Team vs team?

[Mad-Dog 10]

Hi, I've been very disappointed to find no servers that allow for human vs human missions instead of human vs AI ones.

I read somewhere that CTI game mode is supposed to be for that. Someone explained that there are two human teams fighting for control over one area. Sounded great - but I joined a couple of those games and it was not what I expected at all. I became some kind of commander and I had to seemingly spend money and manage resources - I noticed all the other players were the same !? What's the point in that?

Perhaps I was expecting too much. I played Project Reality for a while and I was hoping that the multiplayer gameplay would be along similar lines in terms of the mission structure - but its not at all.

I dont want to play against AI because its not the same as coming up against real human opponents.

Are there no missions in this game that allow for the capture of towns or control points that are held by another human team? If so, what game type should I be looking out for? Currently all I see is coop games, I'm already bored with those and CTI which looks like some kind of strategy based yawn-fest.

[whisper 0]

the search function is your friend.

The same threads are all over this place. There is PvP, it's written all over the 10s others threads here dealing with the subject.

Sidenote: PR guys may be the most teamplay oriented players ever, from what they say, but they certainly lack some forum research skill there ;)

[Mad-Dog 10]

the search function is your friend.

The same threads are all over this place. There is PvP, it's written all over the 10s others threads here dealing with the subject.

Sidenote: PR guys may be the most teamplay oriented players ever, from what they say, but they certainly lack some forum research skill there ;)

Couldnt see any other posts asking the same questions as I did. Theres a couple talking about "pvp" but I dont know what that means so I thought that was something else. I did search but wasnt sure what search terms to use. I couldnt find a good description of the different game types and what I should be looking for. I saw a similar post to mine but noeone has actually answered that one with any decent info, just like you didnt answer mine.

Perhaps you could have expended your energy more usefully by actually being helpful and answering my questions, instead of criticising my searching skills. Its true, I'm not great at doing searches although I didnt expect some self admiring big head to jump on me and put me down for it. You didnt even link to any of the info I've asked about, so your response was utterly pointless. All it served was your own little ego trip, putting someone else down instead of being friendly or helpful to a new member.

[whisper 0]

I answered in all the other ones, after a while it gets rather on your nerves seeing yet again another post about yet again the same subject.

For once, I didn't answer straight away and pointed to the search function, with added smileys, meaning you shouldn't take that hard. ALL PR guy I see are gloating about how awesome teamplayers they are in PR, and how we ArmA players really stink in this department, but ALL PR guy make their own post one after the other....

Perhaps you can understand how at some point, seeing another one popping out is makign me cringe.

EDIT :

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=76098

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=77185

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=75960

simply in around the top 10 of this part of the forum

In these thread, you'll see words like C&H, UMPC and AAS.

Edited July 2, 2009 by whisper

[hund 0]

Right, the same questions are being asked again and again, Whisper does have a point on that one. I fear that people have no idea what Arma 2 is actually about, MP-wise. And I am very happy that we are getting some of our BF2 brethren to visit us over here, but they keep fumbling around the forums like blind men because no-one has bothered to actually explain to them what kind of game Arma really is.

The bottom line is that Arma should be viewed as a system and not as a game per se. You get out of it what you put into it. So for fans of a certain kind of gametype to actually be able to play, someone has to make missions that cater for that particular taste. There are no limits to what Arma 2 will give you, but you do have to put something into the machine before anything happens.

If you compare it to conventional games out there you will be disappointed. The downside of Arma is that it ships with a limited amount of content compared to many other titles. The upside is that over time, and through the efforts of the community, Arma will blow any other game out of the water, hands down, when speaking about content (except maybe The Sims, but those people are really crazy).

I think the problem arises because newcomers expect to find a finished product that they have little control over, and that just isn't the case.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Hund

[cjsoques 0]

I think the problem arises because newcomers expect to find a finished product that they have little control over, and that just isn't the case.

That's not it at all.

...the problem here is that the new guy (like me) did not understand some of the terminology to pull off a search. Give him a break. I love the ARMA community and there is no need to get angry when someone doesn't catch after their 2nd post.

He obivously didn't know that PvP meant player vs player and used the words team vs team instead since he had no idea what the search for. Searching for team vs team would probably bring back nothing useful to him.

In summary, lighten up guys.

[Mad-Dog 10]

I answered in all the other ones, after a while it gets rather on your nerves seeing yet again another post about yet again the same subject.

I wasnt aware that the forums were here just for you. If other posters get on your nerves I suggest you do the polite thing and ignore them. What might be the "same subject" to you isnt always the same for other people. Try to have some patience and understanding for new users.

For once, I didn't answer straight away and pointed to the search function, with added smileys, meaning you shouldn't take that hard.

An insult with smileys is still an insult.

ALL PR guy I see are gloating about how awesome teamplayers they are in PR, and how we ArmA players really stink in this department, but ALL PR guy make their own post one after the other....

Perhaps you can understand how at some point, seeing another one popping out is makign me cringe.

I'm sorry that you have a chip on your shoulder about PR players. I dont think that is any reason to be rude to me. I didnt make any such comments about ARMA players. If something makes you cringe, try moving on instead of feeling the need to dress someone down. You act like you are on some kind of power trip.

Please, do me a favour and leave my thread alone - I dont need your unhelpful attitude. Go be rude to someone else instead.

[whisper 0]

Erf...

I just explained why I reacted like that originally, then linked you to threads with info.

Threads listing what kind of PvP, TvT, you name it, maps you can expect to find online atm.

BTW, the smiley line was really not meant as an insult, the seemingly "PR guy automatic reaction" made me smile (ok,maybe strange humor ... ). The serious stuff was written before, ie "please use the search function"

[eem 1]

^^ - +1!!

Also, on the CTI front... It is PvP and PvE at the same time. If you really HAVE to always be shooting a human player, then put you and your squad on a mission into RED territory. You will for sure run into enemy human opponents if the server is full. The difference being they are also controlling AI the same you are so you may end up fighting human controlled AI as well as human squad leaders at the same time.

You have to understand that the way the system works can put sometimes 6-700 or more units on the battlefield at once. On most CTI servers, only 16-32 of those will actually be human players. But remember too that the AI is controlled by humans so a good squad leader will make it extremely difficult to even come close to them as they will be surrounded by well placed defensive postured soldiers.

I played enough BF2 on the console as part of xBELx - Behind Enemy Linez to where we were consistently ranked in the top 20 in the world. That style of play is not typically ArmA II's out of the box strength but I am sure there will be more human v human based missions in the coming days and months to cater for most playing styles... I'm thinking of doing a Search n Destroy game type similar to the CoD4 or SOCOM: Navy Seals console versions because those were always fun...especially being the last one left alive defending or placing the bomb knowing everyone is watching you.. :)

L8r,

eem

[swe 10]

I dont know what projecy reality is, but i strongly agree that team vs team is lacking in arma, and the arma veterans seems to put their spikes out like hedgehogs. From what i have learned so far is that arma 2 players generally likes to play with AI. Mostly they (generally) like playing humans vs AI or the mix that you just mentioned; a mix of players and AI in both teams (CTI).

It seems that, of some reason, no mather how strong the computer is, it cant host more than 20 ppl in arma. That is part of the explanation i think, in kombination with that the maps are huge.

[Inkompetent 0]

Heck, I actually hate CTI. If I want to play PvP I don't want human-controlled AI squads to screw me over (partially because I HATE controlling AI myself). It's just that at the moment there's a distinct lack of other PvP missions (played some good ones on ATOW though).

Can't make missions at the moment since I'm over 700km from my ArmA2, or I definitely would.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Inkompetent

[swe 10]

"especially being the last one left alive defending or placing the bomb knowing everyone is watching you"

That is what makes a good multiplayers game that is well suited for tournaments :)

[whisper 0]

"AAAAAH" (<- huge virtual cry here :D )

See what you started Mad Dog ? :) (I'm to blame too with my answers I guess)

There IS PvP in ArmA! There IS! I tell thee

Just less than CTI and Evo-like missions, for what reasons I don't know (well, probably because allready filled servers make more people connect - and wonder why A2 players prefer Coop ;) - and because the huge Coop maps played are easy, spawn, jump in chopper, run at objective, respawn, rince and repeat. Also because said missions last long making the player pool never run out due to restart)

Anyway, look for maps marked as "HOLD" as their type in the game list. Or CTF for that matter (Capture The Flag like can be seen in many other FPS)

Looks for maps named AAS

Look soon for maps named Berzerk

As for performance, servers can handle 30+. After that, at least mine struggles even with script-easy and no AI missions. I'm wondering why, as the server FPS oscillates between 50 (the max) and 30 calculated Frame Per Second, which is nothing close to problematic, and actual server processor is all but working at full power (only 1 core out of 4 is working at 50%... others are at like 5%), but we begin to get like spike. Very odd.

anyway, more than 20 is very possible

[eem 1]

).

It seems that, of some reason, no mather how strong the computer is, it cant host more than 20 ppl in arma. That is part of the explanation i think, in kombination with that the maps are huge.

You make several excellent points in your post...

I think especially the size of the map when it comes to striclty human v human gameplay. The best way to handle this is to create missions that focus play to specific areas of the map creating more of an "arena". The missions would turn into more like evrey other game out there...you know... 5-10 maps played over and over again with eveyone knowing exactly every single spawn point, every decent sniping position, etc... what would be need is a way to keep the human v human tight, constant, balanced, but also maintaining some level of dynamic evolving battlefield conditions that a larger map can give.

L8r,

eem

[hund 0]

...the problem here is that the new guy (like me) did not understand some of the terminology to pull off a search. Give him a break. I love the ARMA community and there is no need to get angry when someone doesn't catch after their 2nd post.

You must be talking about Whisper's response there, not mine. I have no problem with people posting the same questions 200 times over. The thing that worries me is that they have to in the first place.

The point I was trying to impart is that newcomers may be expecting something different from what they are getting, which in turn will lead to angry gamers. Now we can't have that, can we?

And to remain a little bit on topic here, it is quite possible to create gameplay styles like the ones you find in BF2 (I think some dudes are already hard at work on something like that). As for the player limitation you mention, I have never had any experience like that. Arma will quite happily cater for 64 players and more. Right now we run our games on a server from 2003, and that runs 20 people without a single hitch, might even run 30 or 40.

Now cease the budding flamewar, retards. :bounce3:

Edited July 2, 2009 by Hund

[Eclipse4349 0]

ARMA2 does have PvP, just not as many servers running PvP modes. Those modes include DM, TDM, CTF, Sector Control (havent tried it yet, but want to), etc. The server has the option to enable or disable AI controlled players in the game. I am hoping that once the game catches on more, and you start seeing a big increase in online activity, that these modes and server settings will be used more. Perhaps when the retail release hits the US (July 7th. Thank you Steam for releasing on June 26th!).

I have hosted DM and CTF games, and made some maps in the Wizard, for me and some buddies. I'm not sure if human players replace AI players when they join, or if they are added in. If they are added in, I would personally turn off AI slots, so that the game would then be mostly or all human players. It really just depends on the mission/gametype being played and the server settings. Hosting is really easy, and a "new" map can be made in under a minute, unless you want to add objects like weapon crates or vehicles to the stock DM, TDM, or CTF template. Then it takes a little longer, but, once you have done it, it is very quick and easy.

What would be really helpful also would be to have server filters for the AI settings and such.

[{S8G}Rub!c0n 10]

try playing on the HOLD servers.They are very fun and seem to be what kinda game you are lookin for man.Thats about the only style ill play because it is human vs human.Thats the only way to play IMHO. But opinions are like...well you know. To each his own!

[marius00 0]

I hope there is is more variety when the game is launched everywhere. Seeing 9/10 coop servers is frustrating. Might throw some cash in to setup my own server if this continues.

[{S8G}Rub!c0n 10]

I hope there is is more variety when the game is launched everywhere. Seeing 9/10 coop servers is frustrating. Might throw some cash in to setup my own server if this continues.

x2..........