Weapon transition (THIS IS IMPORTANT)

[max power 21]

Getting killed while in an animation transition is just the result of poor planning.

[afp 1]

I'm for fast transition too, adrenaline in pressure conditions can make miracles sometimes.

[dreday 1]

I'm for fast transition too, adrenaline in pressure conditions can make miracles sometimes.

Sometimes... But most of the time, it works the other way around. People can not handle simple mechanical functions when riding high on adrenaline and CNS stress...

Peace,

DreDay

[galzohar 31]

The current soldier does not have a slow transition because of adrenaline or whatever. He has slow transitions simply because it was poorly designed. Besides, a trained soldier shouldn't suffer from adrenaline to the point where his performance is noticeably hindered. Not most soldiers anyway.

Just check out all the linked videos... They look like slow, relaxed, training-style transitions, yet are still WAY faster than those in Arma 2.

[dreday 1]

The current soldier does not have a slow transition because of adrenaline or whatever. He has slow transitions simply because it was poorly designed. Besides, a trained soldier shouldn't suffer from adrenaline to the point where his performance is noticeably hindered. Not most soldiers anyway.

Just check out all the linked videos... They look like slow, relaxed, training-style transitions, yet are still WAY faster than those in Arma 2.

My post was meant to target those who were saying that the adrenaline somehow magically makes you perform complex mechanical functions faster and with greater precision, which is generally a mistaken notion.

To your point though, who's to say that all the soldiers in ARMA2 are super-fast emotionless terminators? Maybe some FR and Spetsnaz guys would qualify here, but what about the insurgent tankers and pilots? Should they also perform the same tricks as elite operators with years of continuous muscle memory exercises to their credit? That's why I had said in my original post that the pistol transition should be directly tied to the soldier's experience level. Changing it for everyone would not make the game any more realistic than what it is now.

Peace,

DreDay

[galzohar 31]

I agree with you about adrenaline stuff not turning you into a super soldier, but I disagree with enforcing unrealistically slow transitions as a mean to try simulate adrenaline, pressure, lack of training etc. You'll just never get adrenaline/pressure right - no matter how you do it it'll probably have no effect where it should have and have too much of an effect where it shouldn't. I mean you're welcome to try, I simply highly doubt anything like this could ever work right. Besides how do you decide which soldier is a cold-blooded killer and which is the guy that gets an adrenaline attack after the first shot is fired? As for training, you should assume that a soldier using a certain weapon is trained to use it. Heck this game assumes everyone is trained with everything, or how else can we fly jets and helicopters with our infantrymen? *Even if* you want to simulate lack of training there's a lot of work you need to do before messing with the pistol transition becomes the one thing that ruins your "different soldiers are trained differently" simulation.

Bottom line is, pistol swaps should be quick, as that's what they're meant for - both IRL and in game. Factors that may or may not slow you down IRL just cannot be simulated properly, and it's better to ignore them than to over-simulate them.

[afp 1]

Someone should make some measurements on movies, for example I think in the last video its about 1.5 second while in game its like 2.5s or something. Anyway, noone arrange the weapon on back to get the sidearm when enemy is ahead and the weapon jammed, like in game, they let it drop in sling.

So it should be faster anyway.

Edited June 20, 2009 by afp

[celery 8]

Getting killed while in an animation transition is just the result of poor planning.

Of course. The game is flawless.

[Mcpl-Ripcord 0]

I am in the Army and carry a main weapon and a sidearm.

main is a C9A2, also known as a M249

I carry a sidearm do to the slow loading of my main weapon

dropping my weapon from standing/kneeling (on a tactical sling) and drawing my sidearm takes less time then it takes to say "1 1000" (also known as "oh shit" both taking roughly the same amount of time to say)

no one trains to sling their weapon on their back before drawing a sidearm..it isn't practical (if you are pulling out a sidearm it is a bad situation already why take the extra time?)..

and in game (arma2) it takes forever to draw a sidearm..far longer then in real life..which for a milsim is counter productive.

Edited June 20, 2009 by Mcpl-Ripcord

[dreday 1]

I am in the Army and carry a main weapon and a sidearm.

main is a C9A2, also known as a M249

Just out of curiosity, how long does it take to reload an M249 in your experience?

Peace,

DreDay

[frederf 0]

Yeah I've always found the ArmA reloads of belt fed weapon (M16s too but that's another matter) to be a touch too quick.

[max power 21]

My post was meant to target those who were saying that the adrenaline somehow magically makes you perform complex mechanical functions faster and with greater precision, which is generally a mistaken notion.

Peace,

DreDay

There is a certain degree of 'psychological arousal' where human performance peaks. After that point, the ability of people to make rational actions decreases sharply. This is the reason why emergency exit doors open outwards and have those big, wide, push latches. A group of people burned to death in a theatre because the seething, crushing mob rushed the door to escape the flames and noone could pull it open. What a way to go.

[afp 1]

I am in the Army and carry a main weapon and a sidearm.

main is a C9A2, also known as a M249

I carry a sidearm do to the slow loading of my main weapon

dropping my weapon from standing/kneeling (on a tactical sling) and drawing my sidearm takes less time then it takes to say "1 1000" (also known as "oh shit" both taking roughly the same amount of time to say)

no one trains to sling their weapon on their back before drawing a sidearm..it isn't practical (if you are pulling out a sidearm it is a bad situation already why take the extra time?)..

and in game (arma2) it takes forever to draw a sidearm..far longer then in real life..which for a milsim is counter productive.

Yep, that's what I meant...

The secondary weapon becomes useless along the whole game, due to the slow animation. At least we would use it in case of emergency, but that slow its completelly useless... I think its a design flaw.

Edited June 20, 2009 by afp

[Mcpl-Ripcord 0]

Just out of curiosity, how long does it take to reload an M249 in your experience?

on the range and in practice ..doing a nice full change including "sweeping the tray" takes 8 - 9 1/2 seconds, that is a full box change from "sweeping to holding the cocking handle back etc etc etc"

In Asscrackistan (Afghanistan) I skipped the foreplay and loaded in 5 - 6 seconds (Guesstimate) this was in Platoon and Section level firefights where I had time to spare but not time to waste.

[dreday 1]

on the range and in practice ..doing a nice full change including "sweeping the tray" takes 8 - 9 1/2 seconds, that is a full box change from "sweeping to holding the cocking handle back etc etc etc"

In Asscrackistan (Afghanistan) I skipped the foreplay and loaded in 5 - 6 seconds (Guesstimate) this was in Platoon and Section level firefights where I had time to spare but not time to waste.

Thank you for your input! I hope that BIS (or at least the ACE guys) are taking notes...

---------- Post added at 06:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 AM ----------

There is a certain degree of 'psychological arousal' where human performance peaks. After that point, the ability of people to make rational actions decreases sharply. This is the reason why emergency exit doors open outwards and have those big, wide, push latches. A group of people burned to death in a theatre because the seething, crushing mob rushed the door to escape the flames and noone could pull it open. What a way to go.

Yep, that's exactly what I had meant. BTW, this is also the main reasons for the AKs fire selector going from Safety to Auto to Single. Many people assume that the Soviets wanted their soldiers to favor automatic fire in place of single shots. According to the ex-Soviets though, this was done with an understanding that a soldier full of adrenaline would likely just slam the selector all the way to the bottom and this feature prevents him from emptying his entire clip in 3 seconds....

---------- Post added at 06:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:05 AM ----------

Yep, that's what I meant...

The secondary weapon becomes useless along the whole game, due to the slow animation. At least we would use it in case of emergency, but that slow its completelly useless... I think its a design flaw.

To be fair, it is far from useless; it is still a handy feature for the snipers who would much rather use it in CQB in place of rifles. Also, it would be much more appreciated if the machine guns had the proper reload times...

Peace,

DreDay

[galzohar 31]

on the range and in practice ..doing a nice full change including "sweeping the tray" takes 8 - 9 1/2 seconds, that is a full box change from "sweeping to holding the cocking handle back etc etc etc"

In Asscrackistan (Afghanistan) I skipped the foreplay and loaded in 5 - 6 seconds (Guesstimate) this was in Platoon and Section level firefights where I had time to spare but not time to waste.

Yeah, gotta love the "reloading by the book" with machineguns... Safety is great - when it doesn't get you killed ;)

For those who don't know, the "standard" reload procedure for machineguns such as the M249 is something like that, more or less:

-Place the weapon on its bipod with the barrel pointing 45deg into the ground. safety thing, in combat just skip.

-Pull the charging handle back, and "secure" it by placing your thumb at the "back" of the rifle while holding the charging handle. Again it's safety to avoid misfires, you can just pull the charging handle and place it back right away quickly instead of holding it for the entire process

-Open the top, clear leftovers.

-Remove drum/box, place new one, place bullets inside, close top.

-Place the charging handle back forward (so that it doesn't break when you fire and the bolt pulls it back).

Skipping all the safety stuff greatly reduces the reload time.

[Alex72 1]

It has not, I'm playing the german release patched to v1.01... this feels just like ArmA1.. :(

What? I tested this (one of the important things to test for me) and i could switch the rifle and M136 as i wanted - in mid animation.

NOT LIKE ArmA1

[TKTom 10]

72;1318530']What? I tested this (one of the important things to test for me) and i could switch the rifle and M136 as i wanted - in mid animation.

NOT LIKE ArmA1

We can certainly cancel animations now, in that on the press of a button (double tap of middle mouse for me) the animation will "re-wind" to it's starting position. However, with AT weapons this is still very slow and it would be helpful to simply chuck the larger weapon on the ground.

[bricks 6]

I am in the Army and carry a main weapon and a sidearm.

main is a C9A2, also known as a M249

I carry a sidearm do to the slow loading of my main weapon

dropping my weapon from standing/kneeling (on a tactical sling) and drawing my sidearm takes less time then it takes to say "1 1000" (also known as "oh shit" both taking roughly the same amount of time to say)

no one trains to sling their weapon on their back before drawing a sidearm..it isn't practical (if you are pulling out a sidearm it is a bad situation already why take the extra time?)..

and in game (arma2) it takes forever to draw a sidearm..far longer then in real life..which for a milsim is counter productive.

So let me get this straight, your a Master Corporal C9 gunner? Who did you piss off? Also C9 gunner's don't carry sidearms.

[Mcpl-Ripcord 0]

So let me get this straight, your a Master Corporal C9 gunner? Who did you piss off? Also C9 gunner's don't carry sidearms.

What unit are you in?

the C9 isn't my usual issued weapon (i mentioned it do to the pertinence to the topic) but as the situation dictates i have used it from time to time.

I'm also no longer a Master corporal (haven't been for 2 years now)

and in Afghanistan i always had a sidearm regardless of what weapon i was carrying at the time.

Edited June 21, 2009 by Mcpl-Ripcord
i r cannt spel :(

[afp 1]

To be fair, it is far from useless; it is still a handy feature for the snipers who would much rather use it in CQB in place of rifles. Also, it would be much more appreciated if the machine guns had the proper reload times...

Really. What game were you playing? :) As much as I tried, I couldn't find a use for a sidearm in ArmA1.... If switching to it would be faster, for sure I would carry one.