TrueGameplayMods

[archmoo 0]

Aha! you are right disabling the weapon sway pbo does indeed cause engagement at a longer range.

All in all this mod is definitely a step in the right direction, guess it could still use some tweaking though. I imagine it's also possible that some of these things are hard coded in the engine and there is little the mod author can do to change them ...

Anyhow thanks for your input Q, was most helpful

[.kju 3241]

no worries

i recommend you to try to tweak them on your own.

its just numbers, quite simple.

unpack and pack with cpbo:

http://www.kegetys.net/arma/

[RUKH 0]

rg7621, are there any updates on the eye/camera viewfix?

My hipshooting is really aching for it

[Rg 0]

@RUKH,

No, sorry.

@Q,

Thanks for helping Archmoo out

@Archmoo,

Assuming you have a clean install and nothing else conflicting with TGM, engagement range is not the issue you are having, it is the identification.

What you’re testing is a specific scenario that doesn’t represent typical gameplay. The AI in your test mission is not engaging past 300m or so because the AI are not fully identified as enemy at that range. In your example, I assume that when you (the SL) tell your teammate AI to engage that “man†600m away, he will start to move closer to him to identify him. Nobody knows at this point, because he can't be completely identified at this range. At that far range, that “Man†could be friendly/enemy/civilian. That is why he won’t blindly engage even if you give him the order to do so. That “Man†needs to be identified as enemy before your AI will engage. When he gets within 300m or so, he will be able to identify him with his naked eye as an enemy soldier and will engage. Now if you give him an ACOG as you did, he can clearly identify the “Man†as enemy, because the gun has magnified optics and he will be able to see clearly who it is. The same thing should happen if you (the SL) pull out your binocs and identify the “Man†as “Rifleman†(with the label you get in the UI), then tell your AI to engage.

The reason for this decision is for AI to not instantly know who is at 300-600m out as us human players would not be able to do either.

- AI need to either...

1) Identify with they’re own eyes (with or without magnified optics)

2) Get enough information from you or other AI (AI do share information)

3) Get enough information from the actions of the “unknown†AI (if he shoots his weapon or if he kills someone, ect...)

If you use your test mission, but instead of 1 AI vs. 1 AI, put down 2 squads (1 Squad vs. 1 Squad) and see how differently it plays out. They will all engage at full ranges because they are sharing information amongst them.

- About weapon sway, yes it will affect AI at longer ranges, but it’s not the root cause of your problem. With weapon sway, AI will fire more randomly at long ranges. Without weapon sway, they will fire in the normal "robotic" way. However, if the AI are injured, they’re weapon sway can become pretty massive, so they may fire very little at longer ranges. That's one downside to using it.

------------------------

Anyways, all this discussion really isn’t even necessary. As I suggested (<span style='color:red'>in red</span>) in the first post when I released this pack, use ACE when it becomes available to the public and it is indeed available now to all. While somethings are slightly/dramatically different, ACE is a HUGE mod that has awesome gameplay and tons of features. So again, my recommendation is to put this pack aside and use ACE.    

[manzilla 1]

rg7621,

Will the TrueGameplay-AI stuff work with ACE? I use a few things from TrueMods but I haven't tried the TrueGameplay-AI stuff.

I've seen a few people bring up compatibility questions about this in the ACE thread but I'm not sure if any further discussion or any firm conclusion came to light. I figured you're probably the best person to ask, if you've tried ACE that is.

[archmoo 0]

What you’re testing is a specific scenario that doesn’t represent typical gameplay. The AI in your test mission is not engaging past 300m or so because the AI are not fully identified as enemy at that range.

Ah that's very good, I hadn't thought of that at all Yup seems quite fair

Anyways, all this discussion really isn’t even necessary. As I suggested (<span style='color:red'>in red</span>) in the first post when I released this pack, use ACE when it becomes available to the public and it is indeed available now to all.

Is ACE public yet? I've not been able to find it at all, I had a good look on http://ace.usmc-warriors.org/

Okay, I have a different issue now The AI seem to be able to see as well at night as they can in the day.

I tried the same test (friendly AI team mate, enemy AI running around 300 meters away). Except this time I tried doing it at 2am on a moonless night. Making sure that neither AI had night vision goggles.

The friendly AI spotted the enemy AI, identified him as hostile and started firing on him. Needless to say I couldn't see anything ..

Of course it's entirely possible that fixing this is outside the scope of what can be done with config changes ...

[Namikaze 0]

Is ACE public yet?

Yup!  It's in public beta right now: link

[manzilla 1]

It's been on the front page of this forum section since Xmas.

[scruffy 21]

Okay, I have a different issue now The AI seem to be able to see as well at night as they can in the day.

I tried the same test (friendly AI team mate, enemy AI running around 300 meters away). Except this time I tried doing it at 2am on a moonless night. Making sure that neither AI had night vision goggles.

The friendly AI spotted the enemy AI, identified him as hostile and started firing on him. Needless to say I couldn't see anything ..

Of course it's entirely possible that fixing this is outside the scope of what can be done with config changes ...

That seems to be a problem that appeared with the 1.15 beta patch. I had the same problem, but with an outdated (not yet separated) version of TrueRange Addon. I haven't tested it with the new versions though.

[delta99 34]

<span style='color:red'>When A.C.E. (AdvancedCombatEnvironment) comes out, most if not all the "TrueGameplayMods" will not be necessary, since ACE already adjusts most if not all of these aspects. Even though this pack will give you a good overall gameplay experience, this is in no way close to what will be offered in ACE. So, my full recommendation is to use ACE when it is fully released.</span>

rg7621, is this true with the TrueGamePlay-AI parts of TrueGamePlay?? Those are the most important ones for myself so if these aren't incorporated into ACE I would be inclined to run these in conjunction with ACE.

What is your opinion on this?

[Rg 0]

@Manzilla & Delta99,

To answer your question, the "TrueGameplay-AI" elements should NOT work if trying to run it with ACE, since a few changes within the pbo's themselves would have to be made in order for it to override classes and work correctly. However, ACE does use these AI elements as a framework anyway, but heavily modified. It's best to use ACE as is right now.

@archmoo,

Quote[/b] ]Of course it's entirely possible that fixing this is outside the scope of what can be done with config changes ...

You are correct, sir. While I can modify global elements of AI (In this case, increasing many aspects), I can not adjust anything specific to night (So even though at night, AI ability does decrease (hardcoded), it will still be higher then default with all the other changes I have made).

Since there is nothing that can be done from my end other then toning everything back down which would defeat the purpose of all the changes I made, the best way to deal with night missions is to decrease the AI skill dramatically. While this is far from a perfect solution, you can turn down AI skill via the slider in a mission or use "setSkill" (ranges from 0-1) to tone down AI if you are playing a night mission. A value of 0.05-0.2 (0.2 is the min value when the skill slider is all the way to the left) works decently as far as seeing ability is concerned, but I haven't tested this thoroughly with overall gameplay.

@$cruffy,

Definitely don't use the old beta. If you going to use anything, use this latest release, but again, I can't stress ACE enough.

[archmoo 0]

the best way to deal with night missions is to decrease the AI skill dramatically. While this is far from a perfect solution, you can turn down AI skill via the slider in a mission or use "setSkill" (ranges from 0-1) to tone down AI if you are playing a night mission. A value of 0.05-0.2 (0.2 is the min value when the skill slider is all the way to the left) works decently as far as seeing ability is concerned, but I haven't tested this thoroughly with overall gameplay.

Turning the skill down doesn't work too badly as a broad measure. There are (as you would expect) limitations. The AI can't see you in the dark, but nor can they see you if you stand under a street lamp. They also don't really react to muzzle flash very much.

Still I guess it's well known that the enemy AI is probably the biggest limitation in ArmA from a SP/coop point of view. Hopefully these kind of issues will be fixed in Arma 2

Thanks for your help rg7621, and well done on an excellent mod