Mouse Lag

[nem 10]

Improvements need making to your test video;

• Mouse mat not level, you can see the ArmA 2 manual under it.
  
• Drastic movement with mouse, different speeds need testing.
  
• Show how mouse reacts on your desktop.
  
• If USB is it running at full speed.
  
• Try the based DPI.
  

I have no mouse lag!

2.4GHz Quad

4 GB Ram

Nvidia 8800GT 512MB

ArmA 2 settings all maxed out to Very High and Max View

OH AND PLEASE ADD TO VOTE, NO PROBLEM AS THE MODERATOR MENTIONED...

Got not much else to do while we wait for 1.03 Patch, I will dig out my Cam and see what I can come up with.

I watch the Video again I see no latency, like I said from page 3 needs more testing as throwing the mouse around doesn't show anything.

Please give more information on what you mean by latency?

Isnt it evident what he means by latency?

I mean it takes so much time for his mousemovement to be pictured in the game that you can see it! (and not just feel it, which would be the case had it been like other games where you get mouselag caused by low framerate)

Its not skipping frames, so your DPI suggestion isnt needed. (or else i wouldnt have this problem)

USB running at 1.1 or 2.0 wont affect mouse like this, it has never done this to me in the past (with usb 1.1, im running usb 2.0 now as everyone else)

Isnt it rather stupid to suggest filming desktop? I mean, have you seen ANYONE with that kind of lag in windows unless somethings hanging etc?

As for the speed, well, when you do it fast like that its easy to demonstrate on cam. If you do it slowly you wont be able to see it as clearly as feeling it.

This is also obvious.

Mousemat not level. Well ok. If it was skipping i would be with you on this one, but you see the video and you clearly see that its LAG and not something caused by the mouse or the pad.

Bah, i just dont see why this is anything to discuss , cos it isnt..

Its something for Bohemia to FIX. Bickering about it here wont fix it.

And having people like you critizing us for showing how it is wont fix it either.

Now if anyone have something serious they want us/me to test out and report feedback on then i will be glad to comply. Hell i would be thrilled.

But as it stands, everything ive tried has yielded nothing.

Ive been an avid gamer for far too long, ive played most popular games there is, and a TON of not so popular ones.

Im an FPS fanatic to the bone. And this behaviour of the mouse is just wrong.

The only other times ive encountered this behaviour is in games where i have had VERY low FPS. And i dont have that in ArmA (except in obvious places, towns etc). And the mouselag is 100% persistent.

If i had more knowledge i would gladly throw possible casues in here, but my theories im not able to back up with anything so its a waste of time.

(Look, im sorry if i come across as a grumpy bastard, but im sick of this. Its ruining my play, and i really want to play this damn game.)

[HOPEnSPIRIT 10]

I'll watch it again but I honestly don't see any lag, thats why I asked for more information to make sure were on the same subject.

[tophe 69]

This issue is added to the Community Issue Tracker. Head over there and vote for it.

http://dev-heaven.net/projects/cis/issues

[Bulldogs 10]

hmm, you mean everyone's been complaining about this for weeks but no one bothered adding it to the comunity tracker?

[Leopardi 0]

hmm, you mean everyone's been complaining about this for weeks but no one bothered adding it to the comunity tracker?

How can you even add stuff there? And how can you vote?

Edited July 26, 2009 by Leopardi

[axure 10]

hmm, you mean everyone's been complaining about this for weeks but no one bothered adding it to the comunity tracker?

Hardly anone here is aware of something like "community tracker". Also - this issue has been reported by so many people that there's really no excuse for BIS for not noticing it and not responding to the community.

I would also like to remind everyone that this thread is merely a continuation of a bigger thread that has gathered 29 pages!!! http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=74085&page=29

Now add to this the fact that some schmuck degraded this issue in the tracker from urgent to normal.

I think BIS really doesn't give a damn.

[Leopardi 0]

Why is the priority in bugtracker changed from Urgent to Normal? It should be Immediate, it's gamebreaking.

[Mudkip 0]

I get noticeable mouse lag when visibility is set very high.

[Greg 0]

Why is the priority in bugtracker changed from Urgent to Normal? It should be Immediate, it's gamebreaking.

I have to agree. Mouse lag, and general poor mouse handling is the main reason I stopped playing OFP and didn't buy ARMA. I was really hoping ARMA 2 would handle well but it doesn't. All other FPS games handle beautifully.

Edit: I notice some people say OFP had great mouse handling, but for me it didn't. It was not 'laggy' as much as did not handle different mice well with speed and acceleration. I actually plugged two different mice in at the same time and each had very different control smoothness. But I repeat this is general mouse handling, not specifically lag.

Edited July 26, 2009 by Greg

[mr.g-c 6]

Direct-Link to the issue is:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/3081

@leopardi:

Afaik the "priority" setting does not apply (yet?) on the dev-heaven bugtracker.

At least thats what Kju always has written when people have set it there.

I have to agree. Mouse lag, and general poor mouse handling is the main reason I stopped playing OFP and didn't buy ARMA

Interesting, i never had any mouse lag in OFP though. For me it felt there always very quick and responsive. The overall lagginess of the series clearly started for me with Arma1.

[-TwK-Danny 0]

hi guys, like most of you guys, i suffer from mouselag aswell. For me, mouselag is the biggest gamebreaking problem for any game. And the lag in ArmA2 is really bad and kills the game.

First specs;

HD4890 1GB

AMD X2 4400+

4GB RAM

My mouse is the lachesis, running at 1000Hz (1ms lag, compared to normal 8ms on other mice). I tried 500Hz and default 125Hz only to notice slightly more lag.

As we have concluded already, specs has nothing to do with the mouselag, its game design. The only way to fix the mouselag is for BiS to actually fix it by enabling two options ingame.

The mouselag comes from the forcing enabled vsync aswell as tripple buffering in the game, by BiS themselves. Its what causes everyone to have mouselag, nothing else. BiS thought they were wise to eliminate screen tearing, but that is never wise at the expense of mouselag in a FPS. Nor should they take the liberty of deciding stuff for us. Valve has, for left 4 dead, enabled both ways - vsync off, or if you want, in options, you can enable both vsync and tripplebuffer. Thats what BiS should do aswell.

When i spawn myself in the editor i run at 60 fps capped (due to vsync), and i still have massive amounts of mouselag (just like in the video posted by OP) - so fps does not matter.

If you have any openGL game (halflife1?) you can try this yourself. Start the game and move the mouse abit. Then go to your GPU-controlpanel and force both vsync and tripplebuffering ON. Youll notice even in old games such as half-life 1, with 100fps, that the mouselag is unbearable with those two options forced on.

[Leopardi 0]

Direct-Link to the issue is:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/3081

Interesting, i never had any mouse lag in OFP though. For me it felt there always very quick and responsive. The overall lagginess of the series clearly started for me with Arma1.

OFP only had mouse lag at very low FPS's with ironsights on, because in sight mode there was mouse smoothing. ARMA&ARMA II has like triple the smoothing on both sight¬ sighted modes of what OFP had with sights on.

Danny, it is possible to force vsync off, but not triple buffering. So the cause is both mouse smoothing&triple buffering that are forced on for everyone, which COULD be easily fixed but BIS DON'T CARE.

It's so frustrating. why can't they just fix it? Just add the options for VSYNC,Triple buffering, and mouse smoothing?

Edited July 26, 2009 by Leopardi

[-TwK-Danny 0]

ATi owners cannot disable Vsync. Force Vsync off does nothing in our control panels. People say its possible with thirdparty control-panels and enabling some tweaks for vsync, but why should i have to go through that when a game should have the option instead?

And yes i agree, mousesmoothing, tripplebuffering and Vsync MUST be optional to use, its rather sad to see a game released in this state.

PS. Operation Flashpoint had other issues with mouse aswell. For me it could not detect small mouse movements (like bioshock pre patch). You could take your mouse from one side of the mousemat to the other without the game noticing any movement.

[Bulldogs 10]

I think it was degraded based on the video. The user who made the video showed that the mouse lag nearly entirely vanished when they reduced their view distance showing it to be a performance based issue which go's to hardware.

That said, I think the mouse lag I saw in the video is different to a lot of the mouse lag people have been talking about so I think we're dealing with 2 different types of mouse lag.

The first being the one in the video which seems performance based.

The other being the one I can produce under Windows XP by doing the opposite of all the anti-lag tweaks which doesn't seem like mouse lag but more like it seems as if the character is carrying a very heavy weight while trying to move the gun, and with this momentum kicks in making it so when you dash your cursor to the right or left the gun go's past where you aimed it. This is based on internal mouse smoothing that can't be disabled.

[Leopardi 0]

The momentum is then like your aiming with a 50kg tube which is not realistic at all - it's a bug.

[tophe 69]

The community tracker issue only has 4 votes...

[axure 10]

It doesn't matter how many votes the tracker has. Especially when it has such a crappy interface that I can't figure out (within reasonable time, ie. 10s) how do I vote.

What matters is how many pages this issue has generated on this forums. And that number is 36 pages. If BIS ignores that - as it does - they do not deserve our money and we should wait for OFP2. In the mean time we ought to make sure that no-one buys this buggy game before testing the demo on one's computer.

[Master gamawa 0]

I don't have mouse lag at all. I watched the video and wow! That sucks for you guys! :(

My mouse is as precise as possible. The only thing I have noticed is the acceleration effect when I move the mouse fast enough which feels very natural.

[Bulldogs 10]

As I mentioned, there seems to be two different mouse problems.

I think we need a new poll to check which problems people are suffering from. The options should be

1) I suffer Mouse accelleration/smoothing problem (moving the mouse feels heavy, move it fast and it gos too far)

2) I suffer mouse lag/delay (moving the mouse doesn't respond for 1-2 seconds) but lowering the video settings reduces the problem

3) I suffer mouse lag/delay, and lowering the video settings doesn't reduce the problem

4) I have none of the above issues.

I'm tired and not very operable right now so someone else can start the poll.

[CrazyAviator 10]

I too have noticed mouse lag but no where near the OP's video. Actually my mouse lag looks more like the end of his video when he changes some options. I dont know how to explain it, but the aiming in this game just feels spongy - not solid and tight like a FPS (Call of Duty ex) should feel.

[50.cal 10]

I didn't see this thread at the time I've opened mine... anyway I even thought it was a game feature to be that exaggerated.

Well...same problem here. Seems like smoothing/acceleration problem.

[-TwK-Danny 0]

I just do not understand BiS sometimes. This game is the most demanding game on the planet - who is the idiot who came up with forcing vsync and tripplebuffering ON? Disabling both options would improve performance, reduce video memory usage AND give us a functional mouse. Very much needed when it comes to demanding games.

Do you have any idea what would happen if Crytek had forced Vsync in Crysis? People always say "Crysis handles low fps well" and that its playable even with fps around 20-25. This is simply because the mouse is 100% responsive.

In ArmA2 I suffer with mouselag even when im running around with 60fps (wich, again, is max due to the vsync). This is unacceptable! So why arent BiS responding to us? Dwarden? Someone?

As for mouseacceleration and mousesmoothing.. if those two are actually enabling in the game then i can promise you that BiS do not have a single gamer in their crew.

[tophe 69]

So freaking annoying...

I just finished building a new computer. Upgraded from a ADMX2 6000+ to a Intel Q9550.

Finally the game turned from pretty bad framerates to fully playable. Looks nice...

But then all of a sudden the mouse lag kicks in. Never had that on my lower end machine and now it's completely killing the game. I have done all the fixes there are (setting gfx, force vsync off, fram buffer etc. etc.) but the lag makes the game unplayable. The only thing I can do is stay far behind and snipe. Fast action is now out of the question...

So I got myself a nice little walking simulator... Looks great but doesn't play.

I just hope BIS will fix this in the next patch. It just killed the game for me... So sad when you finally gets it running smooth the controls makes it completely unplayable.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Tophe

[Leopardi 0]

I have a bad feeling that the situation will be the same a year from now on, BIS doesn't care about losing customers.

[Greg 0]

Here's my attempt at reducing mouse lag. It has reduced it a lot...

1) Disable vsync in nVidia control panel for arma2.exe.

2) Configure logitech mouse for no acceleration while playing arma2.exe.

3) Drop game detail to achieve an average 30fps.

4) In nVidia control panel, set maximum pre-rendered frames to 1.

Lag is all but gone. Controls still feel a little off as the frame rate fluctuates so much. Slower mouse moves are still helpful for bike riding, swimming and free-look.