Fast Roping

[frederf 0]

A native rope descent system in ArmA2 sounds like a perfectly annoying feature as every two-bit mission maker shoehorns this CoD-style feature into missions where it doesn't belong. I envision fast-ropings into big empty fields and the like. There are times when it would be used appropriately but for the majority of cases it would be "idiot enabling."

This thread demonstrates how clueless most people are as to the nature of these insertions. It's neither faster nor safer than more traditional means, it just is the best alternative if traditional meas aren't up to the task. As for ArmA, when was the last time that a helicopter landing was strictly impossible in the current terrain within 100m of the desired point? There's also the descision of when to do each. The AI and player has got to be able to decide when to do each process.

Now that the negatives are out of the way, yeah, it would be good to have this feature implemented properly and used responsibly. This might allow the AI to offload infantry in terrain it would otherwise have a fit trying to land in. The CoD kiddies would also get a thrill out of it which would boost sales.

The programatic challenges of coding it are simply stagarring though. I don't know of any game that's had fast roping from a helicopter that was anything other than a temporarily static prop (GRAW for example). There is a bigger category of solution that relies on movement-in-vehicle-coordinate-space which would be required for towing, walking on moving vehicles, lifting, etc. Transitions between coordinate spaces would have to be acknowledged on all multiplayer localities for a respectible result. setPos airlifting is awful looking because the coordinate space is global instead of vehicle centric with little to no motion prediction and poor update rate.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Actually, in Arma we see a lot of landings that would never take place in real life. Landing 'in' trees and at rather extreme slopes. But that I think is just an issue of Arma being too forgiving.

But I agree, my wishing for fast roping was more for having a system builtin to be used for other things, not for fast roping as such.

I also agree that, by implementing such as system could cause even more ridicilous gameplay than we already see today in mainstream multiplayer games. It's the same reason I don't want to have the Desert Eagle .50 AE as a default weapon, it would do nothing for authenticity, only make most mission look insane.

[1in1class 0]

A native rope descent system in ArmA2 sounds like a perfectly annoying feature as every two-bit mission maker shoehorns this CoD-style feature into missions where it doesn't belong. I envision fast-ropings into big empty fields and the like. There are times when it would be used appropriately but for the majority of cases it would be "idiot enabling."

This thread demonstrates how clueless most people are as to the nature of these insertions. It's neither faster nor safer than more traditional means, it just is the best alternative if traditional meas aren't up to the task. As for ArmA, when was the last time that a helicopter landing was strictly impossible in the current terrain within 100m of the desired point? There's also the descision of when to do each. The AI and player has got to be able to decide when to do each process.

Now that the negatives are out of the way, yeah, it would be good to have this feature implemented properly and used responsibly. This might allow the AI to offload infantry in terrain it would otherwise have a fit trying to land in. The CoD kiddies would also get a thrill out of it which would boost sales.

The programatic challenges of coding it are simply stagarring though. I don't know of any game that's had fast roping from a helicopter that was anything other than a temporarily static prop (GRAW for example). There is a bigger category of solution that relies on movement-in-vehicle-coordinate-space which would be required for towing, walking on moving vehicles, lifting, etc. Transitions between coordinate spaces would have to be acknowledged on all multiplayer localities for a respectible result. setPos airlifting is awful looking because the coordinate space is global instead of vehicle centric with little to no motion prediction and poor update rate.

LOL your off top man get it right this is no CoD game its more tactical then that. Why would you come on here and say that CoD stuff this has nothing to do what so ever about that game and its tatics ok, also saying for the kiddies im gusseing you righ cause your post is all about the CoD and shoot them up games. Are you getting your but kicked in CoD on MP or something? Look this system up ok, its used in todays military thats all there is to it if it was an big problem of the system it would not be used. It was in OFP and was an vary nice option to have. Add you bring up CoD and GRAW them games have nothing on this game nothing. Did you play OFP?

[max power 21]

I disgree, I think it is a must.

The you will be disappointed.

[Hell_Toupee 0]

A native rope descent system in ArmA2 sounds like a perfectly annoying feature as every two-bit mission maker shoehorns this CoD-style feature into missions where it doesn't belong. I envision fast-ropings into big empty fields and the like. There are times when it would be used appropriately but for the majority of cases it would be "idiot enabling."

Heh so true, people love any excuse to use some cool but pointless feature.

[Steakslim 1]

There isn't that many "CoD" kiddies in this community that the would be "roping into an open field", infact I face-palm'd thinking of someone doing that. I'd simply like to have it as an option, perhaps only employed by the pilot via action menu if he wishes you to exit the aircraft in such a manner (i'm talking about MP here, I'm not really a big fan of SP in most of the games I play).

As for idiots. We already have them, additing a roping ability will not make them any different. They're still gonna grab a heli and fly off somewhere for god knows what reason, and crash it when trying to do a low hover over a street between two buildings with a Chinook, or in ArmA2's case...the Osprey, again for reasons I cannot fathom. I've actually made it a fun little game being an engineer if the option is available, and heading out searching, repairing, and retrieving these mishaps if they are salvagable (and if i'm allowed to fly).

[1in1class 0]

Heh so true, people love any excuse to use some cool but pointless feature.

Pointless tell me why then? Tell me why the military use the fast rope system huh tell me something here:dozingoff: Read this post maybe it will put some light on it for ya.

[Axeman1224 10]

I am more worried about having the pilots with the ability to hover above an urban area so as too fast rope in.

[Hell_Toupee 0]

Pointless tell me why then? Tell me why the military use the fast rope system huh tell me something here:dozingoff: Read this post maybe it will put some light on it for ya.

They don't use it in 99.9% of cases, its a slow and dangerous method of insertion.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Hell_Toupee

[1in1class 0]

They don't use it in 99.9% of cases, its a slow and dangerous method of insertion.

It is not an slow method thats why its called "FAST ROPE" yes they dont use it all the time as i said befor but it is used when it is called for and more then ya think. All insertions are dangerous in diffrent ways, that is why its used in its field of operations that is needed.

[frederf 0]

CoD and GRAW them games have nothing on this game nothing. Did you play OFP?

I merely brought up GRAW since they have a nice fast roping animation in the game but it only uses a static prop helicopter. I was merely commenting about how no game I've seen has really done fast roping technically well in a way ArmA could use.

Actually, in Arma we see a lot of landings that would never take place in real life. Landing 'in' trees and at rather extreme slopes. But that I think is just an issue of Arma being too forgiving.

But I agree, my wishing for fast roping was more for having a system builtin to be used for other things, not for fast roping as such.

That's true about how we cheat helicopters in to dangerous spaces very often. For one the rotor disks can never strike a solid object so all you have to do it make sure the body of the helicopter doesn't hit anything. I'd love to see rotor strikes added to ArmA. After 200 crashes some "expert pilots" would start being a whole lot more picky about their landing zones.

I'm not opposed to letting that baby have its bottle, so to speak, just hoping that if the BIS devs code fast roping they do it in such a broad way that all manner of more practicable improvements can piggyback onto it.

There isn't that many "CoD" kiddies in this community that the would be "roping into an open field", infact I face-palm'd thinking of someone doing that.

I think we have worse than CoD kiddies, we have "USMC force recon wannabes." Impulsive kids are one thing but get one that thinks they are being proper in what they are doing and it's game over. You know either people would rope into a wide open landable space or they would design the mission so they roped onto a lone building in the middle of an open field. :p

It is not an slow method thats why its called "FAST ROPE" yes they dont use it all the time as i said befor but it is used when it is called for and more then ya think. All insertions are dangerous in diffrent ways, that is why its used in its field of operations that is needed.

I hate to burst your bubble but fast roping is called "fast" because it's quicker than using a full rappel harness. It's catastrophically slow compared to landing and stepping onto the ground. You basically only do it if there's no room to land.

[1in1class 0]

I hate to burst your bubble but fast roping is called "fast" because it's quicker than using a full rappel harness. It's catastrophically slow compared to landing and stepping onto the ground. You basically only do it if there's no room to land.

Then you got this twisted that option to fast rope is an quick way on opetarions that are its needs, as you said they do it if there is no where to land or if its an better option. So it is needed in the military ok. Then so ya it would be slow if you were in an open field to do an fast rope drop but why would you do that? Thats why it is used when it is. Your getting this all twisted up and all. Do you understand that it is used right? Now yes i understand that its not used all the time ok but its used well enoff for its operations. No busted bubble here i know that fast rope is quicker then an rappel thats why they use the fast rope system lol your killing me here wow.

[Hell_Toupee 0]

You claimed fast rope was not a slow method, it is was Fredef explained, its only faster than abseiling its still much slower and thus more dangerous than a traditional insertion.

In Somalia the first casualty was top a fast roping accident, not to mention the 2 blackhawks they lost trying to rope people down.

[1in1class 0]

You claimed fast rope was not a slow method, it is was Fredef explained, its only faster than abseiling its still much slower and thus more dangerous than a traditional insertion.

In Somalia the first casualty was top a fast roping accident, not to mention the 2 blackhawks they lost trying to rope people down.

OMG here we go with the Somalia blackhawk down movie thing:j: Is that your fact on this issue? Baseing it on an movie come on, read this post for i think the 3 page and see how many said that lol.

[max power 21]

OMG here we go with the Somalia blackhawk down movie thing:j: Is that your fact on this issue? Baseing it on an movie come on, read this post for i think the 3 page and see how many said that lol.

Uh, that's actually fact. The first American injured during the Battle of Mogadishu during Operation Gothic Serpent was PFC Todd Blackburn. He was seriously injured as a result of a fast-roping accident. He fell 70 meters and sustained extensive head and internal injuries and was MEDIVAC'd out.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Max Power

[1in1class 0]

Uh, that's actually fact. The first American injured during the Battle of Mogadishu during Operation Gothic Serpent was PFC Todd Blackburn. He was seriously injured as a result of a fast-roping accident. He fell 70 meters and sustained extensive head and internal injuries and was MEDIVAC'd out.

Yes Todd Blackburn was an private of the US Rangers but it was on the pilots end that he fell not the fast rope system, Hell_Toupee is baseing it on the rope system that is bad. Read the post first.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Given that fast roping is not every day use in real life, I find it healthy not to include it. If it was implemented (especially i.e. as a hardcoded option on one of the chopper), it would become the norm of doing things during online games instead of the occasional.

You can naturally blame us mission designers for not implement it in a realistic fashion, but for large dynamic mission (mainstream missions), it is impossible to try to impose any such limits of its usage. Therefore it becomes an option that is always available, and hence misused and exploited to the worst degree possible.

Check any mainstream mission today, and see how many of their features are not being used the 'intended' way.

[1in1class 0]

Haveing the option to do so is much more better then not haveing it at all:icon_hm: There is no blame on any mission makers in this option of the fast rope system, for the limits they are pushed for all ends to make game play that much better:bigsmile: More option give an more realistic feel to the game even the little things like takeing of your helmet. In OFP this fast rope system was almost on all choppers that were made by addon makers that tells you something there.

[max power 21]

Yes Todd Blackburn was an private of the US Rangers but it was on the pilots end that he fell not the fast rope system, Hell_Toupee is baseing it on the rope system that is bad. Read the post first.

The reason why he fell has not been found.

If fast-roping was inherently safe, he should not have fallen. Riding in a helicopter without being secured to it with the doors open is inherently unsafe. Lots of things the military does is inherently unsafe. The question is, does the cost / benefit analysis of fast roping make sense for real life or for ArmA. For real life, I don't know. For ArmA? I doubt it very much.

[1in1class 0]

The reason why he fell has not been found.

If fast-roping was inherently safe, he should not have fallen. Riding in a helicopter without being secured to it with the doors open is inherently unsafe. Lots of things the military does is inherently unsafe. The question is, does the cost / benefit analysis of fast roping make sense for real life or for ArmA. For real life, I don't know. For ArmA? I doubt it very much.

Reason of hem falling was the pilots error look it up:colgate: Dont know the whole detail but it is know that its the pilots doings, Yes if you read in my posts on here that things do go sour all the time nothing goes as planed. ArmA is an war game of modern day so if the military use it why not in ArmA 2?

[max power 21]

I looked it up when I posted initially. It said the reason he fell has not been found. You're making assumptions based on some testimony that the aircraft moved as he was going for the door. In spite of this, witnesses aboard the helicopter said they thought he got on the rope as normal. What you have is a witness saying the helicopter moved, but you can't place where exactly he fell, whether he was on the rope or not, or if he was even bothered by the helicopter moving at all.

[1in1class 0]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gothic_Serpent Her ya go all ya need to know, no assumption just what is told. Look and read k. Edited May 23, 2009 by 1in1class
need

[max power 21]

LOL. Yeah, there's never any assumptions on wikipedia... nor any bad information.

And yet, here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Blackburn

it says,

In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall.

So which is correct?

[sidhellfire 0]

Boys, may I ask, where do you want to perform fast roping? Are you about to stalk random village huts? I've never seen a scenario where regular assault landing, wasn't best choice.

[SASrecon 0]

Boys, may I ask, where do you want to perform fast roping? Are you about to stalk random village huts? I've never seen a scenario where regular assault landing, wasn't best choice.

look at 1:49

• there isn't enough time to land, and the clue is in the name fast roping :D

• theres not enough space to land either

• the heli landing on the roof would create a lot of noise and vibrations travel well through solids, which could alert the terrorists!

the fast roping could be left to the mods, but i don't see why BIS can't put it in, imho i think fast-roping would add a lot of immersion with the dust below the heli, terrorists in the building below you and with BIS' new running anim, they can surely create a FR anim with the same immersion and just the right camera shake ;)

edit: i forgot to mention the vid was a cheesy siege with a plot based on the iranian embassy siege, but the fast-roping is still relevant, i can just imagine recreating this in sahrani life/chernarus life!

Edited May 23, 2009 by SASrecon