KA50 AT Weapon Fix for ArmA 1.14

[HeinBloed 0]

If you don't like the new KA50 AT Weapon "feature" from ArmA 1.14, you can use this little Addon.

Download (1KB)

This Addon changes:

KA50 AT Weapon can not lock on an aircraft anymore.

For full functionality this addon must be installed on server and client.

Required:

Original Version of Armed Assault 1.14

Knowing bugs:

none

[big 0]

Armaholic.com mirror and news:

- KA50 AT Weapon Hotfix

[oldbear 390]

Frontpaged on Armed Assault.info.

Mirror:

http://www.armedassault.info/index...=482

[gwheeler 0]

From an article about the KA-50:

"The 'Vikhr-M' missile can penetrate of up to 900 mm of explosive reactive armor from the maximum launch distance of 10 km, which makes it the most deadly anti-tank missile in service around the world. This remarkable missile can also engage aircraft flying at speeds of up to 800 km/h. Even though the Ka-50 is capable of firing dedicated air-to-air missiles, the air-to-air capability of the 'Vikhr-M' allows to maximize the efficiency of the available maximum 2,000-kg weapons load."

Even taking a conservative view of these performance figures, I would hardly scoff at the missile's capabilities. Seems BIS is just upping the realism factor, which is a big part of why most folks get into ArmA to begin with. Given the technological asymmetry between the US and Russian hardware featured in the game, it's kind of nice to have a weapon that's actually pretty capable on that side... Just a thought, anyway.

[einsena 0]

Realistically speaking the 9K121 Vikhr are able to be employed against air targets. it is able and designed to do so, and no the AGM-65 are not able and was not designed to engage air targets. just in case you were wondering if this can why can't the AGM do it also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT-16_Scallion

Quote[/b] ]The missile is designed to engage vital ground targets, including armoured targets fitted out with built in and add-on explosive reactive armor, at a range of up to 8km when fired from a helicopter and 10 km when fired from a fixed wing aircraft in daytime and up to 5 km at night, as well as air targets in conditions of air defense assets activity.

[Frank-O 0]

What's the big deal? I think BIS added that TOW wiggle to lock-on anyways, so unless you've got solid tone on a low deflection target, you're gonna miss anyways. I always fire 2 at Abrahms anyways to ensure a kill. Maybe to balance it out, you need the air target laser designated by the pilot or a ground LD spotter?

RPG-29 Vampir vs Lockheed/Raytheon Javelin. flintlocks vs snipers.

I'd say each army/airforce has it's strengths and weaknesses.

[einsena 0]

What's the big deal? I think BIS added that TOW wiggle to lock-on anyways, so unless you've got solid tone on a low deflection target, you're gonna miss anyways. I always fire 2 at Abrahms anyways to ensure a kill. Maybe to balance it out, you need the air target laser designated by the pilot or a ground LD spotter?

RPG-29 Vampir vs Lockheed/Raytheon Javelin. flintlocks vs snipers.

I'd say each army/airforce has it's strengths and weaknesses.

I'm afraid it has something to do with this side are suppose to be more superior than that side brainwash propaganda.

[bospor 0]

This is priceless The moment the Russians are starting to get fair treatments from the gaming world, small little addons start popping up to bring the bulls...t back. No, we want the unfair fight!

[Alex72 1]

Arma from start is unbalanced when it comes to weapons and vehicles since US got most of it. Also the addons coming is 90% for the US side. Better tanks, better air, better weapons. And when ther opfor gets some more juice people complain...

Just use the flares addon and it will buy you some extra time to react.

[datakill 1]

ArmA KA-50 needs an ejection seat now.....realism...

[pathetic_berserker 4]

I appereciate that this missile can fire at both AT and AA but all the spec info I can find seems to confirm that for optimum use there are different warheads designed for each type of target.

I don't suppose there is any good realistic way to represent this other than a load out selection.

I wonder if a lot people are quoting 'sale brochers' given the hype. And i also find it curious that the Yanks havn't developed somthing in reply if it realy is that good.

[einsena 0]

I appereciate that this missile can fire at both AT and AA but all the spec info I can find seems to confirm that for optimum use there are different warheads designed for each type of target.

I don't suppose there is any good realistic way to represent this other than a load out selection.

I wonder if a lot people are quoting 'sale brochers' given the hype. And i also find it curious that the Yanks havn't developed somthing in reply if it realy is that good.

no, it's not different warheads, it's different modes. there's impact and proximity detonation mode. the Vikhrs are that good!

as for why the west hasn't counter develop any equivalent systems, i think it's because different countries have different strategies. Americans often develop their systems to be dedicated to a role and excell at it.

Russians on the other hand likes to develop something that are able to do almost everything, but not that great in a particular role. for example Mi-24 Hind, it's a Gunship/Troop/Cargo Helo, it's a able to do those role but not so good compared to a dedicated sytems like KA-50 or Mi-28

[manzilla 1]

It's more priceless how serious this game can be taken sometimes. Realistically speaking, it's not realistic at all. It's damn fun though.

The Vikhr is a bad ass beast. And it is that good. As far as why the Yanks didn't develop a similar system? I promise you they have, we just don't know a thing about it. Hell, it took years to learn about the Vikhrs

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

I don't see any realism if the player/AI can shoot down 6 av8b, 2 a-10 , 1 ah1-z and 2 ah-6 within 15 seconds with the ka-50 ...

I'm glad this fix exists and if not my own clan comrades would have tried to fix it. And no, I don't play public

[HeinBloed 0]

I like realistic very much.

The Vikhr can destroy arcrafts is realistic.

But implementing this feature by only changing one config entry from false to true does not mean the result is realistic. There are consequences wich are anynthing but not realistic.

For example:

The missile missed me, no it did not.

Video (752 KB)

Three enemy choppers on three different directions (270°- 360° - 90°). Each chopper is 2000 meters away from me, and out of my visual sight. I can destroy all choppers within seconds. I don't have to see the target, I don't have to aim on any target. I'm just pressing TAB - MB1 - TAB - MB1 - TAB - MB1.

Video (6,2 MB)

One chopper 500 meters away behind me. TAB - MB1 - killed.

Video (2,1 MB)

There are two effects using this Addon.

1. Addon installed on Server: The Server Ai does not attack flying aircrafts with the Vikhr. Clients can still lock flying aircrafts with the Vikhr.

2. Player side: The Player can't lock flying aircrafts with the Vikhr. Other Players can still lock flying aircrafts with the Vikhr.

Its on you to install this Addon. Players with this Addon don't get any advantage.

[Stavanger 0]

Mirror by ePrison.de

KA50 AT Weapon Hotfix for ArmA 1.14

Regards,

Stavanger

[bospor 0]

Interesting info on possibility of AT rockets against the choppers:

Iraqi Hinds saw particularly heavy action during the Iran-Iraq War of 1980:1988. The gunships were used extensively for ground attack on Iranian troops, inflicting great slaughter and acquiring a fearsome reputation. They were also the first helicopters to engage in serious air-to-air combat with other helicopters, in the form of Iranian AH-1J SeaCobra gunships.

It might not have seemed so at first. In November 1980, not long after the beginning of the war with Iraq's invasion of Iran on 22 September 1980, two Iranian SeaCobras crept up on two Hinds and hit them with TOW wired-guided antitank missiles. One Hind went down immediately, the other was badly damaged and crashed before reaching base. The Iranians pulled off a repeat performance on 24 April 1981, destroying two Hinds without loss to themselves.

Then the Iraqis hit back, claiming the destruction of a SeaCobra on 14 September 1983; three SeaCobras on 5 February 1984; and three more on 25 February 1984. Things went quiet for a time, and then on 13 February 1986 each side lost a gunship. A few days later, on 16 February, a Hind shot down a SeaCobra, with a SeaCobra claiming a Hind in return on 18 February. The last engagement between the two types was on 22 May 1986, when the Hinds shot down a SeaCobra.

The score in the end was 10 kills on SeaCobras and 6 kills on Hinds. The relatively small numbers and the inevitable disputes over actual kill numbers makes it unclear if one gunship had a real technical superiority over the other. It appears that the outcome of the fights was dependent more on the tactical situation and pilot skill than the inherent merits of each machine.

Iraqi Hinds also claimed a total of 43 kills against other Iranian helicopters, such as Agusta-Bell Hueys. One Hind even shot down an Iranian McDonnell F-4D Phantom jet fighter on 26 October 1982, though different sources give conflicting details of the incident.

SOURCE: http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avhind2.html

Vikhr is by far more advanced platform than anything Iranians and Iraqis used in the 80s. So you see, AT rockets engaging the air targets is not so far fetched of an idea. One + goes to BIS! But the fact that you can so easily lock to a target and fire is not a problem with Vikhr in the game, its the Arma's engine. You can TAB eveything so easily! Try flying Franze F-18, the damn thing is a machine gun of missiles even when AI is piloting. One - is for BIS.

[whisper 0]

I like realistic very much.

The Vikhr can destroy arcrafts is realistic.

But implementing this feature by only changing one config entry from false to true does not mean the result is realistic. There are consequences wich are anynthing but not realistic.

For example:

The missile missed me, no it did not.

Video (752 KB)

Three enemy choppers on three different directions (270°- 360° - 90°). Each chopper is 2000 meters away from me, and out of my visual sight. I can destroy all choppers within seconds. I don't have to see the target, I don't have to aim on any target. I'm just pressing TAB - MB1 - TAB - MB1 - TAB - MB1.

Video (6,2 MB)

One chopper 500 meters away behind me. TAB - MB1 - killed.

Video (2,1 MB)

There are two effects using this Addon.

1. Addon installed on Server: The Server Ai does not attack flying aircrafts with the Vikhr. Clients can still lock flying aircrafts with the Vikhr.

2. Player side: The Player can't lock flying aircrafts with the Vikhr. Other Players can still lock flying aircrafts with the Vikhr.

Its on you to install this Addon. Players with this Addon don't get any advantage.

Perhaps preventing the airLock is NOT the correct solution, from what is presented in vids.

Reducing missile agility, OTOH, would help a lot.

[einsena 0]

well Vikhrs are great BUT they're quite labor intensive to deploy!

here's the procedure to employ one on Lomac (AFAIK they modeled it quite accurately)

1. first like the AGM you need to point and ground lock the seeker to the target that you wish to destroy. but unlike the AGM the seeker is built in on the airplane itself the only purpose of seeking it with the planes seeker is to point the laser designator to that point(this takes precious time and attention of the pilot). at this point the Vikhrs are not yet ready to be launched

2. you need to activate the laser designator, this laser designator can not be activated for long periods of time(about 2~3 minutes or so). also after each activation a cool down period is needed in order to use it again without damaging the laser designator.(just like the real US Army laser designator, which is already moded and released by NonWonderDog with his

NWD_RangeFinder)

3. standard procedure dictates that Vikhrs are to be launched in pairs, just in case one of them lost the laser signal from the plane(rarely happens, batter safe than sorry)

4. Vikhrs ARE NOT fire and forget weapons, it's a laser beam rider, which means you need to stay locked on target or the Vikhrs would get lost and self destruct if close enough to ground. this fact paired with the fact that the laser designator is not able to be activated in long periods of time makes it have a huge disadvantage. BUT the Vikhrs when locked properly with the laser designator used wisely are deadly, accurate, fast, and flexible.

what needs to be fixed IMO is to slowdown and limit the current ArmA 1.14 Vikhr locking mechanism. maybe put a delay or something from the point the target is locked and the point where the Vikhrs are able to be fired. this is to simulate needed pilot workload. also limit the time which the KA-50 is able to fire the Vikhrs after activating or locking a target to simulate the laser designator activating and cooling down. man i wish i can make a mod for this lol! just my 2 cents

[Frank-O 0]

Sounds like you guys have provided the spec solution for this missile system.

1. Must lock on and hold lock on air/ground target, until the missile hits or misses the target. No fire and forget system.

2. Time counter for the lock-on period. Accumulated as an overheat factor. When reached 2:30, shuts down. 5:00 to reset.

Sound reasonable?

Similar lock on limitation on the Hellfire, since it's tele-guided or Laser designated. TOW's are optically tracked and wire guided, so option "2" only.

Two modes.

1. Ground LD painted. Fire and forget.

2. Teleguided. must stay locked on target until hit or miss, then next target.

[einsena 0]

1. Ground LD painted. Fire and forget.

2. Teleguided. must stay locked on target until hit or miss, then next target.

mm i don't know about a ground based(spec ops) LD painted targets, but AFAIK Vikhrs does not have this capability.

for one the Vikhr's laser receiver is on the back of the missile facing the launcher platform, the Vikhr then try to orientate its flight trajectory relative to the beamed laser light form the launcher.

also the Vikhr are TV(the TV is for orientating the Laser Designator) AND Laser guided, both systems have to be activated in order to launch a Vikhr, although the TV system are able to be activated indefinitely.

so, sorry for repeating

my suggested approach to the solution is

1.introduce a delay between the moment the target is locked to the moment the weapon is able to be fired (simulating pilot seeking target)

2.introduce a "beaming period" which is a period where the target needs to be locked until it's destroyed or the missile will self destruct.

3.if the accumulated "beaming period" exceeds 2~3 minutes the Vikhrs cannot be fired for 2~3 minutes (simulate laser cool down period).

this, i feel will bring a whole new level of "realism" to the game, the first point would also be applicable to non radar guided AGMs, because the AGM is TV guided and the pilot needs to also seek the target.

i need to learn how to mod lol, i'd really like to see this systems being simulated correctly in ArmA.

[Frank-O 0]

sorry. didn't make it clear.

First set for the KA-50, and change the cool down period to same time as used over 2 min.

Second set for the Cobra/Apache.

[VIPER SHIVA 0]

There are several "Yank" answers to the Vikhr ATGM in development, including:

The APKWS II http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/apkws-i....e-02193

The NAWC/DRS Spike http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app4/spike.html

The Joint Air to Ground Missile http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Air_to_Ground_Missile

and the Joint Dual Role Air Dominance Missile http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2004guns/wed/selfpropelled.ppt

Sorry for the OT...

[Renegade Commando 0]

Could this fix also be added to the Javelin? After all, it's capable of brining down helos and other slow flying A/C at low altitude, thou it was never implemented in ArmA in the first place...

[Alex72 1]

@Einsena

That is a very good idea. This is what i wanted for AI AA/RPG shooters as well. The way AI does all these things is way too fast. Up with the strela/RPG on the shoulder-shoot. Not a second of aiming. Introducing AI aiming (random time delays) when doing these things would make it more realistic.