Wind Turbines For or against & why?

[Iron+Cross 0]

So what do you think?

there are many pro's & cons but some of these types of power can be forced on one community by another, whats your view?

[Sennacherib 0]

against, because that doesn't produce enough energy, and that destroys the landscape and the life of a lot of species (birds, insects...)

near the place where i live, there are a lot of these shits. and this is useless. only the investors win something because the national electricity company buys the electricity produced by the wind turbines.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

There are a large number of Turbine popping up all over London. Personally I don’t mind them at all but I can see why people in the country side wouldn't like them. In an urban setting they are just another bit of manmade furniture. But in a rural setting they do stand out rather dramatically.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

I've heard somebody wants to put such turbines in the North Sea... How stupid can that be? It takes just one of those mega-waves and the turbines are history... not to speak of how much bird life is claimed by the monster props... No, definitely Solar panels are better, and something else you forgot to add, although it's still not perfect yet, tidal-force harnessing... That is going to be great!

P.S.: I'm from an urban setting...

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]I've heard somebody wants to put such turbines in the North Sea... How stupid can that be? It takes just one of those mega-waves and the turbines are history...

To your surprise there are already large fields working in the north sea. There are already islands that are totally independant of regular energy sources because of that and Denmark in the long run will have 50 % of it´s energy provided by offshore fields.

Freakwaves or Megawaves as you call them are unlikely in that region and building the fields about 20 km´s from the shore in deep water does actually make things easier and more safe than building them on land or near the shore where waves build up as the water is meeting ground, while in deep water high waves are much more unlikely. Additionally there are already concepts for floating wind turbines that are almost immune to waves and as a benefit do orientate themselves towards the wind.

Today Denmark is already producing 25-30 % of their electricity with Wind turbines, which is quite a number imo.

I do not really go ok with the poll selections though as only a combination of renewable energy creation will be the deal and every country has a different setting, so there is no real "way" applyable to every country. Photovoltaic is a nice gadget but by now the efficency of the modules is rather low, still the effort is what counts.

Seriously, we have no problems accepting 10.000´s of polluting flights with aeroplanes, but we object to windfarms that do not pollute at all.

Humans are weird.

Fossile fuel is limited and running out oneday. Additionally fossile fuel pollutes. It pollutes when it is raised, it pollutes when it is used and it pollutes when it is burned.

Nuclear energy is no problem-solver aswell. It´s just too expensive and unreliable. Additionally the remains of nuclear fuel will be there and active for thousands of years. The final storage of the remains is a huge problem and the power plants are not safe at all as we´ve seen in numerous incidents. I don´t trust the nuclear lobby anymore. There were too many coverups and accidents already that in some parts changed the face of the earth already.

Wiki page with lots of info and ressources on renewable energy sources.

[Iron+Cross 0]

Quote[/b] ]Seriously, we have no problems accepting 10.000´s of polluting flights with aeroplanes, but we object to windfarms that do not pollute at all.

Humans are weird.

Well i wouldent accept flights over my land but unfortunatly i cant claim my Air rights & declare a no fly zone, government wont let me, even though i should own the land under my land to the core & the air above my land till upper atmosphere.

Although some people have done it, for instance outside of Dublin International Airport, the owner of one airline was refused licence to fly his airline into Dublin, But his house was under the flight path & a Direct competitor of his had jets flying over his house so he claimed Air rights & a settlement was reached where his company could fly in.

(even though the Air & transport agency said they had prority he could have caused trouble)

As for no pollution thats not true.

if you lived UNDER one you would know that is causes.

Eletromagnetic Interferance, whith radio's, TV's.

It can also make you feal sick, it dose actuly kill birds i dont know why people say its a mith because it dose, you ever seen a swarm of starlings? they are nippy but not enough if a gust picks up (not nice)

Its Noisy.. & a real constant sort of drone.

It stops things like Shooting in the area so if you have shooting rights or a zone set up on your land & one of em gets put up you cant do that any more.

its an eyesore because its an industrial power generator stuck in the country side no way around it.

Also alot of people dont have a CHOICE, which is mainly rural communities, which under the human rights charters should be illegal discrimination against an minority.

as for Photovoltic solutions well have you tried doing the maths?

have a go take an High spec panel with low light conditions during winter time, then use this calculator to see how much you use. Power usage calculator EASY

& be libiral (if you can) then see how many solar panels you would need, & calculate the cost v your current bill, i tried it twice & i run 3 computers 24hrs so its a beefy draw.

It worked out for me at about 19,000 euro's (thats a one of bill per 35 years say) which is great for me any ways, now i just have to get round to doing  it  

I made that calculation based on price of good panels i found on ebay, that met the power output in bad weather that  i needed + batteries, it left me with a large surplus of power during the summer months when i calculated it,

& also  a reasonable reserve during winter, with heating on 24hrs a day.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Eletromagnetic Interferance, whith radio's, TV's.

That´s not really polluting the environment. Apart from that I don´t see how this should be happening at all, neither have I ever read about such. I guess electricity cables on masts can do such, but they are everywhere and masts for cellphones do such by the nature of their emissions but linking this up to wind-turbines is dubious imo.

Quote[/b] ]It can also make you feal sick, it dose actuly kill birds i dont know why people say its a mith because it dose, you ever seen a swarm of starlings? they are nippy but not enough if a gust picks up (not nice)

Cough, cars kill birds in large numbers, so do aeroplanes, so does smoke pollution by fossil fuel, so do pestizides, so do herbizides...I guess the kill-ratio of windfarms is somehow neglectable in that context.

Quote[/b] ]Its Noisy.. & a real constant sort of drone.

They are already working on that issues and I am pretty confident that there will be much more silent mills in the near future as it was with helicopter blades and such.

Quote[/b] ]It stops things like Shooting in the area so if you have shooting rights or a zone set up on your land & one of em gets put up you cant do that any more.

its an eyesore because its an industrial power generator stuck in the country side no way around it.

Now that´s what I call a real deficit....

Sorry, but did you get that the alternatives are much more harming the environment ?

Almost every piece of land where humans settled on has been constantly changed by humans, or do you think major cities have been here by default ? Skyscrapers, electricity wires, rails, bridges, houses, roads, agricultural fields, even grown woods....all that doesn´t ring the alarm bells in you ? Well, maybe it´s because you are used to them. Take your time to get used to windmills. You will have to as fossile fuel is running out.

And I certainly prefer to look at a windmill than to look at a dirty coal power plant.

Quote[/b] ]as for Photovoltic solutions well have you tried doing the maths?

Sure, I have one on the roof of my second house. In germany there was/is the 100.000 roofs program. Government finacially supports the useage of solar panels on rooftops and guarantees a certain price for the electricity sold by owners of such installations. There are a lot of downsides though. The electricity can´t be stored, the efficiency of the panels degrades over time, the room you need to get serious output is not enough even if every roof in germany had one, the remains of the panels are toxic...

By the way, the costs you calculated are a bit off. Have you kept in mind that you need house installations changed, special electricity modules and a converter plus new cables to deliver your energy ? For a 36 panel installation like I have you have to pay about 45.000 Euro. This is meant for a 4 people household with overproduction going to electricity supplier.

On a sidenote: What do you want to do with the batteries you mention ?

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I'm of course for wind power. Infact, the energy used at this computer i'm typing this, was generated through wind-power.

As i'm from Denmark, i'm pretty used to see windmills over the country sides, so I don't really see them as ugly.

I can see a few myths and weird arguments against them, though.

New windmills doesn't really make any noise. We recently had windmills which is 100 metres high and with 50 metres per wing (100 metres in diameter). You cannot hear the generator from ground, you can only hear the winds ressistance against the wings. 200 metres away from the windmill it is completely silent for the human ear.

The noice is even lower with smaller mills (new ones). Granted, the old ones had some noisy generators, but that is ancient history .

I have never seen one single bird killed from a windmill - if it's such a big problem, why come I have never seen any dead birds around windmills? Do they magically disapeer? I'm pretty sure the mills doesn't kill more birds than your average window in your house does - or your car for that matter.

Electromagnetic pollution? Come on, man! Youve got to be kidding me. Sure it's high voltage, but it's not dangerous for you. It's a simple generator. I'm 110% sure that you are more affected by electromagnetism standing next to your turned on computer (or by having a cellphone in your pocket), than standing next to the biggest windmill you can find.

Besides, electro magnetism isn't dangerous to biological tissure. Just look at your local hospital using MR scanners with up to 3 tesla magnets. Now THAT is some serious buttkicking electro magnetism. And still - no sideeffect have ever been seen.

As I am from Denmark, we, as a country, have always had tradition to use wind for our energy source. Back when we were vikings, the wind was used to transport ships. Watersports using wind is very popular here, as we do HAVE alot of wind in some places here. I myself is a kite surfer enthusiasts, and love to do just that. I guess that is why windpower is such a natural selection for us people.

Btw. Balchoiw, you are a bit wrong in your numbers though. In 2020, the goal is 75% of Denmarks eletricity usage to be wind-powered, not 50%.

Cheers.

[Balschoiw 0]

50 percent is meant in relation to offshore fields Espectro

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

50 percent is meant in relation to offshore fields Espectro

Ahh, sorry. My fault

[Iron+Cross 0]

Quote[/b] ]That´s not really polluting the environment. Apart from that I don´t see how this should be happening at all, neither have I ever read about such. I guess electricity cables on masts can do such, but they are everywhere and masts for cellphones do such by the nature of their emissions but linking this up to wind-turbines is dubious imo.

the sort of Interance i get on mine is like a line that drifts through the picture when im within 100m of an 150ft tall turbine "farm". same sort of band but i can get all the channles, it just has a band that runs through it & its not like that further away.

I also get a crackling on my radio that surges when @ about 150-100m

& acording to the FAA

Quote[/b] ]"As a modern windmill spins in a breeze, its blades turn an electric turbine, which uses an electromagnetic field to create electricity. That field, if large enough, can radiate for miles and disrupt radio transmissions of all kinds. "

They can also Warp radar signals & put up false images thats why they arent aloud to be built within 15 miles of an airport acording to the FAA... hmm so if it can WARP  an 300KW Military Radar system, what about 50kw maratime radars, or Our eletrical equipment?  like life saving maritime SART's or EPIRB's, im not sure what they use for air trafic, but from a qualified Communications & Radar operator's point of view, thats a DANGER.

Also when i put my m8's phone next to my computer (and she is a big girl hehe, its the phone that makes the crackleing noise on my computer not the other way round.

As for health reasons yeh it causes somthing called carcinogenesis, although this is not lethal on such a small level it can build up over a long period & lead to rapid spreading carcinogenic cells in your blood stream, & once it gets a foot hold the rest is luck where it hits you. (edit God forbid)

It is also i guese not so widly known that MF's can & dose cause Insomnia & other behavioral changes, as thats what your brain uses, same as TV Organisations they dont all use the same band width because it will screw up, well same is for your brain im afraid.(so how long did you say you lived near one?) hehe

Quote[/b] ]Cough, cars kill birds in large numbers, so do aeroplanes, so does smoke pollution by fossil fuel, so do pestizides, so do herbizides...I guess the kill-ratio of windfarms is somehow neglectable in that context.

I have never seen one single bird killed from a windmill - if it's such a big problem, why come I have never seen any dead birds around windmills? Do they magically disapeer? I'm pretty sure the mills doesn't kill more birds than your average window in your house does - or your car for that matter.

My Sister Works with the protection of Birds & Bats, they are the ones who pick them up & log it.

But if you like the idea of birds "disapeering" then go for it...

Quote[/b] ]They are already working on that issues and I am pretty confident that there will be much more silent mills in the near future as it was with helicopter blades and such.

Cool, but I hear Helicopters every now & then & they dont seem quieter specialy the military one's infact i'd sware they were louder than the civy ones. (so how longs this quiet roter tech been around?)

Its the same as Airlines m8, they have teh tech to makeem real quiet i know saw one at an airshow, but they wont get round to it fully, because its only the Minority who have to live under it, & complains.

So unless its a financial issue they wont do anythign about it, cheap & cheary is most corporate moto's im afraid.  

Quote[/b] ]Now that´s what I call a real deficit....

Sorry,

i dont understand this sentance now im not a good speller but i just dont sorry.  

Quote[/b] ]did you get that the alternatives are much more harming the environment ?

Almost every piece of land where humans settled on has been constantly changed by humans, or do you think major cities have been here by default ? Skyscrapers, electricity wires, rails, bridges, houses, roads, agricultural fields, even grown woods....all that doesn´t ring the alarm bells in you ? Well, maybe it´s because you are used to them. Take your time to get used to windmills. You will have to as fossile fuel is running out.

And I certainly prefer to look at a windmill than to look at a dirty coal power plant.

I own some woodland wich i expect to clearfell in about 20 yrs, & they are certinly NOT windmill's & i dont have a problem with farmed forestry because its good for the environment, looks, Feals nice, & i was reading an E.U analasys about how much Farmed forests contribue yearly per Acre/Ha, its about Net 255,000.00 euro, so im damnd good to the people who live near to my land   (they breath my Oxygen/Nitrogen, hey well if they can force windmills on us then maybe i could tax my air per ton hehe jk maybe even add a little Methane if ive been on the beens LOL )

Quote[/b] ]Sure, I have one on the roof of my second house. In germany there was/is the 100.000 roofs program.

Cool    did you get the colord one?

i'd want pink just to piss of the planning dept.

Quote[/b] ]The electricity can´t be stored, the efficiency of the panels degrades over time,

uhm dood im not sure what your install guy told you, but i have a protable solar Charger for my Creative Zen video/music player....  & it err charges in 6 hours on a cloudy day 3-4 on a good day.

also when i was working out the cost of all the parts for a DIY job Solar powerd home (which i passed by my brother who is an electrician)

I planned to store it in a semi submerged Concrete Battery room outside in DC, then convert it to AC for indoor use, or even just buy DC apliances, you can buy almost everything for DC now, Firdges PC's etc.

As my brother told me DC is only good for short range wire transfers where as AC is much better for long range transfers, although he said it wiggles down the line more than flows.. (never understood that)

Quote[/b] ] panels degrades over time

yep but if you buy some of the Quality panels, they will last up to 60 years at 80% efficiance with a 35 year Gaurente on some of them.

Also its less intrusive, quiet, less EMF stuff (apart from the battery box altough i planned to line that with mesh & a light led lining) & i think more reliable & cheaper DIY of ocurse.

& To answer your question m8 it wasent 30+ panels  for some quality high grade panels it was only about 6-8 if i remember corectly (but they were prety big) Also I went round all my apliances i even picked apart my Computer(s) & Calculated each parts draw, along with light bulbs & all. & then used realistic time periods to multiply the draw per hour each item is hooked up, & it wsent that bad As i only buy Energy conserving items.

But thanks for the info & point of view, can you tell me more on hwo your set up works, do you get it pumped out or do you use it yourself? confused i am.

[Gisen 0]

Iron cross; please don't talk about things you don't understand.

ALL devices that use electricity and or magnetism - including human brains, for example- have an electromagnetic field around them; there is nothing special about wind turbines.

Wind turbines show up on radar because they are large, moving objects that are radar reflective.

Carcinogenesis simply means the formation of cancer. Again, nothing special about wind turbines that cause it; you're just being ignorant. Burnt toast is more carcinogenic.

In short, you're just repeating total bullshit myths about electronic sensitivity that have absolutely no basis in fact; and EVEN IF they did, there is nothing special about wind turbine generated electricity compared to electricity generated by any other means.

I deliberately have not posted my own views on which generation method is best because I just want you to realise what utter crap you are talking.

[Daniel 0]

Until new technology arrives or a method of getting rid of radioactive waste all together is created, I'm for almost any type of renewable energy. I can see three windfarms from my town, one in the Irish sea, and I live in the Lake District. I much prefer to have giant white spinning things on the horizon than the radioactive waste underground all over the world.

On a side note, we have two wind turbines in our Tesco car park for powering the supermarket. And they chop up quite a lot of seagulls. There have even been instances of kids chucking bread under the turbines to get seagulls cut up. Bit nasty really, they should probably put a cowling round them or something more obvious to disuade the birds from getting diced.

[Supah 0]

Windmills suck! They deliver power when you least need it and when you do you can't increase their output like you can with more traditional power suppliers. Also as a person from a rural community, photographer, private pilot and allround genius I think they fuck up the countryside. Fly over Ost-Friesland (norther germany) and there is one almost every 100 meters. It's awfull. Nuclear is the future!

[CAS]Daniel: Those children are sick little bastard, probably raised by even sicker large bastards, and I hope something they love very much, like a pet or something, suffers the same fate soon. They seem to have no respect for life so why have respect for theirs? But that's just the teacher in me speaking ofcourse.

[Iron+Cross 0]

I wont reply to it the one who posted before thee Daniel but hey thats funy i should have thought of that. (the bread thing)

I can see it now Tesco's cruelty to birds  

& a new Junior Skinnhead activity,

rite up there with Burning those suposedly nonflamable Bus stops,

And honing those Anti-Tank Rifle skills with a BB gun from a tower of flats at an OAP in a mobility scooter  

as for

Quote[/b] ] I much prefer to have giant white spinning things on the horizon

On the Horizon aint so much a problem m8,

its when its over you like a 300lbs woman you thought was a size 8 when you were drunk..   + they generaly dont ask if its ok with you if they can build one...

ARG!

[baddo 0]

Of course "windfarms" pollute too... You forgot the designing, manufacturing, installation and maintenance.

I would personally start to look for other means than wind turbines, they are not even nearly as effective enough to be suitable for large-scale energy production compared to for example nuclear power. The problem is that on some spots on the world they might work but on a whole lot more places they do not work effectively (you need the wind and sometimes it's just not available).

Positives / negatives as I see them (no sources to give to prove my claims, just based on what I've learnt from various sources and how have I interpreted the information):

Wind turbines

+ low pollution while on duty

+ low-risk solution to energy production (except when there is no wind)

- need too many of them to create enough energy ---> expensive!

- Isn't feasible in many places! Is good only when you have enough wind available. Coasts in Finland for example, but not in inland. And hey we are not going to clutter our whole coastline with wind turbines!

Solar panels

+ low pollution while on duty

+ low-risk solution to energy production (except when there is no sunshine)

- need too many of them to create enough energy ---> expensive!

- Sun doesn't shine enough in Finland during a year to make this usable in large scale! Basically not good at all for our energy production, just visit us in Winter and see how much light we get from the sun. I'm sure Finland is not alone with this problem when it comes to solar panels.

Nuclear power

+ Low pollution while on duty. Yes I do think like this. There is the radioactive nuclear waste but we can control that very well compared to for example the combustion gases coming out of burning charcoal and fuels like gasoline and diesel. We can put nuclear waste into a small container and put it into a safe location. We can't do that to combustion gases as far as I know, and those end up in the nature's lungs and eventually make it very sick, as has been proven.

+ Cheap energy production! Yes it's cheap, compare the cost of building a new nuclear power plant and the costs of building wind turbines/solar panels/whatever which provide as much energy as the nuclear power plant. In Finland it was determined that we simply couldn't afford other means and went for building a new nuclear power plant, and even more might follow as we are trying to drastically reduce our need to import energy from Russian nuclear power plants, and from Scandinavian, water only? unreliable power plants.

- Nuclear waste storage problem. In Finland we have very very solid rock underneath us, thus providing a good place to store nuclear waste. But not everywhere it is like here.

- People need to actually know what they are doing in nuclear power plants, or disaster might follow. I trust my fellow countrymen enough for the job, but I don't trust some other nations not even nearly as much.

The fossile fuels that are burned deserve a mention that I hope we can stop using them as soon as possible. Everything that gets burned and creates combustion gases into the sky are bad. It is an unfortunate thing that it is not likely that combustion gases would reduce in the near future, as some countries (China as one example) are developing fast and need to burn even more fossile fuels for their growing energy production needs.

I would research more how the oceans can be used. There are already working power plants which transform the kinetic energy of the oceans into electric energy. This is interesting and should be looked more into. But I am afraid this can't compete with nuclear power plants either, as there is the problem that you would likely need a lot of them to produce as much energy as a single nuclear power plant can produce, like is the case with wind turbines/solar panels.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

The problem with nuclear again is that nuclear fuel isn't cheap, it's a fuel that's not renewable AFAIK...

But I'd also prefer any water-kinetics-driven powerplant over any wind turbine, because it most probably won't kill fish compared to wind turbines which kill birds... Plus any such water plant would be out of sight, so as to not ruin the countryside view...

[opteryx 1562]

Solar panels won't be effective enough until you can perfectly align nano crystals that can absorb the entire light spectrum.

[Iron+Cross 0]

Quote[/b] ]won't kill fish compared to wind turbines which kill birds

you forget if you use thise water style snake generators it might kill the whales..

this one died on the job thinking one of your ECO wave power generators was a female ...he got it stuck.. .. you people only think of CRUEL things to make power BAD people

[Sennacherib 0]

i'm an ecologist, but like i said the wind turbines are not a good solution for a big country. denmark: 9 million persons, USA: 280 million persons, France: 62 million persons. And in france for example, the number of inhabitants by kilometer is important.

THIS is more efficient in my opinion. And that can create some additional jobs.

other links:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf....ss.html

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/biomass/ (yeah even in the USA, they work on the biomass)

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/biomass/biomass_basics_faqs.html

http://www.nrel.gov/learning/re_biomass.html

btw this is not an utopia. the biomass is used to create electricity in Sweden and Brazil (technology was provided by Sweden).

[Iron+Cross 0]

Yeh not so good if your trying to sell timber at a good price..

But it dose sound like a good alternative for the power guzeling urban communities, & the rural communities benifit by providing somthing they dont need sounds good.

I have heard about this before on a radio program but the nuclear promotor was better with words than the biomass guys, but it dose sound good as the fumes can be filterd he explained how you can even burn the filters afterwords & the left overs made some kind of usable biproduct in the industry, was it carbon?? cant remember.

nice alternative D@ante

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Quote[/b] ]won't kill fish compared to wind turbines which kill birds

you forget if you use thise water style snake generators it might kill the whales..  [omg]http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9gnMikQVuhGFhAANDOjzbkF/SIG=11sn15o4c/EXP=1189717904/**http%3A//www.anon.org/images/deadWhale.jpg[/omg]

this one died on the job thinking one of your ECO wave power generators was a female ...he got it stuck.. ..    you people only think of CRUEL things to make power BAD people  

Since this type of power-plant is still undergoing development, I'm sure by the time it will be widespread the final model will take this... accident into account and be built as so it won't happen again...

[Iron+Cross 0]

[Daniel 0]

Like I said, my biggest problem with nuclear power is the storage of large amounts of nuclear waste. How many storage facilities are near fault lines? What's the chance of major seismic activity before the waste decays?

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Also when i put my m8's phone next to my computer (and she is a big girl hehe, its the phone that makes the crackleing noise on my computer not the other way round.

You are aware that a cellphone is by it´s nature meant to send signals and frequently communicates with the mobile cell you are currently registered with ? Your computer doesn´t send signals like that, still it´s permanently emitting measurable elctrosmog. I guess you mix some things up here that are not to be mixed up from a logical point of view.

Quote[/b] ]As for health reasons yeh it causes somthing called carcinogenesis, although this is not lethal on such a small level it can build up over a long period & lead to rapid spreading carcinogenic cells in your blood stream, & once it gets a foot hold the rest is luck where it hits you. (edit God forbid)

It is also i guese not so widly known that MF's can & dose cause Insomnia & other behavioral changes, as thats what your brain uses, same as TV Organisations they dont all use the same band width because it will screw up, well same is for your brain im afraid.(so how long did you say you lived near one?) hehe

Again, you mix things up that are not to be mixed up. I guess you need to look up the differences between electromagnetical emissions, the power of the signal and pulsed microwave signals.

You are talking of a totally different pack of sox here.

Quote[/b] ]My Sister Works with the protection of Birds & Bats, they are the ones who pick them up & log it.

Cool, now can we have some solid numbers with a link pls ?

Quote[/b] ]Cool, but I hear Helicopters every now & then & they dont seem quieter specialy the military one's infact i'd sware they were louder than the civy ones. (so how longs this quiet roter tech been around?)

Developement started early, during the vietnam war.

Again, you have to see that there is a difference between civil and military choppers. The payload for military hoppers is much higher than for civil ones, therefore they have to use a different set of rotors. The length of the blade is a factor here. Long blades have a high speed at the tips. Very basically said, the longer the baldes are the more the noise will be the rotor creates. If you compare a Bell UHD-1 with a Bell OH-58D you will hear a significant difference. Airfoils, blade planforms, and tip shapes are chosen which mitigate the effects of HSI (High Speed Impulsive) noise and BVI (Blade Vortex Interaction) noise. For a given design gross weight, increasing the blade chord and changing the number of rotor blades are means of reaching an acoustically desirable rotational tip speed. The blade number change also alters the frequency distribution of the sound generated.

Of course this is only partially applyable for wind-turbine-blades as they are not powerded by any machine, but the basic principles apply to them aswell. Apart from that there are already wind turbines for the use in urban scenarios that have a totally different setup and no longer rely on blades. but use some kind of sails. Technical progress and design is bound to the numbers of windmills built. The more are built, the faster the progress is.

Quote[/b] ]Its the same as Airlines m8, they have teh tech to makeem real quiet i know saw one at an airshow, but they wont get round to it fully, because its only the Minority who have to live under it, & complains.

It´s a matter of money. A plane has a lifetime and the costs for planes and/or turbines are incredibly high, so from a financial point of view the plane has to run for a certain time unchanged to make money. It isn´t comparable to wind-turbines anyway as we are talking of a completely different set of technical aspects here aswell.

A good example are more silent Turboprops. The modifications that have to be done to reduce the sound emissions of a Turboprop are not that costly and are done by airlines or charter companies as it raises the level of comfort for the passengers.

Quote[/b] ]So unless its a financial issue they wont do anythign about it, cheap & cheary is most corporate moto's im afraid.

Wrong again, it´s about big public acceptance aswell, if there is no acceptance the public will turn it´s back on that kind of technology. You are comparing apples with stones, as the costs of wind-turbine blades are in no way comparable to the costs of new jet-engines.

Quote[/b] ]I own some woodland wich i expect to clearfell in about 20 yrs, & they are certinly NOT windmill's & i dont have a problem with farmed forestry because its good for the environment, looks, Feals nice, & i was reading an E.U analasys about how much Farmed forests contribue yearly per Acre/Ha, ....snip

This actually has very little to do with what I posted. You missed the point I guess.

To make it simple:

Humans have changed the face of the earth constantly. Do you think the generation that witnessed the first highways and autobahn´s felt easy about them ? Still, they are here today and noone ever could imagine that a world without highways and autobahn´s could actually work. It´s about time people get used to the 21st century landscape changes.

Quote[/b] ]Cool did you get the colord one?

i'd want pink just to piss of the planning dept.

Wouldn´t be that smart, don´t you think ?

Quote[/b] ]uhm dood im not sure what your install guy told you, but i have a protable solar Charger for my Creative Zen video/music player.... & it err charges in 6 hours on a cloudy day 3-4 on a good day.

Quite amusing, but still you have to bear in mind that you actually do not use the generated power for your own house right now. It´s much more efficient to sell the generated electricity to a provider. In about 20 years I will think about using it for the house, but right now it would only make little sense. I earn much more by selling it, than by using it on my own.

Quote[/b] ]a semi submerged Concrete Battery room outside in DC

Did you plan how big that room had to be ? Did you think about the costs of the batteries needed to conserve the energy and did you keep in mind that the cycles of charge and discharge are rather limited ? From a cost/efficency side this will be a no-brainer, unless you only want to run a camping-fridge.

Quote[/b] ]But thanks for the info & point of view, can you tell me more on hwo your set up works, do you get it pumped out or do you use it yourself? confused I am.

It works good, but it has to be maintaned every year wich is aswell a cost-facor. Right now I´m selling all the electricity generated. In about 11 years I will have earned the costs and then It will start to produce money.