Ofp unit movement animations into Arma

[Guest]

Hello

I felt inspired to kinda just ask, does it seem possible that unit movement animations may get modded into Arma someday?

I dont even know if its possible, and certainly this is not a thread that asks for it..

Im just wondering what people think, if it might happen, if its even doable..

(no, Im one that does not like my unit looking like the hunchback from Notre Dame every time I want to run somewhere..)

[madrussian 347]

I hated the ArmA animations at first.  Soldiers sprinting at speeds that would make Olympians jealous...  Broken transitions all over the place...  Soldiers warping from a dead halt to a full bore sprint in an instant and then pop!  Dead stop again.  Patch after patch and BIS never fixed it!

Then someone (can't recall the name) fixed some of the transitions.  It was like a great weight lifted off my shoulders.  Then TrueGameplay came along and fixed some more transitions.  Finally I learned how and fixed the remainder.  (I never got around to releasing, if anyone is interested, just holler).

Truegameplay also slowed everything down enough that things seem realistic now (imo).  I had to lower the various sprints a bit more and do some other tweaking… Suddenly, I really liked ArmA anims!

But after having that whole experience I do feel your frustration not to have the amins just like you want them.  The good news on OFP/ArmA as you mentioned is that it is possible to get them just as you like (with potentially a huge amount of effort that is).

Regarding vanilla OFP animation, imo they are fine and they do capture that feeling of being a soldier in battle taking fire.  My only issue is that iirc your gun was always pointing forward, and that’s absolutely not possible while trying to jog or sprint in real life.  This is where I think that ArmA has got it right.  [No offense meant to the maker(s) of the replacement anims for OFP but they seemed way too stiff and rigid for my tastes.]  Interesting idea you’ve got to port OFP animations to ArmA.  I bet many folks would be very happy at that.  Huge amount of work probably though.  In the mean time let’s hope we are all less offended by ArmA2 anims!  And I mean when it launches. Not a year later once we wring all the bugs out.

[Guest]

I hear ya m8

Ya, I agree the Ofp 'standard' run with weapon pointing forward is not accurate to real life, but, on the other hand, the overall animation was fluid enough to do me just fine for a game. Arma, man, what is up with the run, head all scrunched down and leaning forward, back bowed, shoulders jutting up back and forth, I mean, good grief, this only works for a soldier under fire, it is not a universal run by any means, and most missions I play, Im more often *not* under fire than I am under fire, and get tired of running like I *am* under fire all the time! lol (that was weird)

Id rather take an animation that I use all the time that does not replicate real life, but looks just fine in game all the time, rather than something that just looks wrong most of the time, for me.

You said Arma2!...

[madrussian 347]

You've got some good points there.  I never really thought about how I was moving when not under fire (which as you mention is more times than not).

Hmmm... I'm going to end up looking a little deeper next time I fire up ArmA.  Now gosh dang-it.  If you've ruined ArmA anims for me I will never forgive you Special Ed!

Not really. 

I'm curious now.  Do you always sprint or do a mix between jog and sprint?  I toggle it back and forth with the shift key (mapped to Turbo).  So maybe I'm always jogging when not under fire and you are always sprinting?  (which would really be bothersome I would think)

Yeah, what we really need now is for the game to detect whether or not we are under fire and supply the appropriate animation.  (Teaser for OFP2 looked like it might be promising in that regard.)

For the OFP->ArmA idea, Good luck with the port if you give it a go.

EDIT:

Also, I've slowed the jog and sprint down considerably on my setup so they don't seem so "humpy" if you know what I mean (as in vanilla).  Jog for me looks somehow more relaxed than in vanilla and a mix between jog/sprint is more for combat.  Maybe tyring something like that would help you out and prevent more "drastic" measures (i.e. the port idea)

[sakura_chan 9]

its isn't impossible completely, but it would take a lot of work to get an ofp anim into arma. The trouble is that Arma and ofp use completely different base soldier models, their arms and legs are in different positions, they are facing different directions and their height is also different. That's just the easy stuff to fix. The main problem is that Arma soldiers use way more 'bone's' than ofp. Ofp soldiers are pretty simple, with selections for an arm, a leg, a hand etc. but Arma uses 2 selections for each part, plus fully movable fingers. Arma uses a central pelvis bone, while ofp has some kind of split pelvis junk. I've converted the running anim to Arma once before, and it didn't look as good as you would think. The shoulders are out of wack just like in ofp and the guy is just staring off to the side and downwards like in ofp. I never bothered fixing all the missing bones and stuff, I figured that someone should be able to make something better from scratch. If someone wants to give it a try, it is possible to convert an ofp anim to arma by using the RTMtoolbox utility that was released a while ago to rename the ofp selections (in czech) to Arma (English). The rest you got to figure out yourself.

[Guest]

@ MadRussian

Haha

The devil is in the details

I mostly jog, which is Imo the most problematic anim of them all, the 'hunchback' look. The actual sprint animation I think looks dang good. Of course the sprint animation only looks, feels, and works good for a short time before I am moving as slow as jog and breathing like Im hyperventilating .. which is realistic Imo

That would be sweet, had thought of that too m8 A combat mode type run would be nice, doubt it would ever happen here tho (just being realistic )

Im only versed in scripting, I have no clue about working with animations and models

[Guest]

its isn't impossible completely, but it would take a lot of work to get an ofp anim into arma. The trouble is that Arma and ofp use completely different base soldier models, their arms and legs are in different positions, they are facing different directions and their height is also different. That's just the easy stuff to fix. The main problem is that Arma soldiers use way more 'bone's' than ofp. Ofp soldiers are pretty simple, with selections for an arm, a leg, a hand etc. but Arma uses 2 selections for each part, plus fully movable fingers. Arma uses a central pelvis bone, while ofp has some kind of split pelvis junk. I've converted the running anim to Arma once before, and it didn't look as good as you would think. The shoulders are out of wack just like in ofp and the guy is just staring off to the side and downwards like in ofp. I never bothered fixing all the missing bones and stuff, I figured that someone should be able to make something better from scratch. If someone wants to give it a try, it is possible to convert an ofp anim to arma by using the RTMtoolbox utility that was released a while ago to rename the ofp selections (in czech) to Arma (English). The rest you got to figure out yourself.

Interesting

So you were actually able to port it over tho, thats awesome Although buggy and not as visually appealing as you had desired, must have been *something* to see that work out.

I have no experience in this sort of thing, but sounds like a heck of alot of work, even for someone who knows what they are doing from what you typed, sounds like it likely wont happen, but its good to know it is possible.

[madrussian 347]

Broken transitions all over the place...

Then someone (can't recall the name) fixed some of the transitions.

It was you Sakura-chan!  Thank you thank you thank you.  

You got the ball rolling.  Everyone else just followed suit.

btw- Mentioned above, but if anyone is interested, I've got a working set with all transitions fixed (that I could find).  I fixed the remaining obvious ones and then found several broken transitions I didn't even know existed.  I consider it exhaustive now. Any interest and I will definately package and release.

[sakura_chan 9]

You're welcome Btw bis is probably aware of this problem, and not many people noticed that bis already replaced the funny civilian/no weapons running animation with the last patch, so they have all the motion capture hardware available. Maybe they will give us an update with some Arma2 animations in there? Maybe someday!

[madrussian 347]

Haha

The devil is in the details

I mostly jog, which is Imo the most problematic anim of them all, the 'hunchback' look. The actual sprint animation I think looks dang good. Of course the sprint animation only looks, feels, and works good for a short time before I am moving as slow as jog and breathing like Im hyperventilating .. which is realistic Imo

The devil it is.

Sounds like what might be on order for you might be one of a couple of possibilities.

1. Try slowing the jog down some.  See if that helps any.

2. If it's still too "humpy", you probably should consider replacing the jog animation with the sprint animation.  Then you would have two versions of the same sprint animation (one for jog and one for sprint), just one slower than the other  <-Now I've done funny one.

I think you might be all set then, no?

That would be sweet, had thought of that too m8 A combat mode type run would be nice, doubt it would ever happen here tho (just being realistic )

Yeah maybe well get such a thing in 2020.

Im only versed in scripting, I have no clue about working with animations and models

I am clueless about making animations, etc.  But I do understand the animation config at least enough to be dangerous.  If there's anything I know that will help you out in eradicating the "humpy" jog in ArmA so that you get a nice game again, I'll do what I can.

btw- wow check out our posts... we got a lot of e-motions going on. Hahaha

Heres a bannana for effect.

[Guest]

lol

Emoticons rule

Seriously tho

I dont have much time to mess with other things than mission making while editing Arma, rl prohibits me

Are you reading my mind? haha, I was just wondering what the sprint would look like slowed down.. Of course have no idea how to do that, but the only drawback is of course the aggressive style of run there, which does fit the sprint, but even slowed, may not fit the jog. (I know, im picky)

But you have convinced me, I should try out True Gameplay mod

I just went in game, and you know I never realized that just slowing down the jog animation, especially the way the arms jerk the gun back and forth so fast, could do wonders, does True Gameplay slow down animations like that, or is that only done thru learning to customize animation speed?

[madrussian 347]

I'm assuming you just tried jogging in slo-mo, using accTime=0.9 or something similar?

Wondering because that's how I got started.

TrueGameplay mods slows a good deal of the animations down by approx 10%.  (Mostly jogs and sprints with the different weapons.)  It does speed certain things up by various amounts, like swimming and certain transitions.

In case you haven't looked yet, it's broken up into modules, so make sure and use the right one.  The pack is really excellent.  Just use the ones you like, and omit the others.  (Range one in particular gives me troubles.)  I use about 75% of the individual pbos.

One mod in that pack you definitely shouldn't miss is the one affecting turn-speeds.  It gives you a sense of momentum while jogging and sprinting.  It also eliminates spinning so fast in circles while prone.  It's really a must have.

Another thing on the TrueGameplay speed reduction mod.  It's mostly complete, but he did miss a number of animations, and thus there remain some inconsistencies.

After a lengthy learning process and much blood sweat and tears, I "completed" what he started (for my own use, probably should release as an extension to his).  Then I went a couple of steps further, carefully reducing all the sprint speeds a bit more so they make more sense with respect to one another.  (i.e. A man should be able to sprint faster unarmed than he can with a rifle, for starters.)

Then finally I closed the diagonal sprint speed exploit (BIS bug).  You know how you were saying you sprint and sprint for a long time and get tired?  If you switch over to diagonal sprint at that point you are full speed again.  So I fixed that so you cannot sprint diagonally faster than the slowest you get after fatigue sets in.  Yeah overall it's a pretty good addon that I spent a ton of time on.  Just a single PBO.  I probably should release it.

So if TrueGameplay alone does the trick for you, then great.

On the other hand, if you are interested in my extension addon, I'll certainly get it to you to see what you think.

One way or ther other, we'll get your character at least partially de-humptied.

[Guest]

Thanks for the offer there MadRussian

I will try out the True Gameplay mod, and see what it does.

Im not able to get too involved with this, as far as testing out various mods, simply because of my time restrictions - but of course you could always release your mod either way

I'll certainly keep your offer in mind tho. Gotta get ready for worky. Later man

[.kju 3245]

TrueGameplayMods by Rg

Sprint and Animation fixer by Sakura Chan

Proper Anims mod by The-F & Q

its not that hard to play with an improved A1 - really  

[madrussian 347]

@Q

Thanks for all your contributions.  I always have a large set of your proper mods running!  Plus I've learned a ton from looking inside and seeing how you did this and that.

@Rg

Not sure I even mentioned you by name, but thank you so much for you animation fixes and everything else you have achieved with your TrueGameplay mod.

@Special Ed

I really hope you are able to achieve a smooth game for yourself in terms of animations.  The default ArmA anims indeed sucked.  By fixing the transitions and slowing down select animations, you can go a long way toward removing the "humpy" look and feel of default ArmA. (Good word btw... really sums it up.)

And if a combination of the mods discussed and listed don't quite get you there, just keep asking the questions... Myself and others are always here to help.

[mr burns 132]

TrueGameplayMods by Rg

Sprint and Animation fixer by Sakura Chan

Proper Anims mod by The-F & Q

its not that hard to play with an improved A1 - really  

Still be better having all this in one pack  

..im a demanding bitch, yes

So if TrueGameplay alone does the trick for you, then great.

On the other hand, if you are interested in my extension addon, I'll certainly get it to you to see what you think.

So, how about a coorperate effort all-in-one pack?  

[NoRailgunner 0]

Since there are no updates BIS/ProperMods

Quote[/b] ]Due to changes or integration you are NOT recommended to use these PROPER addons in 1.14:

   * PROPER_Anims_Fast_Forward_Transition (integrated - sort of)

   * PROPER_Anims_Move_Transition (integrated)

   * PROPER_Anims_Working_Healing_Animation (integrated)

you may only need & play with those from Truemods  

Quote[/b] ]So I fixed that so you cannot sprint diagonally faster than the slowest you get after fatigue sets in. Yeah overall it's a pretty good addon that I spent a ton of time on. Just a single PBO.  I probably should release it.

What are you waiting for? Do it!

[madrussian 347]

Just so were all clear, I should probably list everything I personally did in one place in order to discuss the possibility of a combined addon (which I very much like the idea of).  There are a total of four components I worked on.

Let's discuss the animation problems I am aware of (and any others) in turn.  Anyone reading this please debate if I've got any of this wrong.

1. Broken Transitions

Ran rampant upon release of ArmA.

Sakura-chan's fix was a wonderful first step but not exhaustive…  Made obsolete by Q’s fix (and BIS patches).  Q’s was a significant improvement but not exhaustive…  Made obsolete by TrueGameplay's fix (and maybe additional BIS patches)

Once the final BIS patch came out, I was still experiencing a number of broken transitions.  Using TrueGameplay as a guide, I fixed all the remaining ones I could find (and in doing so found new ones I wasn't even looking for... fixed them too).

2. Diagonal Sprint Exploit

For those just joining in, this exploit is when you are sprinting for a long time and get tired, you slow down from fatigue.  But if you then simply start off sprinting diagonally, you are at full bore again with no limit.

While tweaking jog and sprint values (see item 3) I became aware of this problem.  After looking around, I didn’t see that anyone had tried to tackle it yet.  So I spent some time, characterizing the problem, and created a fix for it.

The root of the problem is that ArmA limits speed due to fatigue based on forward speed, which it should be based on speed in any direction.  There also appears to be a hard limit under which speed will not degrade due to fatigue.  This value is 17.6 km/h (approx) forward speed.  I have had no luck lowering this barrier.

So my workaround for now is to limit the diagonal speeds to a 17.6 firm value.  In this way the exploit is closed.

If anyone can possibly figure out how to lower that 17.6 barrier, I will buy you a truckload of beer.

 

3. Jog and Sprint Speeds

First thing to say is that speed is ArmA is a subjective thing, and there are plently of people out there creating mods to actually speed things up.

However, IMO, and in the opinion of many others, the speed that various animations are played in vanilla ArmA is simply way too high.  Results are that things don’t look or feel like real life and as Special Ed put it, certain animations are just downright “humpy†because they are going too fast.

Thus Rg came up with the brilliant TrueGameplay mod component that toned down the speed of various animations.  It’s great out helps out sooooo much.

But it does not cover everything consistently.  Based on my detailed analysis, he simply missed certain animations.  If memory serves correctly (made my modifications a while back) the rifle anims were largely complete, but some of the pistol stuff was missing and unarmed was largely undone.  (If anyone would like detailed specifics, I will provide them… at work now and not in front of the config).  I also recall the unarmed jog or sprint had a major problem other than simply not being downgraded like the rest.

So I set forth to take his brilliant work and finish it off (not go off at all in any new direction)… and I am very pleased with the end result.  As far as I am concerned it’s exhaustive now.

For all my work I used a animation, forward speed, and most importantly any-direction speed detection script I devised.  You can fine it here.

EDIT: I should probably mention that my animations config work went excruciatingly slow before I created this script and light speed afterwards.  Feel free to use it for your own purposes.

4. Optional Sprint adjustments.

After item three I still wasn’t quite happy with the forward sprint speeds.  Unarmed, pistol, rifle sprints did not seem to have any rhyme or reason to them, so I set about carefully adjusting them in relation to one another.  I also proportionally lowered them a bit more due, using my eye as a guide and asking the question, “Does this look like people running in real life?â€

I am quite impressed with the results.  But like I said animation speeds are subjective and so I label this particular component as “optionalâ€.

If people are interested, I’ll release my work as an extension to Rg’s TrueGameplay speed reduction component.

His would be listed in the requirements for mine.  You would load my mod after his.  I would also recommend use with his reduced turn speeds component in the readme.

Only thing is it’s all in one PBO right now so it will take a little time to break it up.  (i.e. not everyone will want to use the optional sprint adjustments, etc.)

So what do you all think?

[HGuderian 0]

Very good...it seems solvin' many probs. I'll expect your release....Thanks

Would be nice if u first release it in "one pbo" and then in the other way.

[.kju 3245]

Sounds awesome MadRussian

BIG THANKS for your dedication in all your project!

PS: I was thinking about having sprint only very temporary,

lets say like 10 seconds max and you need ~2-5 minutes to recharge.

So that it would be like a special move instead of the standard

use.

[madrussian 347]

Thanks for the interest guys!

I probably should have released it a long time ago.  Depending on how much juggleing goes on with RL (and my 3rd person cam improvement tool), chances are decent I can have it out this sometime this w/e.

PS: I was thinking about having sprint only very temporary,

lets say like 10 seconds max and you need ~2-5 minutes to recharge.

So that it would be like a special move instead of the standard

use.

I've been trying to implement something very similar.

My approach may be a bit different from what I think you are saying, but hopefully the result would be the same.

I've already figured out how to tire the player out quicker (the "duty" value) but it does no good unless I find a way to allow speed degredation below that hard barrier of 17.6 km/h.  Because 17.6 is way too fast for when you are completely out of breath.  Have you got any idea about how to lower that barrier?  I am thinking of asking around over with the ACE guys.  Supposedly they have developed/are developing a "robust fatigue system".  Maybe they've already cracked that problem.

Hmmm... Now for some reason Q I'm thinking you are an ACE dev... maybe I'm just crazy?

@Special Ed

Didn't mean to hyjack your thread here, friend.  Not quite sure how that happened.

[.kju 3245]

No longer in ACE. While ACE has a nice system, it still has to cope

with the engine limits.

Does higher duty reduce your speed faster or only make you more

tired and therefore more weapon sway?

[madrussian 347]

Correct me if wrong, but ACE still pre-release, no?  If that's the case, and you were on the team for some period of time, just curious about what you know regarding the progress they made on their fatigue system and what approach they were using?

I'm dying to know based on what they were saying about it.

No longer in ACE. While ACE has a nice system, it still has to cope

with the engine limits.

Does higher duty reduce your speed faster or only make you more

tired and therefore more weapon sway?

Based on my expirementation, duty governs overall fatigue (the term tiredness fits also), which in turn governs both speed and weapon sway.

edit: btw- higher the duty the quicker you get tired.

I was hoping to tackle that speed degredation barrier first, raise the duty appropriately, then lessen the weapon sway correspondingly somehow, for an overall consistant and very organic system.

Do you think this approach could work?

[.kju 3245]

contact Sickboy regarding ACE

Quote[/b] ]I was hoping to tackle that speed degredation barrier

first, raise the duty appropriately, then lessen the weapon sway

correspondingly somehow, for an overall consistant and very

organic system.

Do you think this approach could work?

No idea. Not too positive though.

Speed could be affected by scripts, yet real alternative.

Weapon sway is also affected by the stance modifier (aimPrecision).

However this would make sway no existent when you are not

exhausted.

[madrussian 347]

Quick update on the project.

I've started breaking my fixes out from my original all-in-one.  Animation transitions are ready.

However, I'm currently stumped out how to get certain config values to overwrite other ones.  For those interested, I've written a detailed description of what I'm currently up against over here.

With a little help we'll get these important fixes out to all.

@Q

Thanks for all the info.

Speed could be affected by scripts, yet real alternative.

I've tried using setVelocity but it doesn't really work while on foot.  I am intrigued by this "speed affected by scripts" possibility though.  Just curious what you meant exactly?  So I have more to expirement on.

Weapon sway is also affected by the stance modifier (aimPrecision).

However this would make sway no existent when you are not

exhausted.

Very interesting.  I might just have a long term solution, via another mod I've got on the burner.  It's dynamic dispersion... might just complete the picture here.  First things first though.