I want HEIGHT

[l mandrake 9]

Dont know why I didnt post this earlier (doh).

The one thing that ARMA desperately lacks is height - that is, enemy AI almost never uses rooftops, trees, towers to snipe/suppress from, so all combat takes place at ground level, which slowly gets boooring....

I really hope in ARMA2 you will see enemy squads deploying snipers on rooftops with fluid, bug-free ladders and stairs. I want to have to look UP as well as left and right!!!!

[Muzza 0]

me too.

[S!fkaIaC 10]

AI works 2D in ArmA 1, height will be a secret for AI also in ArmA2.

This statement is based on nothing else then experience.

[Balschoiw 0]

Problem with height in Arma is missing roadway definitions for roofs, balconies, etc.

That´s why there was no way to have units patrol rooftops or balconies. They were simply unuseable for moving AI.

I hope this detail has been added to Arma 2 but I don´t place my bets on it.

[Perun 0]

And also, one problem of being on the roof top is, that you can only hardly flee :) Face it, if you are in battle, you will rather not go on the roof top, also bacause you are then better target for helis and snipers. Also snipers use rarely trees as shooting place. Sometimes for hiding, but this doesn't have a point. I don't see much use of it, as Arma 2 is not a simulation of CQB, however BI said with MicroAI it could be.

[max power 21]

Uhm.. highground is always sought by armies. Anytime I see a firefight on youtube, the fighters are usually on some balcony.

[mattxr 9]

Use a script to place enemys in those spots and then you have your problem solved :)

[icebreakr 3157]

Once I've had a roof insertion to a TV Station E of Bagango. There's been a enemy AI squad on the ground just along the building. Entire freaking squad came climbing to roof and we had to pick off one by one at the top :)

[Balschoiw 0]

Use a script to place enemys in those spots and then you have your problem solved

Unfortunally this is untrue (no offence, I really like you)

Static shooters on rooftops are possible with scripting, but there is no way apart from a setpos loop to get them going on rooftops or balconies, and it´s really a piece of crap to get this going and look fine.

Balconies are totally out of question with Arma I as the building geometry covers them and the AI on balconies can´t even shoot. It simply is impossible because of the hindering geometry of the building.

Unless there is/are proper roadway lod for buildings on all elements and stories it won´t work, even with scripting.

[-)rStrangelove 0]

there is no way apart from a setpos loop to get them going on rooftops or balconies.

Unless there is/are proper roadway lod for buildings on all elements and stories it won´t work, even with scripting.

If this is true, why can i (as a grp leader) send any unit to a predefined building pos? They will stay there until i say otherwise and they will shoot through windows and from rooftops if there's no other building in the way.

This normally works. If you haven't been able to do it via scripts then maybe you're using the wrong ones or in case you've written them, you're doing something wrong in ur script.

Just a thought.

[Balschoiw 0]

If this is true, why can i (as a grp leader) send any unit to a predefined building pos? They will stay there until i say otherwise and they will shoot through windows and from rooftops if there's no other building in the way.

It only works for enterable buildings and if there are predefined building positions. Most of the buildings in Arma are not enterable though, or have no predefined building positions. This also accounts for hallways, galleries that are enterable via stairs, balconies that are pure eyecandy only and walls that also have stair or ladder access but have no positons or working roadway mapping to enable AI to move to/on them. Only about 10-20 percent of the Arma buildings are useable for AI because of that. That´s not much and if you ever tried to setup ambushes in narrow city-streets you know that you can hardly make it work properly because of that limitations. I spent quite some time testing that things, even setpos´ing pallettes under balconies to have static guards there, but the model shape does block their sight and they are not even able to engage enemies from a fixed position because of that technical limitation. At least all flat roofs should be prepared for moving AI´s, same with hallways, and big city walls with stair access for having patrolling guards up there. It´s a feature that comes with building design and I hope BIS is putting more effort into it as with Arma where all of those building types were not useable at all for moving AI units as they always wanted to get to the ground first when given a WP on a building roof.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Balschoiw

[Hyp3rdyn3 10]

I can just imagine AI being able to use rooftops and just standing around in the middle of the roof, exposing themselves against the sky, making themselves very obvious and not using their position to any advantage. They would need to understand that a rooftop is a special firing platform, that they need to keep a low profile and use the edge of the roof as cover, preferably exposing themselves only when targets are close so as to maximise the ambush potential. Just allowing ai to use a rooftop, in their present state, may achieve little more than making them look stupid(er).

[Balschoiw 0]

I can just imagine AI being able to use rooftops...*snip*

It´s a matter of mission editing to get this straight. By getting the distance to player(s) via script you can change the unit stance on the fly when the players get into range. This would mean that you can hide the units by having them prone when the player(s) approach and let them stand up and engage once they are near enough for a surprise or trap.

All that you object to can be achieved by scripting but it would make it much more easier if the rooftops, balconies, hallways, walls are actually useable for AI for patrol-routes and random moves around the area for simulating watchposts.

[S!fkaIaC 10]

Assuming that path definitions to rooftops, balconies, hallways via stairs, elevators etc is somehow solved, it is still an issue how AI should select path and position with the new 3rd dimension. It is Cover vs. overview over the scene. Maybe in defense/hide mode AI should avoid high positions. Dunno.

[-)rStrangelove 0]

I believe if every buidling in ArmA would be accessible / with AI pathnodes added, there would be a lot more lag, esp in MP PvAI. Either that, or the cities would've been a lot more smaller. Either way, when comparing ArmA with other close combat games like CoD / Fear, ArmA will always loose in the close combat area, but win in the 'free move & find targets' area.

These are simply 2 different gaming styles. Period. ArmA X will never be like CoD X.

Although personally i'd say custom made buildings and scripts turning the micro AI into a CoD 'action shooter' AI could be great fun really.

From my experience the question is not about what's possible with the ArmA AI, it's more about what can we do without making the AI getting in your way. When it comes to combat, scripting the AI is really a pain in the *bum*. ;)

[volkov956 0]

Ai in Cayo for exmaple when your on the roof we got dropped from a chopper to a roof, the AI climbed the rafter to an ajacent building where they then engaged us fro the roof. Ai can do it but it seems rare. I have had them even go up a ladder and get me in the church window. But most of the times they are prevented from doing it because of the Grid. Supposedly the grid is so damn small this wont limit AI movements like in Arma