Interface and control cleanup

[Entelin 0]

The play control in arma needs to be substantially cleaned up if you expect to attract new people to the series, heres a small list of things that need to happen.

pressing up against a ladder should make you start to climb it, double clicking down should trigger the slide down action. You shouldn't have to go into a menu for these basic things.

You don't want a separate button solely for "Stand Up". Hitting crouch once causes you to crouch, hitting it again makes you stand up. Hitting prone once makes you prone, hitting it again makes you stand up. Hitting crouch while prone makes you crouch, etc. There is absolutely no benefit for this separate button and getting rid of it frees up one button around your primary control area.

There should be one button that selects/performs an action. If your pointed at an ammo crate you hit that and you should get "gear", point at the drivers side door of a car and you enter as driver, etc. Point at nothing and it should pop up a menu you can move through with the mouse wheel like it is now. The default option being cancel so if you click it by mistake you can quickly close it. The mousewheel should not bring up the menu, its too easily hit.

You need to add the ability to jump or climb over fences and other obstacles. Now I realize this might be a little "controversial" because of the way some other games have implemented it. However not being able to get over a short little railing that extends halfway through town is very very lame, and for that matter unrealistic. Perhaps the solution as I alluded to would be to make a climbing action which would trigger whenever you pressed up against a steep or short object. So for example on a hill that was getting too steep and you pressed against it you would get down and start to climb it, if you pressed against a wall/fence that was your height or less you would climb over it. Or if you cant do this yet then just give us the ability to jump a little to at least get over these small obstacles. Naturally you wouldn't allow people to fire while this action is taking place.

Fast run and Walk should be changed to a toggle (or give the option) People don't want 3 different keys to hold to go forward at different speeds, the toggle should release when you stop pressing forward. ex: W (now moving forward at the normal run speed), Alt (now fast running forward while W is still pressed, or Alt is pressed again). Moving slow would would in the same way. See America's Army for how this works, they have the most realistic squad vs squad infantry combat currently imo.

The targeting system needs to be extended. The player should be able to configure what kind of targets, and in what areas will be considered hostile. The player should also be able to assign unit type priorities. EX: "In this circled area target AA first, then armour, then infantry", The player should also be able to select different types of target sorting, such as type, faction, and most importantly distance. As far as I can tell Armed Assault doesn't have any particular logic to how things appear on the list, and you cant designate neutral or friendlys as targets. The "more" list has no sorting whatsoever and doesn't list distances. I put 3 unoccupied trucks at difference distances and they appeared in the more list in a completely random order, and due to them not having any distances listed there was no way of actually determining which one I just told my AI to fire at. The information listed about the target should also be configurable. These options should not require the editor, they should be available to the player at any time on any mission.

Correct me if I'm wrong but theres no way of telling your AI pilot what altitude to fly at? (outside of the editor), Kinda important if you intend to order your entire squad to parachute out of the chopper. Flying low is great for avoiding enemy fire, not so great when half your squad turns to pancakes.

I also didn't see any option to tell a squad mate to have his weapon fully ready. I made a map where a truck was heading down a road, and my AI RPG soldier and I were up on a hill, I ordered him to target and then fire on the truck, he stood there doing nothing until the truck was visible, then I watched him as he took out the rpg, got it on his shoulder, stared into deep space for awhile, and then..... oh yeah then he put it away because by the time he got it out the truck was already gone and out of range. If he had his weapon on his shoulder ready to fire he could have hit it. I personally had no issues hitting the truck.

Am I wrong that there is no way to order an AI to do a sequence of things? (in game) like "go here" then "go here" then "gear"

There is no way to directly select a fire-team through a consistent set of key presses. This breaks attempts to use voice recognition to select teams, and regardless is another awkward functioning control. Currently you must shift-click a unit's F key to select the group hes in, course if he dies then your out of luck and you have to change keys again. Apparently this was not an issue in OFP.

Lets be honest here for a sec. The interface is visually ugly, personally I don't care much about this, and I doubt many ofp vets here care either. However if your a new to the game, or playing the demo, an ugly interface combined with all of these other user interface issues will be thought of as verification that "this game sucks". You and I know why this game is cool, but I'll be honist with you, when I was new to the game, playing the demo, I didn't know all it could do, and I forgot about it for about 6 months, only coming back when I wanted to check it out on my new system (remembering some of the pretty screenshots/videos I had seen). I'm glad I did because this time I saw what the game was really all about. However my point is that for every one of me who finally "gets it", theres another 100 out there that could, but dropped it before they got to that point because it didn't feel right or because the GUI looked like it was from X/Motif in 1985. (sorry Motif you know I love you)

"details"

[NeMeSiS 11]

While i agree on most things(Mostly the climbing on fences) i have to comment on 2:

Quote[/b] ]There should be one button that selects/performs an action. If your pointed at an ammo crate you hit that and you should get "gear", point at the drivers side door of a car and you enter as driver, etc.

Press middle mouse button when you see the icon popping up.

Quote[/b] ]Fast run and Walk should be changed to a toggle (or give the option) People don't want 3 different keys to hold to go forward at different speeds, the toggle should release when you stop pressing forward.

Try double tapping shift. (It toggles run/walk for infantry on the default controls)

And a question:

Quote[/b] ]pressing up against a ladder should make you start to climb it, double clicking down should trigger the slide down action. You shouldn't have to go into a menu for these basic things.

What if you walk into a ladder and accidentally start climbing it? Sounds more annoying then usefull IMO. Remember that you cant climb with your weapon in your hands in this game so accidentally climbing ladders would be rather annoying.

[TheJay 0]

Quote[/b] ]Fast run and Walk should be changed to a toggle (or give the option) People don't want 3 different keys to hold to go forward at different speeds, the toggle should release when you stop pressing forward.

Try double tapping shift. (It toggles run/walk for infantry on the default controls)

Don't forget double tapping the W key for the fast run so it's only really one extra key.

[max power 21]

I like the interface.

Also, in terms of controls, you can look at whatever you want to interact with, and usually the most logical option comes up first. If you want to manage your gear instead of having the AI reequip you at an ammo box and you don't want to fish through the menu, you can hit 'G' instead of enter. Usually, when you're trying to get into a vehicle, the most important position comes up first. In trucks, it's the driver's seat. I think that if you try and get in on the passenger side of vehicles with more than one door, the passenger ones comes up first. BI was saying something about location specific vehicle interaction a while ago. I sort of just gravitate towards the seat I want to sit in so I'm not too sure.

[sparks50 0]

The double tap feature in Arma is great, I find myself missing it in other games

[SaBrE_UK 0]

What I don't like is when you double-tap to go fast-forward, you can't go from that to a walk; you have to stop. The control system could be great if polished but I have assigned left ctrl to sprint so I can go from running, to jogging or walking.

[Junker 0]

You need to add the ability to jump or climb over fences and other obstacles.

The V Button helps in this situation :rolleyes:

Wish some people would read the instructions first :D

[frederf 0]

Sabre, they are just key binds, change them! 2xW is only a BIS-suggestion, the keys are editable.

You don't want a separate button solely for "Stand Up". Hitting crouch once causes you to crouch, hitting it again makes you stand up. Hitting prone once makes you prone, hitting it again makes you stand up. Hitting crouch while prone makes you crouch, etc. There is absolutely no benefit for this separate button and getting rid of it frees up one button around your primary control area.

I also don't care if there are 5 keys for lower stance, raise stance, go to standing, go to crouch, go to prone. That's simply more options for people. If you don't like the direct "go to x" stance keys, unbind them and don't use them!

There should be one button that selects/performs an action.

It's called the "Perform Action" command?

If your pointed at an ammo crate you hit that and you should get "gear", point at the drivers side door of a car and you enter as driver, etc. Point at nothing and it should pop up a menu you can move through with the mouse wheel like it is now.

That's exactly how it is now?

The default option being cancel so if you click it by mistake you can quickly close it.

I like this idea.

The mouse wheel should not bring up the menu, its too easily hit.

Then. Change. Your. Control. Settings.

Fast run and Walk should be changed to a toggle (or give the option)

2x Shift toggles walk on and off. Fast run is not something you're supposed to leave on for extended periods.

The targeting system needs to be extended. The player should be able to configure what kind of targets, and in what areas will be considered hostile. The player should also be able to assign unit type priorities. EX: "In this circled area target AA first, then armour, then infantry" The player should also be able to select different types of target sorting, such as type, faction, and most importantly distance.

This would go under some sort of "squad" or "squad member" stance/setup area. This is one of those things that's not super necessary and might be not the best idea to implement.

As far as I can tell Armed Assault doesn't have any particular logic to how things appear on the list, and you cant designate neutral or friendlys as targets. The "more" list has no sorting whatsoever and doesn't list distances. I put 3 unoccupied trucks at difference distances and they appeared in the more list in a completely random order, and due to them not having any distances listed there was no way of actually determining which one I just told my AI to fire at. The information listed about the target should also be configurable. These options should not require the editor, they should be available to the player at any time on any mission.

Agreed that most of the old backspace menu is hoooorriiibly broken, non-functional, and out of date. The target branch is especially bleh. I'd suggest simply getting rid of it completely except for the rare occasion when you can't do something any other way.

Correct me if I'm wrong but theres no way of telling your AI pilot what altitude to fly at? (outside of the editor), Kinda important if you intend to order your entire squad to parachute out of the chopper. Flying low is great for avoiding enemy fire, not so great when half your squad turns to pancakes.

You know a couple of months ago I thought "Hey, BIS would do good to add a Fly>Low, Med, High" option to the orders menu alongside Stealth, Danger, Aware, Safe. Altitude control for AI units has always been very lacking. And lo and behold they didn't read my mind and this rather glaring lack of AI control is missing still.

I also didn't see any option to tell a squad mate to have his weapon fully ready. I made a map where a truck was heading down a road, and my AI RPG soldier...

There actually is an Orders>Action>Weapon RPG (the Action branch basiically gives you access to the AI unit's personal Action menu) option through the interface but the AI doesn't like to keep it out for very long. The old trick for getting better results is to tell the AT gunner to Halt, Hold Fire, target X, wait for "Ready to Fire!" and then order Target>Fire.

Am I wrong that there is no way to order an AI to do a sequence of things? (in game) like "go here" then "go here" then "gear"

There is no command queuing. I think that would make for some much greater command possibilities.

There is no way to directly select a fire-team through a consistent set of key presses.

Orders>Team>Team Red? Does the F-key association automatically collapse now? I thought if F2 in, F1 F2 F3 group dies then you'd have F1 and F3 left behind.

Lets be honest here for a sec. The interface is visually ugly

Agreed. I could post a screenshot with about 30 items circled in red with "See Me After Class." Why are the tag balloons without round corners? Why do the menus have fixed dimensions instead of being just as big as their contents? Why does the chat have ugly squared off rectangular background?

[7 0]

To select a colored team, press shift + any F# button that has a member of that team in it, and it will select the entire team.

[Nicholas 5]

I love the idea to be able to give multiple orders at once. I mean, it's already possible in High Command mode so why not for eveything else? I like the idea of the Spacebar bringing up the more important commands, but there needs to be a simpler, more effective way of bringing up the other one too, instead of needing to take my hands away from my mouse to hit backspace. I still wish you could turn certain parts of the HUD off in the options menu...

[frederf 0]

He knows that, he's saying that Shift+F# button changes if some team members die. Say you had F2, F3, F4 and F5, F6, F7. You'd think that Shift+F4 would select the Red team always, yes? Well if for example F2 dies then it reassigns the groups such that F2, F3 and F4, F5, F6. Now the same voice activation bind that used to select Red now selects Blue (shift+F4).

[CarlGustaffa 4]

My main complaints about the action system is that it is so damned dangerous. Already we've seen people accidentally jumping out of the chopper they are flying because of selecting the wrong action. The addAction command should have a new attributte "dangerous: true/false". If it was laballed dangerous (jump out/trigger satchel), you would have to press a qualifyer key, like shift for example. I haven't played Arma2 yet, but I'm sure it's the same deal.

The targetting menu simply doesn't work, for the reasons already mentioned. Let us have to confirm the target by pressing the number for a second time. The first time you press, you get a visual indication on screen complete with approximate distance. Or remove it completely and let us rely only on the new ways (commanding mode). A new player will laugh in shame with the old method.

I thought you could climb fences already, or so called 'low obstacles'. Anything more than that, I think I would prefer a mission/script approach. We're soldiers, not mountain climbers. This solution, although not fully believable I admit, was already used in Arma1, and you get to control who can do it.

For formation purposes, the teams you setup are bad. You should setup all reds on even numbers, and all blues on odd numbers. That way you get reds on your right side and blues on your left side (if in a wegde formation).