Engage v Engage at will?

[stun 5]

Can anyone tell me what the difference is between "engage at will" and "engage" in the engage menu (3)?

[dayglow 2]

If I remember from OFP days engage at will means they will break rank and actively search for the enemy while engage means they will fire at targets while staying in formation.

[stun 5]

Yeah, that's what I thought, but in Arma 2 they seem to break formation when Engage is used in the same way that they do with engage at will. Strangely I can't find any documentation on the BI wiki that explains "engage", they all seem to concentrate on "engage at will".

[Yahiko 0]

Engage probably means "break rank for that one particular target you've got in mind, then return to formation" while Engage at will is "continuously break rank to engage any and all targets" is my guess.

[Belier13 0]

Engage : They will break formation to engage target they are assigned

At will : They will choose a target on their own and engage it

This is only a supposition. Which I believe to be correct.

[stun 5]

I just did a quick test. I set an enemy squad to walk behind cover with a move waypoint and set never fire. I then tested Engage and Engage at will without specifying a target. My unit didn't engage with either command.I then repeated the test and specified a target. My unit engaged the target and then returned to formation with the engage and engage at will commands. Arma 2 seems to require that you nominate a target for both engage and engage at will to work and as soon as the target is destroyed the unit returns to formation. It appears to me that units won't choose their own targets with the engage at will order in Arma 2.

I just repeated a similar test with Arma. My unit wouldn't select its own target with engage at will in A1 either. It stayed in formation until I manually selected a target.

Edited July 6, 2009 by stun

[An Fiach 10]

what is your awareness set to? (stealth, danger,aware) Does changing this have an effect on their behavior?

[stun 5]

behaviour was set to aware for the test.

Edited July 6, 2009 by stun

[erazor 10]

hmm... always wondered what the diff was too...

99% of the time i have my squad set to "engage at will" and i never assign any targets (to cumbersome, hence why i like engage at will). They are quite effective at picking targets & shooting. They just have to be 'aware' of the target. In the test done by stun it could just be that the AI has not seen, and thus is not aware, of the target. Perhaps if you get out your bino's and 'right click' on the target to call it out the AI will respond differently.

[frederf 0]

Engage and Engage at Will have to do with movement.

Target has to do with aiming.

Hold/Open Fire has to do with shooting.

AI will pick targets and shoot at them just fine without ever engaging.

[-=seany=- 5]

what is your awareness set to? (stealth, danger,aware) Does changing this have an effect on their behavior?

At Ease: This is good for having the AI keep up with you when trying to move quickly. Also, always set AI who are driving to At Ease and they will follow the road and not be so stupid :).

Stealth: I don't use this much. I think AI will try to stay behind objects, not sure if it affects how they engage. I think they go prone also.

Danger: They tend to be more "freaked out"; going prone, scanning around them etc. They also drive erratically in this mode, in a zig zag pattern, and will go cross country to get to a destination.

Aware: Default stance. They wont put their weapon down, like in At Ease. They stay standing, not sure how it affects their ROE.

This is what I have noted from noted from Arma1 and OFP, but I doubt it's that different in Arma2. I haven't been playing long enough to notice yet.

One other handy radio command some of you might find useful when commanding AI is the Advance command. It's kind of obvious what it does but hard know when you might use it. Well, I use it for making the AI keep up with me when moving around, so I don't get as many "Where Are you?"'s. When set to this stance they will move ahead of you by about 50 meters. Great meat shields too. :D

Oh, one more final tip for anyone new to Arma; if you are leading a squad of infantry and come across enemy, its best to let the AI do most of the killing while you stay safe. The enemy AI squads will pick you out as the squad leader and they will try to kill you as a priority. The works vice versa, if you kill the squad leader of an enemy AI squad they will become noticeably less organized and easier to kill. I always thought this was a neat feature.

Edited July 7, 2009 by -=seany=-

[richardg 10]

The only thing that bugs me about this game is how little it is documented. Basic crap like this should be explained in the manual, instead of having to hunt for it online somewhere.

[-=seany=- 5]

The only thing that bugs me about this game is how little it is documented. Basic crap like this should be explained in the manual, instead of having to hunt for it online somewhere.

Ahh that's part of the charm :) I'm playing BIS games for years now and I still discover new things.

[An Fiach 10]

At Ease: This is good for having the AI keep up with you when trying to move quickly. Also, always set AI who are driving to At Ease and they will follow the road and not be so stupid :).

Stealth: I don't use this much. I think AI will try to stay behind objects, not sure if it affects how they engage. I think they go prone also.

Danger: They tend to be more "freaked out"; going prone, scanning around them etc. They also drive erratically in this mode, in a zig zag pattern, and will go cross country to get to a destination.

Aware: Default stance. They wont put their weapon down, like in At Ease. They stay standing, not sure how it affects their ROE.

This is what I have noted from noted from Arma1 and OFP, but I doubt it's that different in Arma2. I haven't been playing long enough to notice yet.

One other handy radio command some of you might find useful when commanding AI is the Advance command. It's kind of obvious what it does but hard know when you might use it. Well, I use it for making the AI keep up with me when moving around, so I don't get as many "Where Are you?"'s. When set to this stance they will move ahead of you by about 50 meters. Great meat shields too. :D

Oh, one more final tip for anyone new to Arma; if you are leading a squad of infantry and come across enemy, its best to let the AI do most of the killing while you stay safe. The enemy AI squads will pick you out as the squad leader and they will try to kill you as a priority. The works vice versa, if you kill the squad leader of an enemy AI squad they will become noticeably less organized and easier to kill. I always thought this was a neat feature.

That's a nice reply and appreciated but my question was directed at the guy doing the testing to see if there was any efect on his outcome.

[nkenny 1051]

Engage : They will break formation to engage target they are assigned

At will : They will choose a target on their own and engage it

This is only a supposition. Which I believe to be correct.

You are mistaken. The engage and engage at will commands tell the AI it is okay to ignore all cover and incoming enemy fire. He will then proceed to run (like a headless chicken) in the assumed direction of the enemy.

If the target happens to be an armored vehicle the AI is encourage to do the "Change between AT and Rifle Dance"

I am of course applying sarcasm.

What -=seany=- says is also excellent advice. Sometimes I set my squad to DANGER then force fully half of them to ADVANCE. This creates a very effective leap-frogging effect.

-K

[bhaz 0]

Basically, engage means they will leave the formation in order to pursue an enemy.

Engage only works when having manually set a target, they will pursue the target that was given, then return to the formation.

Engage at will allows them to choose their own targets and engage.

Disengage cancels the effect of either engage command, causing them to return to formation (but will still fire unless ordered.)

(Same applies for Fire / Open Fire. Which means "Only fire at given target" and "Fire at any target" respectively. Note that Fire only becomes obvious when set to hold fire, otherwise they'll continue shooting anyway.)

Uses?

I mostly only use the fire command for ambushing. Ie.: you can set 3 AT units to target 3 different vehicles, they will announce when they're within firing range with "Ready to fire", and will not fire until ordered.

Edited July 7, 2009 by bhaz
extra info

[fabrizio_t 58]

There's plenty of info in the WIKI, at least related to ARMA (1).

I think most of these game mechanics still apply to ARMA 2.

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Mission_Editor

See BEHAVIOUR and COMBAT MODE paragraphs for example ...

Then you will eventually rant for lack of documentation ;)

Edited July 7, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[stun 5]

@erazor

Yes the AI were aware of the targets. I manually "spotted" and "called them".

@bhaz

The issue seems to be that the units in my squad won't move out and engage the enemy if I haven't targeted the enemy when "Engage at will" has been used.

@fabrizio_T

I have checked out the mission editor info and other stuff on the wiki. The problem is the mission editor stuff relates to settings for waypoints and scripting (and only applies to AI leaders), but doesn't cover in game settings for the engage (number 3 key) menu. The wiki section relating to the arma manual neglects to mention "engage" and only discusses "engage at will".

@anfiach

I tested using behaviours of aware and combat. It didn't seem to make any difference.

Edited July 7, 2009 by stun

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Anyone notice Disengage not functioning (or at least not obviously)? I could be mistaken but since OFP I could have sworn you could issue a Disengage command to cancel an Engage or Engage at Will command, now it seems to do nothing (not able to issue it even).

[cullBo 10]

hmm... always wondered what the diff was too...

99% of the time i have my squad set to "engage at will" and i never assign any targets (to cumbersome, hence why i like engage at will). They are quite effective at picking targets & shooting. They just have to be 'aware' of the target. In the test done by stun it could just be that the AI has not seen, and thus is not aware, of the target. Perhaps if you get out your bino's and 'right click' on the target to call it out the AI will respond differently.

bit offtopic but I was wondering about this "right click" to spot/report stuff. I remember this working fine in OFP but in Arma2 it seems to randomly work or not. Also when trying to report a target is dead sometimes I get the "one less" highlighted in my command menu but otherwise I have to scroll through the menu :s seems kind of awkward when you're in combat. Any tips would be appreciated :D

Edited July 7, 2009 by cullBo

[fabrizio_t 58]

@erazor

Yes the AI were aware of the targets. I manually "spotted" and "called them".

@bhaz

The issue seems to be that the units in my squad won't move out and engage the enemy if I haven't targeted the enemy when "Engage at will" has been used.

@fabrizio_T

I have checked out the mission editor info and other stuff on the wiki. The problem is the mission editor stuff relates to settings for waypoints and scripting (and only applies to AI leaders), but doesn't cover in game settings for the engage (number 3 key) menu. The wiki section relating to the arma manual neglects to mention "engage" and only discusses "engage at will".

@anfiach

I tested using behaviours of aware and combat. It didn't seem to make any difference.

"engage" = combatMode "yellow" = "Open Fire", AFAIK, may be wrong.

Edited July 7, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[stun 5]

@fabrizio_T

There is an "engage" and "open fire" in the engage menu. It would be strange if they both did the same thing.

[frederf 0]

Engage and Engage at Will have to do with movement.

Target has to do with aiming.

Hold/Open Fire has to do with shooting.

What I've said is true. If you have Hold Fire, Engage at Will the AI will maneuver on the enemy out of formation to a firing location but not fire. Open Fire and Not Engage will let them shoot but they will not maneuver on the enemy out of formation.

Hold Fire in most cases can be lifted based on the AI's decision that it really needs to defend itself. The only exception is Mode Blue which can only be applied via script.

The Combat Mode Blue, Green, Yellow, Red, Pink, Whatever are special editor-level statuses that are combinations of Engagement State and Hold Fire State.

Blue = Hold Fire, Not Engage... also they will never change from this state by their own will.

Green = Same as Blue but they will change of their own will.

White = Hold Fire, Engage at Will

Yellow = Open Fire

Red = Open Fire, Engage at Will

[stun 5]

Has anyone actually managed to get their AI squad members to move out of formation with "engage at will" without first assinging them a target?

I was always under the impression in ofp and A1 that "Engage at will" ordered your units to use their inititive to select their own targets and then to position themselves to engage these targets. From testing in A2 this does not appear to be the case.

Edited July 8, 2009 by stun

[synch_c 10]

Anyone notice Disengage not functioning (or at least not obviously)? I could be mistaken but since OFP I could have sworn you could issue a Disengage command to cancel an Engage or Engage at Will command, now it seems to do nothing (not able to issue it even).

Yeah I've had the same experience. DISENGAGE seems to be broken even when combined with a RTF. I had to give a move order to get the guy to come back. Thinking about it, maybe it might work with a NO TARGET.