Tank armor and weapon ratings

[GT-Maddtim 0]

I was wondering if anyone had the information available in regards to the armor ratings of both the M1A1 and T80, along with the damage caused when they shoot something (both direct and indirect hits). I've done a lot of looking through the various files in the game but have not been able to find the info. If you could let me know what these values are I would be most appreciative.

[XtremeX19 0]

well, i cant tell you much about the game, but in real life the T80 has a 120mm cannon, and sum sort of explosive armor which is supposed to reduce the damage from incoming enemy shells.

the M1a1 has a 90mm cannon, with some sort of classified armor (dont ask wut its made off, i cant remember exactly, but i think its sum sort form of uranium). however, the M1a2 has a 120 mm cannon and some other slight imporvements.

i could tell u more, but i dont feel like typing all that much

o ya, and the m1a1 is faster than the T80, and weighs less.

[Wobble 1]

the T-80 weights less and is smaller thean the M1a1 or A1

the M1A1 and A2 BOTH have a 120mm smoothbore cannon, the T-80 has a lower velocity 125mm cannon.

the T-80 comes standard with ERA (explosive reactive armor) and the M1A1 and A2 have a classified chabum/secret composite armor, plus can be fitted with ERA..

the A1/2 is faster and can stabilize its gun at a faster speed (t-80 can only spabilize at up to 25kmh)

as for shells, the T-80 favors its HEAT and the M1A1/2 its 2 foot long DU rod SABOT.

[rdfox 0]

Actually, the original M1 (no A1 or A2) had a 105mm rifled gun, the same gun as on the M60A3. (This is the one visually depicted in Flashpoint.) After it was finally recognized that the old 105 rifle was badly underpowered, the Army adopted the Rheinmetall 120mm smoothbore cannon that the Germans had developed for the Leopard 2.

As for damage levels, there's a story from Desert Storm that gives some anecdotal information. An M1A1 got stuck in mud at one point, and was left behind by its unit. While waiting for recovery vehicles to come extract it from the mud, three Iraqi T-72s stumbled across it. The first T-72 fired a round from about 500 meters that simply bounced off the M1's armor, and was promptly dispatched by the Abrams. A second one got two rounds off, one of which bounced off and one of which grooved the armor. The M1 blew that T-72's turret off with its second round of the engagement.

The third T-72, seeing that continued engagement wasn't a viable option, attempted to hide behind a sand berm, but the M1 targetted with its thermal sights, and put a round through the berm and killed the T-72 from two kilometers away. Once the tank recovery vehicle and its escorting M1A1 arrived, it was unable to free the stuck Abrams, so the escorting tank was ordered to destroy it to prevent it from being captured.

The first three rounds fired essentially point-blank from the M1A1 bounced off the Abrams's armor. The fourth one did finally penetrate the turret's ammunition stores, but the blow-off panels on the turret did their job and vented the explosion out the top instead of it destroying the tank. By this time, two more recovery vehicles had arrived, and were able to free the tank. It was hauled back to a repair depot, where they found that all that was needed to return it to combat was patching the hole, replacing the blow-off panels, recharging the Halon extinguishers, and re-aligning the sights.

RDF

[GT-Maddtim 0]

Thanks for the input all, but here's why I'd like to know. As part of a league I'm in, they attempt to design maps that are as even as possible. To this end when the West is given an Abrams, the East gets a T80. Now it has been our experience that, in OFP at least, the M1 has a faster load rate, better armor, and does more damage per hit. In order to give a proper argument to better balance the missions, I'm trying to figure out, based on the in-game stats, approximately how many rounds it should take an M1 to kill a T80 and vice versa. Now I know the crew can be killed before the tank based on certain variables, but I'd like to know the in game specifics of what each can dish out as well as take. If anyone can give me this info (BIS?) I'd really appreciate it.

[Guest Scooby]

That last story someone posted is just an legend.

[DodgeME 0]

Is a legend unless the M1A1 comes with a sabot reflector shield something like Star Wars or Darth Vader was using the force to send the sabot rounds back

Anyway the M1A1 in the game is overpowered. You can destroy everything with that. I got hits from AT and Bmp's with NO damage at all.

[munger 25]

Depends where you were hit. If the BMP and AT weapons hit the frontal arc of the M1 there WOULDN'T be any damage realistically. From the sides an AT4 may penetrate I'm not sure. From the rear it almost certainly would. The cannon on the BMP-1 (is it 60mm?) would have trouble damaging an M1 from any angle, although possibly a direct shot from the rear at the engine block or the ammo in the turret could disable the tank (engine) or blow the ammo (turret).

[DodgeME 0]

Well l would like to see more realisitc tanks with IR and realistic armour and firepower.

[Rageman 0]

Right, i've studied tank stuff for a few years now and heres my two cents.

WEAPONS

1>yes the M1 has the 105mm gun, the M1a1 and M1a2 use the Smoothbore Rheinmetal 120mm gun. In reality the two basic Anti-Armour rounds are the APFSDS (Armour Piercing Fin Stabalised Discarding Sabot) Sabot refers to the "shoe" (french for shoe is Sabot) that fits round the Kinetic Energy Penetrator (either Heavy Metal Staballoy or Depleted Uranium) the sabot allows the gases to push the smaller caliber penetrator out of the barrel. The second round is the HEAT (high explosive anti tank) It uses a "shaped charge warhead" which directs the energy of the explosion on to a small area. The t-80 uses the 125mm gun which is rifled but of a lower pressure so the rounds will not travel as far and in the case of APFSDS rounds the round will not have as much energy when it strikes a target, when compared to the 120mm rheinmetal.

ARMOUR

The M1 series uses the british made CHOBAM armour (named after the town where it is made)it is a mixed composite and ceramic plate and is theorised that either Titanium or Depleted Uranium inserts are used. this armour is applyed to the front of the chassis and to the front and sides of the Turret, the rest is steel. Chobam has a higher resistance to HEAT (which is also the warhead used on anti tank missiles) due to a higher melting point, this ergo absorbes a good deal of the energy from heat rounds. This armour is what gives the Abrams, Challanger and Leopard2 thier Flat surfaces, because the armour cannot be molded into shape. The T-80 uses a similar armour probably of not as good a quality, but the thickness will approach that of the Abrams, the armour on the t-80 is applied in the same way as the Abrams but the whole turret is cast as one peice. ERA are simply blocks of explosives that explode when in contact with AT rounds (and other explosives) this disrupts the directed explosion of the HEAT warhead this dispitating the energy.

Summing Up

Comparing the two vehicles characteristics the two vehicles couls easly take out most other Armoured vehicles NOT mentioned here with a single round (ie like a T-72 and the M60) from all angles, the 120mm gun would probably have to hit 2 or 3 times to penetrate the t-80s armour with APFSDS, the 125mm gun would probably need 4-7 rounds (best estimate) but taken from the rear both would be in the poo . HEAT rounds would be pointless when used against the front and turrets but the armour is vulnerable from the sides (in chechnya T-80's took about 5-8 rnds of RPG-7s into the side or rear, before becoming disabled)

basically the T80 in the game needs some more armour, the M1 needs a lot more armour and both weapons need a little improvement

[XtremeX19 0]

ok..... ya...... he's....... im wrong......

im gonna go shutup now......

and the M1a1 is better, and it should be. on the fact it costs several million more dollars each, it better be worth the price.

[eh remraf 0]

M1A1-A2 cost $700,000 rather than the $1.1 the MBT70 cost. Also, the Abrams has more ammunition than the Discarding Shoe and HEAT. Here is the complete list of used ammunition whithin the US Armed Services.

M829A1 APFSDS-T

M830A1 HEAT

M831A1 TP-T

M865 TPCSDS-T

XM943 STAFF

XM1007 ERM/TERM - Tank Extended Range Munition

X-ROD

Advanced Tungsten KE Cartridge

TP-T refers to Target Practice Tracer

TPCSDS refers to Target Practice Cone Stabalized Discarding SABOT

STAFF refers to Smart Target Fire and Forget. This round is extremely effective against ALL tanks. Even more so then APFSDS. STAFF is a 120mm tank round thatsearches out and destroys enemy armor at distances beyond the reach of conventional munitions. As a top-attack smart munition, STAFF destroys enemy armor by flying over it and firing a highly lethal         ely formed penetrator down into its lightly armored top. No enemy armor is safe from STAFF -- whether it's moving, at long range, or in defilade. Another interesting note is that this round is used to take out helicopters with devastating effects.

ERM refers to Extended Range Munition. This round can actively engage targets past the line of sight (8km)

The X-ROD is a fire and forget munition that can actively seek out and manuever to hit any enemy armor and defeat it.

Here is a shot of an APFSDS in mid-flight

[DodgeME 0]

I thought that they costed much more!!!

[Mindy 0]

All those real world stats are great guys, but I think he wanted the actual values used in OFP.

In which case...

The M1A1 has an armor value of 900. The T80 has an armor value of 700, which is a heavy advantage for the M1A1.

Both the M1A1 and T80 use the same weapons in OFP; "Shell120", "Heat120" and "MachineGun12_7".

Shell 120 has hit value of 200, and an indirect hit value of 150.

Heat 120 has a hit value of 600, and an indirect hit value of 300.

In the game, the Sabot rounds are actually "Heat120", and the HEAT rounds are "Shell120"...seems weird, I know, but it's right.

Two direct hits from the Sabot ("Heat120") will put the T80 to bed. The M1A1 seems to take 3 direct hits.

The M1A1 is slightly faster than the T80 (max speed 72 for the M1A1, 70 for the T80).

Those are the only differences I spot in looking at the config cpp. So all it really breaks down to is the M1A1 has about 30% more armor than the T80.

[kraygh 0]

I wanna jump bak to what wobble said earlier (pg1 i think)

Gun stabilisation

Why is it not included in this game? its damn awkward to keep the barrel on target when using the optics and your driver is charging over hills.

[Beagle 684]

Don't forget aboeut the maximum down levation of the Maingun, it's inacurate for all Armoured vehicles

M60 should have -12°

T-72 schuld have -10°

M1A1 should have -8°

T-80 should have -5°

(estimated but surely close to real)

but ingame, it seems like -1° for all....

[Noose_ITO 0]

Here is some info of real T-72 M1.

Armour thicknes:

frontal hull 24cm

sides of hull 8cm

frontal of tower ~50cm

sides of tower 12-30cm

Of course thicknes is not everything. Material and shape(angle) affects a lot. Wonder what those thickneses are in M1 series and T-80?

BTW. Main gun is 125mm smoothbore not rifled. Muzzle velocity 800-1750 m/s. Rate of fire 6-8 per minute.

[GT-Maddtim 0]

Mindy, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!! That's the exact info I was looking for.