Artillery - make the player adjust fire.

[Helmut_AUT 0]

Another suggestion for BIS to implement into their Arty Logic - or maybe for some modders?

Right now, the Arty is always 100% accurate. You can give it any map point, or point the binocs at a specific house, and it will always 100% hit that house (with some random spread).

The fire mission to "adjust fire" seems more like a gadget than actually needed, since you just don't have anything to adjust.

Wouldn't it be nice if Arty was less precise at the beginning, and the player then had to call in corrections? It could be easily done by just randomly shifting the player-set aimpoint a 100m or 200 around, and then have the player make up for that random shift by judging the first one or two rounds to land.

As it is, it's simple too easy to get massive fire support perfectly on the spot. You don't even need to have LOS to your target, since you can just point at the map and there you go.

[MortenL 10]

Artillery does spread quite a bit, depending on what kind of artillery you're using.

I agree that the adjust fire is unneeded as a thing to adjust fire, but it is pretty good when you need a few(2) artillery shells to suppress. (instead of all of it)

If you want some wild artillery use mortars, they have quite a spread to them depending on their range.

(P.S: It is seldom that i get a direct hit with the artillery, usually it is just the massive area damage that will take down the building, rather than a direct hit on the roof.)

[Helmut_AUT 0]

I admit I haven't tried a lot with Mortars yet, but the MLRS is just too damn powerful. And the M119 is very precise.

It would be nice to have more random center of fire, adjustable by player, AND the option to select spread and number of shots. That would enable some semi-authentic calls for fire.

Combat Mission: Shock Force has a nice and simple interface that still enables a very high and realistic control over fire. Doesn't have to go quite that far in A2 (no line vs. point targets...) but some more parameters would be nice.

[headspace 0]

There is a module function detailed in the biki called BIS_ARTY_F_SetDispersion that allows you to set how accurate or inaccurate you want the artillery to be.

There is also a way (several ways, actually) to script yourself a sheaf and even create a process to bracket a target if you want to get that fancy. I would appreciate it, though, if this were brought up in the Artillery Module thread in Editing.

There is a huge gap between players who just want to call in an Artillery strike vs. players who want to get extremely detailed and authentic with Artillery. That is why the Artillery Module provides open ended functions for you to play with.

MLRS is just too damn powerful

If it wasn't, it wouldn't be doing its job.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Headspace

[galzohar 31]

There is one major problem here: IRL artillery is accurate in the terms of getting 2 rounds to land close together, but it's hard to make the first round land where you want. If you just give artillery random spread, adjusting will obviously not help as the next shot will have the same random spread as the first. If you give them a fixed offset based on the parameters of the firing mission (from where to where you're firing) then people will just learn how to compensate for it in given missions and again will get first round hits. There needs to be some kind of modeling of artillery missing that will be realistically unpredictable, yet remain consistent within at least the same fire mission. That way you won't be able to score a direct hit with the first round, yet be able to fix it with corrections, assuming you actually observed the hits.

[headspace 0]

There needs to be some kind of modeling of artillery missing that will be realistically unpredictable, yet remain consistent within at least the same fire mission.

My suggested solution for that would be to define some arbitrary correction--on a per mission basis--to what target pos gets passed to BIS_ARTY_F_ExecuteTemplateMission. This would require the designer to implement their own player interaction, but again, the module will let you do that if you want.

[An Fiach 10]

What it needs is proper map grids then having the guy calling the mission punch in the grid he believes is correct, then from there he can call to adjust fires where he wants it in 10 meter increments.

[galzohar 31]

The problem is RL artillery will miss even if you give it pinpoint accurate grid location, due to imperfect ballistic calculations.

[An Fiach 10]

That isn't a problem though it is realism and mostly that is caused by atmospheric conditions that can cause the round to drift. IRL you can give a pinpoint accurate target location and it will be hit. What I would do though is interrupt the grid system over urban areas in the map to prevent giving such accurate directions as you would be less accurate out in open territory when deciding the grid to call. Also one must take into consideration proximity of friendlies.

---------- Post added at 07:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 PM ----------

Also as a concession to game play making the player position on the map a little less accurate to lessen the ability to make precision calculations of position.

[frederf 0]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the pinpoint accuracy of AI artillery as "not a problem." I also raise the Whiskey Tango Foxtrot flag on having gaps in grids over towns.

Firstly, the BIS ARTY module does not use grids at all but rather position arrays. If artillery was called in via Grid reference and not the exact point your binoculars happen to be pointed, it would increase the skill required and decrease the laser accuracy of artillery. It would be nice if the terrain grids were 100m instead of 200m and estimating tenths for 8-figure grid references would be perfectly doable.

I'm not unhappy with the BIS ARTY system. It's simplistic and overly easy but that's fine for the general audience. I know that mod makers have access to ARTY and it is customizable enough that adjust fire and mistakes can be introduced.

[Helmut_AUT 0]

My suggested solution for that would be to define some arbitrary correction--on a per mission basis--to what target pos gets passed to BIS_ARTY_F_ExecuteTemplateMission. This would require the designer to implement their own player interaction, but again, the module will let you do that if you want.

If you do it that way - by scripting parameters passed to the module - then it will likely kill the option to run a mission trough SecOps, no?

Firstly, the BIS ARTY module does not use grids at all but rather position arrays. If artillery was called in via Grid reference and not the exact point your binoculars happen to be pointed, it would increase the skill required and decrease the laser accuracy of artillery. It would be nice if the terrain grids were 100m instead of 200m and estimating tenths for 8-figure grid references would be perfectly doable

That was kind of my point. Looking with Binocs at something and mouse-click arty exactly on that position is really a bit easy. A different methid for the first request, as you suggest, is also a good idea.

I agree that the general audience might just want to call down arty in a most simple way, but that could be a difficulty setting if BIS properly implements advanced features in the Arty Logic or Sec Ops logic. If we have to hand-script "realistic" arty, it would only serve in a handfull of user made missions.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Helmut_AUT

[Blackfire. 10]

my thoughts on how arty should be (if not in the vanila game than on one of the mods)

1. limited ammount of projectiles (not fire missions)

2. player can chose how many rounds to fire

3. limited accuarcy for first round - then adjust fire

4. add option for slow rate of fire (1 splash every 10-15 secs)

5. smoke rounds should last at least 2 mins, not 15 secs

[Alex72 1]

The smoke did stay short when i tested. Way to short to move troops hidden behind it.

[frederf 0]

Blackfire, most of what you mention is well within normal operation for ArmA2.

Using a real battery the projectiles are limited by what the guns have loaded. Rounds to fire is in the fire mission dialog (perhaps not in the template but it's in the script call). There is no limited accuracy on the first round however. Time between shots is also part of the script call (0 means that they fire as fast as they can). Smoke round duration will probably have to be modded.

[MBot 0]

I like the idea of manualy entering the grid reference and then adjust additional fire as needed.

What is rather silly of the current artillery system as implemented into the campaign is that you only get one fire mission at a time. So you call in a adjust mission, get your 2 spotting rounds and then it's over...

[Blackfire. 10]

what i ment is to have the option to fire 5, 10 or 50+ rounds

or anything in between, also the slow fire rate is importent.

[frederf 0]

The script is capable of firing any number of rounds that you like. It's just a parameter passed to the function. The default template does not have every possible combination of parameters.

Someone'll do a GUI artillery interaction program that lets you adjust all that is adjustable in the function call. They might even string together a few arty requests to get mixed ammo types, adjust fire into fire for effect, etc.

[blakeace 11]

It would be nice if the terrain grids were 100m instead of 200m and estimating tenths for 8-figure grid references would be perfectly doable.

Acutally the Arma2 grid reference for the default maps is 100m squares when using the six figure grid reference. Arma1 had a 200m four figure grid reference.

It is easy to verify, go into the editor, place a player unit on one grid line, place a second unit one grid line over. Assuming you are zoomed in on the editor map. When you preview it if you have friendly tags on if you hover your cursor over the unit it will state it is 100m away.

This makes the grid reference system more conventional. Well in reference to twenty year ago anyway when I was in an arty regiment. We would use six figure grid references for fire missions.

If someone wanted to emulate inaccuracy ignoring things like atmospheric condtions etc. then you would need to include how accurate is the location of the guns known, say some where within one 100m grid square. The same for the target, depending on how accurate the map is, how correctly the refences are being used to locate the target point etc. You resonably say an initial error of upto 100m meters is possible. It could easily be more or less depending on the skills of the person reading the map, and how accurate the map actually is!

The advent of GPS systems has probably improved the above assumptions though I am unable to validate something like that.

Edited July 12, 2009 by blakeace

[frederf 0]

Yeah that's a goof on my part. ArmA2's Chernarus does use 1km and 100m grid lines with the proper military grid numbers. Ooh-rah.

My understanding is that in modern usage 8-figure or even 10-figure grid references can be used with artillery.

[arma2disapointed 10]

Put in artillery test mission in the demo pleas.

[galzohar 31]

Yes, the additional figures go towards locating you inside the 100mX100m square. 10 figure would give you coordinates accurate to the meter, usually not possible without being actually on site and using a good GPS with good satellite cover. Estimating the first 9 figures though by just looking at a map is more than doable (and since standard is 10 figure you just add a "0"s at the ends).