Problem with AI beeing to good (unhuman)

[Hotkey 0]

Hi all,

im currently searching for a goode playable CTI version for a LAN Party next week.

The main purpose will be to play as Coop against the KI.

I've tested CrCTI OGN yesterday and everything works fine. But the main problem i have (also with other CTI Versions), is that the AI is unhuman like good.

I've played with viewdistance 1500, and i get killed from the AI without beeing able to see them myself.

Example: I'm in an Abrahams and zooming in to find any targets. Then i got 1 hit, second hit and my tank is gone. My AI group members saw the tank, but i was not able to saw him. about half a minute later i saw him then appearing through the "fog".

I've got this problems also with infantry, they see me from far away, even if i'm crouched in the woods. As if this is not enought they always need one shot to kill me. The turn around, go phrone and shoot me right in the head within 2 seconds about 300m away with an AK.

I'm not quite sure if this can be adjusted in the mission, but it would be great if this would be possible. Maybe someone can tell me if the option "Veteran" oder "Cadet" has an affect on the AI's skills, or if its just the "skill" attribute which is assigned in the mission editor?

It would also be good, if the armor of tanks can be adjusted. By default they are gone with one shot. Im not sure if this is realistic, but for fun purposes it would be cool if a tank can absorb at least one hit (with taking damage of course).

Best regards

Hotkey

p.s.

Im currently playing with 1.09 Beta...

[lee_h._oswald 0]

You should download 6th Sense Pack2, which can be found here:

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....t=70993

Use the SIX_Repl_AIAccuracy.pbo and if you want the SIX_Repl_AIRange.pbo

We are playing with those two on our server because fighting against the ak-47 sniper ai isn't that funny.

MfG Lee

[Hotkey 0]

Thanks for the hint, never tried that one. But as reading the post you linked to: Doesn't that make the AI even better then before? Or am i missing something?

[Dallas 9]

Thanks for the hint, never tried that one. But as reading the post you linked to: Doesn't that make the AI even better then before? Or am i missing something?

However I think you may be accustomed to other games, thus bringing your bad habits. You intelligence and reaction speed is far superiour to the AI's, but to avoid chess mate you must be vigilant at all times. You must reflect on concealment when on the move and cover when you engage. The whole key to beating the AI is maintaining initiative. They should not learn about your presence before you engage and always evaluate each encounter. If you have the advantage: Engage! If you don't you can either roll the dice or be forced to disengage and reposition yourself.

In ArmA getting shot at equals what being hit in other games does. You only start to get conserned when you're taking damage. In ArmA when tracers comes your way, you must find cover. Solid cover. Because in ArmA you don't get to hide behind a box, while your health regenerate.

You should really only engage when you've got a good position or if you outnumber the opfor.

The AI was hard before 1.09, but with 1.09 it's better: More challenging, less forgiving. But some still think it's too tame and blind:

Quote[/b] ]TrueRangeAI

by rg7621

Description:

This mod,the first phase of our upcoming AI modifications, will adjust only AI spotting distance and engagement ranges. We were both fed up with the fact that the AI would not engage us (or even see us for that matter) at ranges where we could easily spot, identify, and engage them. We are shooting for realism, and trying to make AI engagement ranges much closer to those of human players.

So, now you have AI that will spot movement much farther away, and become aware of an unknown presence, "Man". As the unknown presence gets closer, they can identify it as friend or foe (this identification is easier with long distance optics or when taking fire). As well as AI that will engage you from 500+ meters away, just as us human players would. Firefights now can last a VERY long time.

Durg and I have spent a lot of time on this mod – some research, but A LOT of testing. Since this is a Beta release, we ask for input from you, the community. Let us know of bugs/problems/suggestions.

Features:

- AI that will spot a man from 550m-800m and identify as a specific unit from 250m-350m.

- AI that will hear gunfire from 1000+ meters away.

- AA units will now engage Jets. (In default ArmA, AI AA soldiers would not fire at Jets, only Helicopters. TrueRangeAI resolves this issue.)

I think it's okay to use cadet mode while you're climbing the learning curve, but personally I enjoy ArmA because of the challenge.

[volkov956 0]

Do like we did we forced 3000 view distance on my server so we now see them when they see us

[BraTTy 0]

If your playing a online server, the view distance is controlled by the mission maker.

Unless there is a script to set clients view distance you have no control. (MP Evolution you can set view distance ingame)

Your view distance in your game settings has no effect

[Maddmatt 1]

...

Disable extended armour? that will make it harder. Turning it on simply increases the amount of damage that human players can take. It leaves AI at a disadvantage.

Of course decent players should turn it off, and turn enemy AI up to normal at least

[Dallas 9]

Heh... My Cadet and Veteran settings are the same, only difference is 3rd person view is enabled and opfor is on normal in Cadet Mode, because it useful in the editor. I always play on Veteran though with Expert opfor and only VON ID enabled.

When I captured the difficulty settings, I switched Normal opfor to Novice and forgot all about enabling Etended Armor. My focus wasn't so much what my settings were, but rather to show where to find witch.

[Trapper 0]

To get rid of the one shot one kill infantry you should edit your own config file for SP and the server config file for MP. - Set precisionFriendly and precisionEnemy to 0.45 for a more OFP like marksmanship. Set skillEnemy/Friendly to 1.0 for best path finding.

[[aps]gnat 28]

However I think you may be accustomed to other games, thus bringing your bad habits. You intelligence and reaction speed is far superiour to the AI's, but to avoid chess mate you must be vigilant at all times.

Yes, I suspect thats more the case. ArmA is closer to a *Battle Simulator* then ... then ... all those other games where its expected you should be able to kill ALL AI on a level without more than 1 missing leg, 2 missing fingers, blured vision and a flashing red health bar on your part.

Remember that in a most modern conflicts (ignoring some scary civil wars etc), casualties are nearer to 1:1. Hence if you managed to kill 3 soldiers (ie kill some AI soldiers) before you were removed from the battlefield (dead or wounded) you might be considered a war hero

But hey, it is a game too I guess

[Hotkey 0]

However I think you may be accustomed to other games, thus bringing your bad habits. You intelligence and reaction speed is far superiour to the AI's, but to avoid chess mate you must be vigilant at all times. You must reflect on concealment when on the move and cover when you engage. The whole key to beating the AI is maintaining initiative. They should not learn about your presence before you engage and always evaluate each encounter. If you have the advantage: Engage! If you don't you can either roll the dice or be forced to disengage and reposition yourself.

In ArmA getting shot at equals what being hit in other games does. You only start to get conserned when you're taking damage. In ArmA when tracers comes your way, you must find cover. Solid cover. Because in ArmA you don't get to hide behind a box, while your health regenerate.

You should really only engage when you've got a good position or if you outnumber the opfor.

Yes, Arma is not a shooter, i know that. I've played Arma/OFP since the demo of OFP.

But it definetely changed. Especially in CTI when you often take long ways to the towns, take an additional 15 minutes to sneak around the town to get a good shooting spot with cover its annoying when you then got shot in 3 seconds.

Sure, i don't know how it would be in real life, but i guess it's not so easy to locate an enemy soldier who shot at you from a distance lying in cover. Esspecially when you are under fire.

But the AI Soldier in Arma doesn't have a problem to go phrone, spot you and shot you with an AK within seconds.

I'm playing the mission on a dedicated server. So does this really work:

Quote[/b] ]Set precisionFriendly and precisionEnemy to 0.45 for a more OFP like marksmanship. Set skillEnemy/Friendly to 1.0 for best path finding.

Does skillEnemy only affect the pathfinding?

Thanks for the answers so far

Hotkey

[Second 0]

From days of OFP i've been wondering what is the idea of AI getting better info from shooter when he actually manages to kill something. I can waste 1000+ bullets at AI's location and yet they are not aware of me, if i don't manage to hit some of them. I put just one bullet to AI then it and it's buddies spots me much better.

[wamingo 1]

Yeah but only if they're grouped or can see eachother. It's not perfect I agree.

[Dallas 9]

Yes, Arma is not a shooter, i know that. I've played Arma/OFP since the demo of OFP.

But it definetely changed. Especially in CTI when you often take long ways to the towns, take an additional 15 minutes to sneak around the town to get a good shooting spot with cover its annoying when you then got shot in 3 seconds.

Sure, i don't know how it would be in real life, but i guess it's not so easy to locate an enemy soldier who shot at you from a distance lying in cover. Esspecially when you are under fire.

But the AI Soldier in Arma doesn't have a problem to go phrone, spot you and shot you with an AK within seconds.

You're not giving the AI enough credit. All good shooting spots are useless unless there's solid cover. It doesn't matter if it takes you three hours to get there, because when the AI gets a bead on you, your position is worthless without something bullit proof. You have to use cover when you engage an enemy period. You'll last way more than 3 seconds, if you do. As long as you're staying prone and not shooting you're virtually invissible to the AI at medium to close ranges. But as soon as you start firing, you're not.

Ever since ~1.07 the AI responds on much longer ranges and wont just stand there and take it, while one lonely sniper kill a whole batallion. They'll kill you, if you continue to present a target, after you've announced your presence. Real life snipers considers three shots from the same position as the very maximum and unsafe under most, but extreme conditions. ArmA more than OFP will punnish you, whenever you're out numbered. If you're taking on a much larger groupe of enemies, you must stay near solid cover and should move positions. I still think your problem is that you haven't adabted to this new enemy, that that you ignore basic safety protocols. Real life tactics dictates that it takes a three to one advantage to succesfully take on an enemy position.

Although the AI doesn't actually use suppressive fire, their barrages do have that actual effect. This is a contradition: Everyone knows that BIS's AI does not use supressive fire, but experienced coop players learns to accept that in order to stay alive, you must allow yourself to be supressed and duck behind cover. In any given youtube/lifeleak video you'll see the natual response on the receiving end. In a matter of seconds those under attack, will retun heavy fire as soon as the lonely gunman reveals himself. He has to take evasive action, either duck or die.

I wish you'd try to adabt to this new reality, that ArmA isn't a turkey shoot no more, instead of lobotomizing the AI.

[njmatrix 2]

lets see ArmA was to be realistic. OK heres a test. take your kid brothers BB Gun or Nerf gun or whatever. map out say 1500 meters and look down the barrel of it at a target and tell me you would be scoring headshots at that range let alone just hitting anything. Its ridiculous the arguements i read in here about how the AI are fine you just gotta adapt to them. Quite trying to justify super Ai when they do need to be tuned down by half at least distance wise. go on live leak and check out every war footage video and you show me 1 video of a 800-25000 meter gun battle. You wont.

[Trapper 0]

Dallas I'm more and more getting the feeling that all those

"I'm playing only on Veteran with expert skill enemies + Super AI on (which turns out to be the same) and it's so much fun because it's so much more realistic!"

players like you are just more showing off than anything else.

Maybe, all your talking makes sense if the only thing you're doing is setting up skirmishes in the editor, following your real life safety measures and tactic rules.

Or maybe you're playing coop missions only, which gives you reliable human squad mates. - By the way, difficulty settings are dictated by the host in MP, so hopefully he's a hotshot like you and starts all rounds with AI at max otherwise you're probably not confronted with what you thought in those game sessions.

I don't believe that you completed any official or custom SP missions at such horrendously settings without save game cheat and frustration. Especially if these missions present a chaotic big battle where your friendly support will fail without your intervention, what's automatically turning you into the number one target.

@Hotkey

You've got to edit the config file containing these settings on the dedicated server. I've got only experience in OFP with that files, but it shouldn't be removed in ArmA.

You should be able to change it two times in that config, for Regular and Veteran mode. So you can create two difficulty modes for a server which can be selected on the fly later by launching a mission either in Regular oder Veteran.

Let me say it like that, enemySkill is for everything not regarding shooting from my observations. E.g. not crushing into houses when driving, beeing more aggressive and not dumb when movement reactions to enemy fire are required...

[Maddmatt 1]

...and you show me 1 video of a 800-25000 meter gun battle. You wont.

I never have gun battles at that distance in ArmA. I'm not sure you're judging distance correctly

I usually have the AI skill level at normal in the difficulty settings and they don't usually shoot better than me or many people I've played with online, except maybe when their skill level in the editor is set high.

[gsleighter 0]

I messed with the skill and precision settings, I like these, you might try them too.

skillFriendly=1.000000;

skillEnemy=1.0000;

precisionFriendly=0.900000;

precisionEnemy=0.230000;

Their aggression, flanking, and pathfinding are all very good, but you get a much larger volume of fire from the enemy. This affects armor, too, and so you get a lot of tank rounds whizzing right by or taking out buildings. This looks great with Six_Tracers and FFAMM, too.

Makes the enemy seem a lot more like the third world conscripts they were meant to be. This also makes many default missions playable. Some of the campaign missions had you against a VASTLY superior force, and now I can play through many of them, even with Truerange AI enabled.

[Dallas 9]

You're exaggerating so you can continue to ignore my point. ArmA was never intented to play like COD4. 800 to 25000(25 kilometers!?) range? At 800 you're safe from infantry, try 400 maybe and that's without concealment and cover.

[bravo 6 0]

You should download 6th Sense Pack2, which can be found here:

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....t=70993

Use the SIX_Repl_AIAccuracy.pbo and if you want the SIX_Repl_AIRange.pbo

We are playing with those two on our server because fighting against the ak-47 sniper ai isn't that funny.

MfG Lee

I just tryed that and their aim was even better. 1 shot and bam.

Though would it work on servers without this addon? :

edit: The fact that Ais kill you the moment they see you its really anoying!

[NeMeSiS 11]

precisionEnemy=0.230000;

You cannot be hit then?

[Trapper 0]

Well, 23 out of 100 times ofpforum.

I've often used ~0.25 or lower AI in OFP Editor when thinking about conscript enemies in missions.

This ArmA menu skill option is what really makes things difficult. In OFP the mission designer tested his idea and saved it. Only difference could be made by SuperAI back in these days, but every player did knew he did something unintended to the mission with it.

Nowadays you've got no idea with what difficulty setting in mind a mission was made.

[bravo 6 0]

so do we have a solution for this problem?

Because this problem is killing the spirit and the game it self

[Trapper 0]

...beside editing your player config file like written above bravo 6?

An enemy precision below 0.5 did a lot for me in this case.

Turning of the grass which doesn't give the ai exactly the same challenge as the player can help, too.

[bravo 6 0]

yes.

I think BIS should be aware of these values, they are simply ridicules. Maybe BIS dont play the game enough to noticed that AI is not acting/reacting normally.

If you guys see better how AI react when they see you, they use full, and not single or bust, to fire at us. They only stop when they kill the target. Now what happened to the AI recoil? They must have very firm hands to old full firing and hiting the same place.. I also noticed that they now don't fire bust or single fire.. they use full till they kill you or the target.

These values should be moderated for the next patch.

I have the feeling that AIs always cheat! They are better, they see better and aim better and faster.. Its really unhuman what they do and eventually destroying the fun.

edit: what i most like in this game is playing coop and making missions.. but i feel the fun fall apart with time..