Is the AI really that smart ..or...

[BeerHunter 0]

are players not really all the bright? ;)

I've watched a few videos (still waiting for the game to arrive) about the AI and a few things that stand out are:

The standard FPS playing methods . Majority go prone then end up turning their entire bodies as they scan for targets as in CoD/Bf2 etc. All this movement generates noise and movement which can be easily spotted.

ArmA gives you "free look" to emulate looking around with your head only and a "float zone" that emulates slight offsets in your aiming without having to shift your entire body. Quit a few don't seem to be using them.

Tactical Positioning. Quit a few seem to be crawling across relatively open ground (using grass/bushes as cover instead of concealment) then shooting at the first thing they see without knowing the enemies strength , weakness. Use concealment to get to COVER then binoculars (if you have them) to spot all that you can before you fire the first shot. That way you reduce the likelihood of being nailed by someone you didn't see and you should know where the returning fire will be coming from.

I'm not saying the AI aren't without their faults (ie : so called super hearing) but those that can apparently see you from behind a wall just MIGHT be taking fire orders from a spotter (a bot that knows where you are from your movement/firing).

I recall in ArmA1 a mission to sneak into the camp and destroy the armor. Was impossible until someone mentioned the free look instead of shifting your entire body. I was then able to sneak past the guards and compete the assignment...well almost..I took over a tank and proceeded to annihilate the entire compound. :D

[walker 0]

Hi BeerHunter

I remember writing the walk-through on that one because so many had problems with it.

I remember eventually completing it without them even knowing I had been there.

Kind Regards walker

Edited July 4, 2009 by walker

[Cellus 10]

Are you really insulting people regarding their opinions on a subject within a game you're yet to play?

[kremator 1064]

No .... it's true. Some people AREN'T that bright.

[BeerHunter 0]

Are you really insulting people regarding their opinions on a subject within a game you're yet to play?

Yep! :p

Really though...I'm not insulting anyone (notice the smilie?) , simply pointing out observations from all the UTube videos posted about the AI.

Oh and BTW - do have the demo so have played it a bit. As I said too , the AI aren't without their faults but for the most part don't notice you until you do something to draw their attention then you better have COVER and not CONCEALMENT...and MOVE.

[kocrachon 2]

I recently recruited a new member into my squad.. We picked him as part of our Americas Army 3 division but after hearing me and a couple of other members play ArmA 2 for a while he decided to buy it to get in on the action.

Well, while playing domination he kept dying every 5 seconds after being in the enemy territory. He was either shot by a tanks commander gun, or he was shot by an enemy sniper. He said the AI was way too good and could see a mile away and was too powerful and blah blah blah.

On the other hand I am running around with M4A1 SD and crawling around in town, shooting the AI while crawling up to the radio tower, destroying it, grabing an RPG and taking out a nearby tank while one of my other clan members built an MG nest and was using that while our sniper also used that cover as a place to snipe from.

Difference? He was running around, standing, and kneeling. He was trying attention to himself by not taking cover and using no form of concealment. Its not that the AI was too smart, he was just playing too dumb.

Anyone whos been in the military in an actual war zone will tell you, the last thing you do is fire with out cover... Hell, Anyone with COMMON SENSE knows that...

[Dallas 9]

I think the AI is good, some players make it look even better.

[Brainmagnet 10]

Is it just me or has it become fashionable to declare that people are stupid for any reason? People have different socio-economic backgrounds, not everyone has a father/mother that was an electrical engineer. Not eveyone has the same level of experience ( i.e. some people are new to certain things). Aren't there more constructive ways of going about this, or do we have to insult others? I'm wondering if the aim of the parent post was to insult or to educate, or perhaps both, or just to vent frustration? The purpose of my post is to vent my frustration with posts like the aforementioned. I personally like Walker's approach, write a tutorial about it. Best type of tutorial is the one that teaches people how to fish instead of fishing for them (borrowing from a famous pronoun), but some people will always want to do things the easy way and we can't always be pissed at them for doing so because they might have a good excuse or a good reason for doing so. Overall I think it's better to learn why before calling people stupid (kind of like finding cover and using your binoculars before opening fire). If someone is helplessly stupid isn't there even less of a reason to call them stupid? Because in that case they already know they are stupid, or they are too stupid to realize. In conclusion I think it's better to avoid calling someone stupid in any circumstance.

[kocrachon 2]

Is it just me or has it become fashionable to declare that people are stupid for any reason? People have different socio-economic backgrounds, not everyone has a father/mother that was an electrical engineer. Not eveyone has the same level of experience ( i.e. some people are new to certain things). Aren't there more constructive ways of going about this, or do we have to insult others? I'm wondering if the aim of the parent post was to insult or to educate, or perhaps both, or just to vent frustration? The purpose of my post is to vent my frustration with posts like the aforementioned. I personally like Walker's approach, write a tutorial about it. Best type of tutorial is the one that teaches people how to fish instead of fishing for them (borrowing from a famous pronoun), but some people will always want to do things the easy way and we can't always be pissed at them for doing so because they might have a good excuse or a good reason for doing so. Overall I think it's better to learn why before calling people stupid (kind of like finding cover and using your binoculars before opening fire). If someone is helplessly stupid isn't there even less of a reason to call them stupid? Because in that case they already know they are stupid, or they are too stupid to realize. In conclusion I think it's better to avoid calling someone stupid in any circumstance.

Wow there cowboy, step off of that high horse there...

[11aTony 0]

Lol, every day new thread about same thing.

[Brainmagnet 10]

I never said I don't call other people stupid. I should have added a disclaimer. I don't profess to have any moral high ground and I'm sorry if the tone of my post was pretentious. I was only venting my own frustration and trying to get people to look at the issue in another light. I don't consider myself morally superior to anyone. Once again I'm sorry for causing offense.

[sic-disaster 311]

Is it just me or has it become fashionable to declare that people are stupid for any reason? People have different socio-economic backgrounds, not everyone has a father/mother that was an electrical engineer. Not eveyone has the same level of experience ( i.e. some people are new to certain things). Aren't there more constructive ways of going about this, or do we have to insult others? I'm wondering if the aim of the parent post was to insult or to educate, or perhaps both, or just to vent frustration? The purpose of my post is to vent my frustration with posts like the aforementioned. I personally like Walker's approach, write a tutorial about it. Best type of tutorial is the one that teaches people how to fish instead of fishing for them (borrowing from a famous pronoun), but some people will always want to do things the easy way and we can't always be pissed at them for doing so because they might have a good excuse or a good reason for doing so. Overall I think it's better to learn why before calling people stupid (kind of like finding cover and using your binoculars before opening fire). If someone is helplessly stupid isn't there even less of a reason to call them stupid? Because in that case they already know they are stupid, or they are too stupid to realize. In conclusion I think it's better to avoid calling someone stupid in any circumstance.

Wall of text crits you for 1,008532 HP.

You die.

[walker 0]

Hi all

The problem is that all those games they have played before have negatively trained them. Why do you think the Real Virtuality became the de facto NATO training simulation over all the other engines available?

The COD/Vanila BF/Unreal /CS/ engines all teach you to stand in the middle of the road blasting away full auto and expect to survive. Those games are all about stroking the emprisoned players ego, so they will buy the next iteration of the game. You cannot keep killing them and expect them to come back is the decider. For those pulishers it is all about short term sales, not long term game play.

As many of us have frequently pointed out all of BIS's OFP/ArmA I/ArmA II veterans have learned to use cover and concealment, and work in teams, and to make the shot count. The Real Virtuality engine does not believe in stroking your ego. Get it wrong in ArmA II and the game kicks your teeth in.

My first month in BIS's OFP was mostly spent dying; heck I still do it now! Then I learned to crawl when in contact and use cover and hide.

I can still remember that time in the demo I spent an hour and a half not even daring to turn my head and desperate for a pee hiding in a bush with just a rifle while an angry BMP with its turret spinning around like a demented Dalek squeaked and crashed its way around me playing squash the bush trying to find the exact bush I was in via the process of elimination.

Right he is not under that bush. What about this one? Nope. What about this one? Nope... and on and on. At times his treads span past me inches from my face at others I could hear those squealing grating tracks roaring toward me making me think damn he has found me that's it, I am dead, back to the damn start again; only for him to whizz by my shoulder and spin around on another innocent bush, Nope not that one. What about that one? and off he squeaked to squash yet another innocent bush.

Eventually I thought he is far enough away squashing that bush behind me, I jumped up and ran with the spot between my shoulder blades itching as I waited for that terminal bust of fire, but I made it to a house and just made it to my upstairs toilet in reality.

I then found me an RPG on a body and killed that damn Bush crusher, I killed him; dead dead, dead, but I still have the dreams...

Nowadays I hunt T90s with a SMAW and a couple of guys to cover me. Heck I even sneak up to them in towns and plant a satchel on a 30 second counter next to them.

You learn in ArmA or you die, mostly to begin with you die.

Kind Regards walker

Edited July 4, 2009 by walker

[BeerHunter 0]

Jesus I never called anyone stupid. I was merely being sarcastic (as should have been apparent by the winkie).

I was merely pointing out that in quit a few of the videos I've watched (and from my own experiences in ArmA1 and some in 2) that the old FPS method of swinging the entire body to get a better viewing angle (rather than simply moving the head) is probably a major tip off to the AI , as is moving the entire body to line up the sights vs using the "floating" region available in ArmA.

Lots probably do this but newcomers may not know the significance of these features (especially against AI) and are frustrated by constantly being picked off apparently out of nowhere.

Also the AI aren't like bots in other games or the hordes in Rambo movies that can't hit the broadside of a barn. These guys are deadly so you have to be careful and don't expect to live long if you're lying prone in an open field engagement.

[The Kentucky Kid 0]

It's just a game, not real life :rolleyes:

[An Fiach 10]

Uhgg If I read one more post about Real Virtuality and NATO.....

SO true though, many don't use the head look feature. I find myself forgetting it is there because I don't have TrackIR and forget about the convenient activation key :P

[Brainmagnet 10]

Ok Beerhunter, it's true that you never called anyone stupid you only implied that some people may not be that bright by posing a question. I'm sorry for reading too much into it.

I'd also like to say brilliant post Walker, had a similar experience with a BMP on a domination map only problem was it was backed up by a T-90 I failed to spot.

I also hope that Bohemia Interactive starts supporting Free Track IR. Either way I'm looking into getting TrackIR working for this game b/c the numpad doesn't cut it.

[walker 0]

Either way I'm looking into getting TrackIR working for this game b/c the numpad doesn't cut it.

Hi Brainmagnet

Try the left [Alt] key ;)

Allthough a TrackIR as a present solves all problems :)

Kind Regards walker

Edited July 4, 2009 by walker

[Brainmagnet 10]

:cool: Thanks for the info Walker, I will definitely use left alt from now on for free look until I get TrackIR, I will probably use it more often now that you've given me a more convenient and effective alternative.