Aw man, I must be in the wrong room. I came here for an argument, not for abuse! ;)

---------- Post added at 11:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 PM ----------

Maybe if you were to drop the elitist attitude you would get more positive responses.

I guess I have a very different sense of humour than you do. :) I figured anyone wanting to have a constructive discussion left a long time ago when the thread was first derailed. I am slightly curious as to whether or not ashikar is reading posts entirely before responding to them, or just skim-reading for points that stick out; but I don't particular care, hence my less-than-serious responses.

That said, there is material in my posts for those who do want to have a serious discussion. ashikar (and others) have again declined to discuss my suggestion that "the things daddy's games say" are as important as "the things daddy says himself"; which again I assume means anyone who is interested in such things has left long ago. This isn't a parenting forum, after all.