Mouse Lag

[tophe 69]

That helps a bit, but now I have to go back to set the graphics to look like crap. Weird that the same settings didn't produce the same result, or better, on a much better system...

Edited July 28, 2009 by Tophe

[Alex72 1]

Athlon 64 X2 + Nvidia here.

Pre Rendered Limit/Frames set to "1".

No lag what so ever. None of my friends got lag either. All been playing since OpF.

Alex

[someboy 0]

Got not much else to do while we wait for 1.03 Patch, I will dig out my Cam and see what I can come up with.

I watch the Video again I see no latency, like I said from page 3 needs more testing as throwing the mouse around doesn't show anything.

Please give more information on what you mean by latency?

Hi. Sorry for taking so long to answer. It would be great if you could record a video like mine (see this post: http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1368480&postcount=276).

What we mean by latency: a noticeable time elapsed from the moment the mouse starts moving and the moment the weapon in the screen actually starts its movement. It also happens when stoping (the weapon comes to a halt later than the mouse). It is most evident with scope on. Watch the video and ask me any other thing you need to know.

Thanks.

[mrharrod 10]

I believe this down to VSYNC being forced on too. I cannot turn it off via ATI CAT as people know.

Tried to use ATI tools, but cant see an option to force VSYNC off. Anybody got a link/guide, how too please?

Thanks,

Chris.

[wolf_Eversmann 10]

This thing about mouse lag is not about this game only. I've seen it plenty of times in other games and it's all about lack of power from your computer (for whatever reason, i'm not saying that arma2 isn't well optimized).

So, the lower is your fps, the more lag you have.

[mrharrod 10]

This thing about mouse lag is not about this game only. I've seen it plenty of times in other games and it's all about lack of power from your computer (for whatever reason, i'm not saying that arma2 isn't well optimized).

So, the lower is your fps, the more lag you have.

No, sorry it's not ALL about lack of power from a computer. A contributing factor maybe, for some.

I wonder if my i7 4ghz, 12gb, xfire 4870x2 is too weak for mouse input ;)

This game needs two options for those with different hardware profiles and architecture (at the very least).

Chris.

Oh... and this statement "So, the lower is your fps, the more lag you have. " Yes, but we are takling about MOUSE LAG, not FPS issues in reality with this game.

I am getting 60 FPS static with VSYNC on. I want the option to have that increased.

Edited July 28, 2009 by mrharrod

[bigduksixx 15]

No, sorry it's not ALL about lack of power from a computer. A contributing factor maybe, for some.

I wonder if my i7 4ghz, 12gb, xfire 4870x2 is too weak for mouse input ;)

This game needs two options for those with different hardware profiles and architecture (at the very least).

Chris.

Oh... and this statement "So, the lower is your fps, the more lag you have. " Yes, but we are takling about MOUSE LAG, not FPS issues in reality with this game.

I am getting 60 FPS static with VSYNC on. I want the option to have that increased.

Don't see who BI can do anything about that, as it's hardware related. You have the option to turn it off though.

[Leopardi 0]

Don't see who BI can do anything about that, as it's hardware related. You have the option to turn it off though.

BI can add the optino to disable it. With ATI cards you can't turn off vsync.

[mrharrod 10]

dam, I wished a stuck with NVIDIA all those years ago!

[Bulldogs 10]

Control Panel> Display Properties> Settings[TAB]> Advanced> [your card][TAB]>Performance and Quality Settings> Select Vertical Synch under settings and untick apllication controlled, move slider to off.

Some people seem confused as to what V-Sync does so I'll explain it in a basic form.

V-Sync (Vertical Sync) is designed to stop tearing (two frames trying to display on top of each other), it does this by only displaying a frame when your monitor is ready for it. As such it puts a limit on your framerate (not in all cases, but most) in reference to your refresh rate.

A lot of factors go into linking frame rates to refresh rate and in an ideal situation 60 Hz would equal 60 fps, but that's not always the case (most of the time it isn't) In most situations the frame limiter backed with pressure on the system will make 75 Hz refresh rate show 40 fps, but on more intensive games it will only allow for 28-35fps.

Turning off V-Sync increases performance while removing the limit. The downside of removing V-Sync is that it can creat frame tearing (as I mentioned earlier) if your fps gos above your Hz. That said, as long as you're running at 75 Hz on an LCD (as oppose to CRT) then the chances of you noticing the frame tearing is minimal.

[mrharrod 10]

Control Panel> Display Properties> Settings[TAB]> Advanced> [your card][TAB]>Performance and Quality Settings> Select Vertical Synch under settings and untick apllication controlled, move slider to off.

I assume you dont have ati cat installed and vista

[-TwK-Danny 0]

Control Panel> Display Properties> Settings[TAB]> Advanced> [your card][TAB]>Performance and Quality Settings> Select Vertical Synch under settings and untick apllication controlled, move slider to off.

Some people seem confused as to what V-Sync does so I'll explain it in a basic form.

V-Sync (Vertical Sync) is designed to stop tearing (two frames trying to display on top of each other), it does this by only displaying a frame when your monitor is ready for it. As such it puts a limit on your framerate (not in all cases, but most) in reference to your refresh rate.

A lot of factors go into linking frame rates to refresh rate and in an ideal situation 60 Hz would equal 60 fps, but that's not always the case (most of the time it isn't) In most situations the frame limiter backed with pressure on the system will make 75 Hz refresh rate show 40 fps, but on more intensive games it will only allow for 28-35fps.

Turning off V-Sync increases performance while removing the limit. The downside of removing V-Sync is that it can creat frame tearing (as I mentioned earlier) if your fps gos above your Hz. That said, as long as you're running at 75 Hz on an LCD (as oppose to CRT) then the chances of you noticing the frame tearing is minimal.

You forget some small facts people should actually consider when enabling vsync. One of those being that vsync can infact reduce performance by up to 50%, it doesnt just limit the fps.

If in a game, with vsync enabled and you have a 60Hz monitor, you come to a scene (ingame) where your computer can only achive 58fps, then you will only get 30fps due to vsync. This is unacceptable for anyone. Of course if BIS did this exactly, people would call them idiots as nobody wants 30fps when they can have 58fps (or anything between 31-59fps) especially in a game demanding as this.

So what BIS has done to fix this is to also force tripplebuffering. This allows them to force vsync without those fps drops. This is why ArmA2 has fps capped to your refreshrate, but still can have any fps in between without issues (eg people with 60hz monitors can still have stable 47fps ingame).

This is, however, why we have this thread open. Tripple buffering uses more video memory, aswell as introduce inputlag (aha!, mouse lag!). So while BIS wanted to fix an annoying issue (tearing), they did it at the expense of playability and gameplay - unacceptable.

[mrharrod 10]

Danny;1384463']You forget some small facts people should actually consider when enabling vsync. One of those being that vsync can infact reduce performance by up to 50%' date=' it doesnt just limit the fps.

If in a game, with vsync enabled and you have a 60Hz monitor, you come to a scene (ingame) where your computer can only achive 58fps, then you will only get 30fps due to vsync. This is unacceptable for anyone. Of course if BIS did this exactly, people would call them idiots as nobody wants 30fps when they can have 58fps (or anything between 31-59fps) especially in a game demanding as this.

So what BIS has done to fix this is to also force tripplebuffering. This allows them to force vsync without those fps drops. This is why ArmA2 has fps capped to your refreshrate, but still can have any fps in between without issues (eg people with 60hz monitors can still have stable 47fps ingame).

This is, however, why we have this thread open. Tripple buffering uses more video memory, aswell as introduce inputlag (aha!, mouse lag!). So while BIS wanted to fix an annoying issue (tearing), they did it at the expense of playability and gameplay - unacceptable.[/quote']

You sir, are spot on! thumb:

So come on BIS!

[Leopardi 0]

And with 120Hz LCD's getting more popular now, there is no tearing even without vsync.

[gareththomasnz 13]

Permanent Acceleration Fix :

It seems that even without pointer precision disabled, the mouse under XP is still influenced by an acceleration

curve. This is especially noticeable in games. To completely remove mouse acceleration from XP, you will need to go

into the registry and adjust the SmoothmouseXYCurve values. Here is how its done.

1. Click Start button

2. Select Run

3. Type 'regedit' in the open textbox

4. Open the tree 'HKEY_CURRENT_USER', select control panel, then select mouse

5. Right clicking, modify the SmoothMouseXCurve and SmoothMouseYCurve hexidecimal values to the following:

SmoothMouseXCurve:

00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00

00,a0,00,00,00,00,00,00

00,40,01,00,00,00,00,00

00,80,02,00,00,00,00,00

00,00,05,00,00,00,00,00

SmoothMouseYCurve:

00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00

66,a6,02,00,00,00,00,00

cd,4c,05,00,00,00,00,00

a0,99,0a,00,00,00,00,00

38,33,15,00,00,00,00,00

If done correctly, you will notice you are holding a markedly more responsive mouse.

[rowdied 44]

I believe this down to VSYNC being forced on too. I cannot turn it off via ATI CAT as people know.

Tried to use ATI tools, but cant see an option to force VSYNC off. Anybody got a link/guide, how too please?

Thanks,

Chris.

Try going to

direct 3d>wait for vertical sync>off and

direct 3d>refresh rate overide>disabled

This is under winxp and works for me. I get from 40 -160fps when looking at the sky in game.

[kklownboy 43]

...winxp....

thats the -winxp flag?

[-TwK-Danny 0]

Try going to

direct 3d>wait for vertical sync>off and

direct 3d>refresh rate overide>disabled

This is under winxp and works for me. I get from 40 -160fps when looking at the sky in game.

As explained earlier, it only works in XP.

Microsoft didnt want this for Vista and now Win7 because the games themselves are supposed to have vsync options. But in BIS case, they decided to force it hence this thread.

I am on Win7 and setting vsync to "always off" does nothing in terms of framerate, its locked at 60 wherever i look.

[Fiya 10]

Danny;1392737']As explained earlier' date=' it only works in XP.

Microsoft didnt want this for Vista and now Win7 because the [u']games[/u] themselves are supposed to have vsync options. But in BIS case, they decided to force it hence this thread.

I am on Win7 and setting vsync to "always off" does nothing in terms of framerate, its locked at 60 wherever i look.

The whole "Cannot for Vsync off in Vista" thing is bullshit. (Or at least not applicable to all scenarios) Using Nvidia Control Panel, I effectively forced it off. I get up to 130 frames in the main screen, and I've had 70's in game. (I wish all the time!)

I don't know if you were referring to it in that way or not. But it can be forced off, and I have neve had mouse lag in this game. Even before any tweaks or changes. I didn't read through this whole thread so I don't know if that was brought up... Thought I would mention it.

i7 OCed

GTX 285 OC'ed

6GB DDR3 RAM OC'ed

Vista, Ultimate 64 bit SP2

[-TwK-Danny 0]

It is not bullshit, he was specifcally stating ATI graphicscard. It is well known Nvidia uses a special compatability mode to force Vsync off (and it works - just as you said). However, once again, this does not work on ATI cards.

What I stated in my post applies only to ATI + WinVista and Win7.

[Fiya 10]

Danny;1392809']It is not bullshit' date=' he was specifcally stating ATI graphicscard. It is well known Nvidia uses a special compatability mode to force Vsync off (and it works - just as you said). However, once again, this does not work on ATI cards.

What I stated in my post applies only to ATI + WinVista and Win7.[/quote']

I told you I had not read through the thread. I also said I do not know if it is applicable to all scenarios.

Aswell I said this. "I don't know if you were referring to it in that way or not."

I was just 'making sure' it was known. (The whole 'It is possible to force it off in Vista, through Nvidia' thing.)

[-TwK-Danny 0]

Yeah mate, i didnt mean anything i said in a bad way, just informing you how frustrating the situation is for us ATI owners ;)

[Greg 0]

Something else to try...

Reduce your mouse update frequency.

I reduce my Logitech mouse frequency from 500 updates per second to 125 (using SetPoint2) and the lag effect seemed to be reduced in game (at frame rate of ~30fps). I switched back and forth a few times to confirm this.

Perhaps BIS is doing some mouse smoothing on all those 'in between' update they can access, making the game extra laggy when high frequency updates are combined with low frame rates.

[-TwK-Danny 0]

I tried this, but 125Hz lagged as much as 500Hz and 1000Hz.

Why is ArmA2 the only game on the planet that force Vsync and tripplebuffering on? :(

1.03 didnt help, heres hoping 1.04 will...

[Leopardi 0]

Danny;1392809']It is not bullshit' date=' he was specifcally stating ATI graphicscard. It is well known Nvidia uses a special compatability mode to force Vsync off (and it works - just as you said). However, once again, this does not work on ATI cards.

What I stated in my post applies only to ATI + WinVista and Win7.[/quote']

Same thing happens on XP. It's a random bug in CCC, if you have it after formatting your PC then it's just bad luck. About 25% of installs it works normally from my experience.