Lawsuit against cheating scum?

[The Susser 0]

Virtual Terrorism.

disclaimer. I do not hack so please don't throw that in. I just felt compelled to comment.

Yes that was a bit extreme except when it comes to locking one out of their own server. Now that just goes too far.

Come on now, your attitude suggest that no you dont hack according to how they describe what they do, but Im sure your a script kiddy.

Lol the only scripts I use are the ones in the editor. Like mandos and daddls lest not forget kegetys.

Predictable that an accusation would follow. I am not defending hackers just stating that terrorism is something which is completely different.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Its a crime Report it

First of all crashing a server or any DNS activity that reduces its availability or causing its data to be corrupted is criminal law not civil.

You don't need a lawyer, just report it as a crime to your police. This means it costs you nothing

There is usually a specialist group in your country of origin that deals with Cyber crime, in the US I believe it comes under homeland defense. You can just report it to your local police but you may feel happier reporting it to your countries Cyber crime department.

In the US

http://www.ic3.gov/

In the UK.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-v....t-crime

In the Netherlands

http://www.meldpuntcybercrime.nl/english_information.html

Secondly conspiring with others to partake in the activity is conspiracy this usually twice or more the jail time.

Thirdly organisations that encourage others to partake in the activity and provide resources to do so are organising cyber crime, organised crime also comes under additional laws in the US it is the RICOH Act

Fourthly any organisation such as Youtube or KFC's web space provider that allows its resources to be used for the support of criminal activity is aiding and abetting, criminal law again.

Fifthly Youtube or KFC's web space provider and any download location providing downloads of the cheats is legally liable so you can sue them if the do not take down the offending materials, a simple email and legal letter from lawyers is usually sufficient to get the website closed down and all KFC movies removed.

Sixthly A class action is probably the way to go if they do not obey. It would mean big bucks for any lawyers who brought the action, you should have all the ambulance chasers queuing up to do it and they will do it on a no win no fee basis.

Seventhly there is no such thing as anonymous on the net. Tracking the IP of any cheater is easy because of the amount of time they have to be connected for.

Building a case

Your First course of action is contacting the police of the country of each of places of residence of your clan members and most importantly your game server country of location and report the KFC website to the police, CC the letter to your Local political representative.

Tell the police about the KFC's website and their front page boilerplate go through it with their Lawyer you will be surprised to learn that their attempt at a boilerplate on their site is the most superb evidence against them When I read it I was amazed at how naive it was.

Secondly record all activity and IP addresses with time of assault. A weeks activities should be enough but a months activity logs would be better, a legal witness such as lawyer and computer expert witness are all that are needed, FRAPS and your web server logs are needed.

Your web server provider has logs going back years as a customer you have rights to those logs.

Thirdly report the activity to your ISP they can then with police help log the activity. You may need to warn your clan members that you are logging server activity a simple boilerplate in the server onjoin is enough but check with the police.

Fourthly report the activity to CERT as a DNS activity this gets international police and cyber crime involved.

All the clans and ideally the game producers and developers need to join together to do this at the same time. November 5th 2007 would be a good date to all contact ISP's, Police, Lawyers, Politicians, and Media. But start the ball rolling by contacting you police service now. The sooner the police start investigating the better. On November 5th 2007 a mass of people emailing the police to question what they have done since you reported the crime will create a buzz.

A nice pro-forma letter or email is needed that includes the nature of the crime and evidense the KFC's bolierplate PDFed aand screen shot a signed afidavit sayin when it was taken and website is the best evidense to begin with. A lawyer taking a copy would be good but the police visiting the site and taking their copy is best. Then start adding in logs FRAPS witness statments etc.

That is a basic plan of action I am sure others will contribute.

Why not distribute the plan to all game sites?

Kind Regards walker

[jerryhopper 285]

anyway my option to Victor's post and this whole lawsuit agenda

first the attacker (e.g. crashing server or booting off admin) is always the person using the cheat ...

- crashing servers is definitely violation of law(sometimes more than one) in many countries

- booting off admin or preventing him to work on his server may be law breaking in several countries (this applies especially if the person is employee of hosting company or owner of the server)

there were cases already related to this (mainly in MMO sphere or initiated by hosting company)

about KFC site ...

you may maximally force them to take that part of code / software down but not rest

at least not until You find way how Your lawyers define cheating as 'financial' loss to company running these servers

if You are able to prove this then You may start to take actions against these players destructing gameplay (e.g. losses caused from cheater in some tournament event)...

also if cheater, cheating group or similar generate any profit from damage caused (this includes ads too) then You got some more fuel for lawyers ...

...

how aboout :

The product ArmA has a lifespan of X years. ( based on previous titles )

The lifespan is drasticly limited due to cheaters.

The Gamers Interest lowers, and doesnt bother to buy the next addon, (maybe even the next title) eventually moving on to a other game.

Lets say, the gamers lifespan is now HALF the predicted lifespan.

Bad publicity about the game, does help 'arma' to be 'dicount' priced, and yet not attractive to buyers.

The effect of this abrupt change of lifespan is LESS SALES.

Not to mention the hours of time that is put in by : Moderators - developers.

In short : The shit costs BIS money - eventually.

Q: why dont we get ANY official feedback on this 'problem'

Q: Why should the community start lawsuits? - why not BIS and us?

Would you bother buying a ticket for a party, if you knew there were only ugly chicks?

Blame me for posting a link. but ask yourself - 'intending to sell a cheat for arma' that should give some BIS lawyers a case.

my best bet is that i get a +1 WL , but about the rest probably nobody bothers....

think about for posting link to one of lamest cheat groups

just name them anyone here should use google to get if they wish ...

Dear BIS.

We BOUGHT your game, because we believe in this game.

Will you HELP US fight these 'cheaters' ? ( in form of Anticheat or legal actions)

Or will you just leave us where, and move on to game 2?

[Gaffa 0]

Wow lol...

Just a quicky, wouldn't verified signatures solve all the cheating problems? I don't know how these cheats work, but going by other treads they use scripts. Now in order to use the scripts wouldn't they have to make it a .pbo to use them? If so, once verified signatures is finally released they wont be able to join your server unless your server has granted the private key of that addon. If they have modified an addon, then the private key will be screwed. Meaning whatever you have set your server to do when players join with modified data, wont be able to join!

If my understanding is correct, then we just need something for illegal ID's then we have a start

[Monkwarrior 0]

Why not listen to sound advice ?

Give them no attention and they will disappear.

All things grow when they are given attention.

Do I really have to repeat myself

Monk.

[jerryhopper 285]

Why not listen to sound advice ?

Give them no attention and they will disappear.

All things grow when they are given attention.

Do I really have to repeat myself

Monk.

uhuh!

just pretend radicalism, facism, thiefs, murderes and war dont exsist. ignore it! dont give any attention, it will go away eventually.

How ignorant can you be?

note :

I learned that BIS is never gonna say something on this.

its maybe time to hammer the publishers on this?

[Monkwarrior 0]

Maybe in 10 years you'll find out why I say those things Jerry.

I really hope you find out sooner.

Greetingz, Monk.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Its a crime Report it

First of all crashing a server or any DNS activity that reduces its availability or causing its data to be corrupted is criminal law not civil.

You don't need a lawyer, just report it as a crime to your police. This means it costs you nothing

There is usually a specialist group in your country of origin that deals with Cyber crime, in the US I believe it comes under homeland defense. You can just report it to your local police but you may feel happier reporting it to your countries Cyber crime department.

In the US

http://www.ic3.gov/

In the UK.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-v....t-crime

In the Netherlands

http://www.meldpuntcybercrime.nl/english_information.html

Secondly conspiring with others to partake in the activity is conspiracy this usually twice or more the jail time.

Thirdly organisations that encourage others to partake in the activity and provide resources to do so are organising cyber crime, organised crime also comes under additional laws in the US it is the RICOH Act

Fourthly any organisation such as Youtube or KFC's web space provider that allows its resources to be used for the support of criminal activity is aiding and abetting, criminal law again.

Fifthly Youtube or KFC's web space provider and any download location providing downloads of the cheats is legally liable so you can sue them if the do not take down the offending materials, a simple email and legal letter from lawyers is usually sufficient to get the website closed down and all KFC movies removed.

Sixthly A class action is probably the way to go if they do not obey. It would mean big bucks for any lawyers who brought the action, you should have all the ambulance chasers queuing up to do it and they will do it on a no win no fee basis.

Seventhly there is no such thing as anonymous on the net. Tracking the IP of any cheater is easy because of the amount of time they have to be connected for.

Building a case

Your First course of action is contacting the police of the country of each of places of residence of your clan members and most importantly your game server country of location and report the KFC website to the police, CC the letter to your Local political representative.

Tell the police about the KFC's website and their front page boilerplate go through it with their Lawyer you will be surprised to learn that their attempt at a boilerplate on their site is the most superb evidence against them When I read it I was amazed at how naive it was.

Secondly record all activity and IP addresses with time of assault. A weeks activities should be enough but a months activity logs would be better, a legal witness such as lawyer and computer expert witness are all that are needed, FRAPS and your web server logs are needed.

Your web server provider has logs going back years as a customer you have rights to those logs.

Thirdly report the activity to your ISP they can then with police help log the activity. You may need to warn your clan members that you are logging server activity a simple boilerplate in the server onjoin is enough but check with the police.

Fourthly report the activity to CERT as a DNS activity this gets international police and cyber crime involved.

All the clans and ideally the game producers and developers need to join together to do this at the same time. November 5th 2007 would be a good date to all contact ISP's, Police, Lawyers, Politicians, and Media. But start the ball rolling by contacting you police service now. The sooner the police start investigating the better. On November 5th 2007 a mass of people emailing the police to question what they have done since you reported the crime will create a buzz.

A nice pro-forma letter or email is needed that includes the nature of the crime and evidense the KFC's bolierplate PDFed aand screen shot a signed afidavit sayin when it was taken and website is the best evidense to begin with. A lawyer taking a copy would be good but the police visiting the site and taking their copy is best. Then start adding in logs FRAPS witness statments etc.

That is a basic plan of action I am sure others will contribute.

Why not distribute the plan to all game sites?

Kind Regards walker

Hi all

and In reply to Jerry

As I said this is not civil law it is is criminal law so suing is not needed.

BIS cannot pursue it because they dont run the web servers that clans use allthough some of them may play the game on line so they may be able to report the crime that way. They can report the KFC website to the Czech police though.

Alternately Jerry as one of those affected by the crime and clearly exorsized by it, and thus able to report it; you could help the community by writing a proforma letter for us all to use! And organising the campaign for the 5th of November 2007 on your website would be realy worth while and boost your websites profile in to the bargain.

The above can provide the basis for the proforma.

Kind Regards walker

[jerryhopper 285]

If some want to make a 'team' for this idea,

Then im available to spread the word, and try get people/sites along or help out wherever i can.

After all, people fuck around with YOUR privacy!

taken from a 'cheatscript' readme:

Quote[/b] ]after selecting a player, you can hijack his global chat and say whatever you want. Whatever you type in the chat box will appear to all other players as coming from the player you have selected.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Interpol is the place to report Cyber crime thoughout Europe

http://www.interpol.int/

Jerry if along with your proforma you can build up a list of email addresses to send the proforma and evidense to that would be a great help!

Also contacting other game forum threads to do a mass mailing on the 5th of November 2007 would be a great interflashmob activity.

Kind Regards walker

[jerryhopper 285]

Walker, cmon man!

Starting with interpol and cybercrime, is not the way to start.

i personally reccommend :

1 - a clear letter on the issue. (one for community, one for publishers)

2 - get some real organized backup from the community.

3 - contact all arma publishers about this, and their reaction.

From that moment, its:

OR bundle forces with publishers, and create the rest of the strategy.

OR fight a war where the outcome is already decided.

The big question is, are there enough people in the community that have the persistance and will to make this happen.

And last but not less important : will the publishers listen!?

[Gaffa 0]

Quote[/b] ]And last but not less important : will the publishers listen!?

What do you think? I doubt it very much that they will listen. Either way their making money. Im sure as far as their concerned, ArmA is on the shelves and there it will stay. We have all brought ArmA, so they have our money. Whats in it for them to listen to us?

On the other hand, if we can get something solid to MAKE them listen, that might be a different story But i still think its highly doubtful

Either way its worth a try!

[walker 0]

Hi all

In reply to Jerry.

It is criminal law not civil.

Can you run a civil suit too? Sure but unless you can get a lawyer to do it for a contingency fee and take it on as a class action it will cost you.

Even if you if you do the civil action you have to report the crime as does your lawyer in order to pursue the civil case and the criminal case takes precedence. Please check this with your lawyer.

You don't stop a bank robber by suing them or at least you need to have had the criminal conviction before you take forward the civil recovery process against their assets. Also if the person has few assets you wont be able to pay back your lawyers though contingency would solve this.

Contingency for a lawyer is only worth while if there are big fish to fry so it is for going after Youtube for failing to remove criminal material ditto the KFC website provider BUT you need to do the criminal case through the police to do this kinda catch 22 again.

Reporting a crime is no biggie, that is what your police are there for and they want to catch criminals because that is what they paid for.

Proving the case is their job so they do all the lawyers investigation and gathering of evidence for you, saving you lawyer fees on private investigators and expert witnesses.

So your choices are to pay thousands to a lawyer who will make you report it to the police anyway OR contact police and report a crime. Bit of a no brainer really.

Also do not forget all the other games that this affects KFC do far more damage to other games like Unreal, Americas army, CS and the like than they do to ArmA and their big community gives more clout.

Your idea about getting all the game Dev's, publishers and others to sign a letter saying their bottom line is affected is a good one and I am sure one most of them would sign up to.

Just contact the police its FREE!

Kind Regards walker

[Shashman 0]

Here's what Z0ldDude (KFC site admin) had to say in response to your post, Victor:

Quote[/b] ]Victor

Member

Group: Members

Posts: 613

Joined: Nov. 2003 Posted: Sep. 10 2007,02:09

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not a lawyer, but when someone is using software/hacks to slow down, or even stop a server from working.. this causes server downtime. Which ultimately costs server owners money. This is illegal. I advise that server owners come together, and threaten legal action against those of KFC.

Causing servers to crash, or forcing them to reset is illegal. This is virtual terrorism. IP addresses will need to be found, and ISP's will need to be contacted. Server admins/owners need to get together on this matter and make a plan for action. I'm just an admin who has no financial stake in this, but threatening legal action can stop this. If they want to take it to the next level, a class action lawsuit can be initiated, and the terms would ultimately force this KFC Mullah Omar, and Wesker to face the justice system. I advise server owners to start messaging each other and formulate a plan.

A case that suggests cheaters are ruining the experience of others, is (I believe) a open shut case as it (to date) has had no legal standing. But forcing servers to be shut down, reset, or have had experience down time because of the actions of certain individual(s) is illegal and they should be prosecuted.

This action will not only slow/halt the hacks being created for Armed Assault, but for ALL of KFC's hacks that cause server downtimes... and ultimately, people money. These games and their servers could ultimately be affected as this list is on KFC's website. So if you know anyone that is ether an admin, or server owner for any game in this list, they should be contacted, and this information carried over into other forums.

Quote

---- Vietcong 1 & 2

---- Armed Assault

---- S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

---- Battlefield 2/2142

---- Call of Juarez

---- Counter Strike: Source

---- WarRock

---- Americas Army

---- Call of Duty

---- Soldner: Secret Wars

---- Jedi Academy

---- Grand Theft Auto (MTA)

---- FIFA 07

---- SOCOM 3

---- Splinter Cell 3

=====================================

All Armed Assault players would really appreciate this tremendously. I understand that Armed Assault "is just a game", but when these KFC people are costing people money.. is when the gloves should come off and its no longer "just a game"..But only server admins who pay monthly for a server will have any credibility in a case such as this. Don't forget, this cheat can take YOU (The server owner) and knock you out of your own server as they take admin rights.

This could be potentially fixed by BIS (to a degree) one day... but until that day, we wont have any protection. In my opinion, it'll be very far off before we see anything successful, incorporated that stops 95% or more of the hacks. Some of those games in that list are protected by Punk Buster, and obviously that program hasn't stopped them dead in their tracks.

It doesn't matter that they have that disclaimer on their website. Thats just like saying, "I'm OJ Simpson, this website has pictures of me killing people, you cannot use this against me in court" and have that website not be used as evidence as proof of a murder. Just like KFC saying they cannot be brought to justice because everything beyond that main page is not permitted to be visited by those who seek information on them for essentially costing people a lot of money.

If your a armed assault player, refer the admins from any game in that list to this post... and have them have a look at it and perhaps start an initiative. Unless, something in this post has no standing and it gets locked. But what else is to be done about this problem? Nothing... Coming together and resolving this KFC issue isn't just for Armed Assault players, but for the hundreds of thousands of players included in that list above, and for the potential of thousands of wasted dollars on people hacking into their servers.

Quote

I'm not a lawyer

Everyone can see that.

Quote

A case that suggests cheaters are ruining the experience of others, is (I believe) a open shut case as it (to date) has had no legal standing.

So you already know it is hopeless and a waste of time and money.

No lawyer will take the case knowing this unless some fool insisted on throwing money at him...he still makes his while you go broke...but they would never take the case even if paid 99.999% of a judgement.

P.T.B. said "A fool and his money are soon parted".

I think he was talking about idiots that go after KFC in Federal Court in L.A.,USA

Quote

This action will not only slow/halt the hacks being created for Armed Assault, but for ALL of KFC's hacks

Yeah that will happen....when Santa screws the Easter Bunny.

Quote

I'm just an admin who has no financial stake in this

So you can't be part of a lawsuit.

Quote

but threatening legal action can stop this

No it can't.

In fact a threat of lawsuit if mailed to the correct persons here at KFC...followed by other threats/demands opens the SENDER up to suit.

Quote

a class action lawsuit can be initiated

Sure it -could- as long as you pay the lawyer(s) and all costs up front.

Don't hope on ever winning however....just kiss your money by-by.

Quote

the terms would ultimately force this KFC Mullah Omar, and Wesker to face the justice system.

Are you saying that THEY are the people crashing servers?

Hard words...bring it into court if you dare but be ready to face what happens when it can't be proved.

Quote

Once the case is over, the case would have all legal fee's (including possible travel, lawyers, time compensation, and other misc. fee's paid in full by the defendants).

Wrong Mr. Im-not-a-lawyer.

The LOSER pays all cost for both the court,his lawyer/fees/costs AND the winners lawyer/fees/costs...as well as any COUNTER SUIT JUDGEMENT.

Pesonaly I say bring it on.

EA has not wished to do so and they have the Marina Del Ray office 5 minutes from me.

File suit in Fedeal Court here in L.A. California,USA and I will be there on behalf of KFC.

Be ready to make many trips months apart as court delays are very common and these things are known to often take years...many years.

Note that as the side that files,the first time your lawyer(s) fail to show up you have lost the case.

If you have an issue with KFC and the people who host it...send your complaints to me and I will drop them in the bin after laughing at them.

As long as I see no problem with KFC in regards to law here in the USA they will keep getting high daily bandwith at cut rate prices.

Z

P.S.

This Z0ldDude is leasing the hosting space, so good luck complaining to their 'ISP'

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

The you go to whoever hes leasing it from .

[1-8thBadger 0]

Its never going to work on the suing stuff, but Rambo your idea was by far the best so far on registering CDKey to be able to login and play online.

Right now the only two things that will help against this are:

Admins: A good one

Passworded servers: Enough of the old school here to advise a way of getting together on someones forum to pass along passwords to each other, only works if you keep changing it though.

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

Well, the Regester to play idea would be the quickest quick fix for a while, but would anyone from BIS like to comment on how easy/hard this would be to implement. ?

It would need to activate the moment a player clicks on multiplayer so the only delay would be in getting the game lobby up, rather than a delay on accessing each server.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Z0ldDude clearly has thought about the civil action but not the criminal case. Which cost you as reporter of the crime nothing.

As I keep sayin just report the crime to the police. They Z0ldDude and anyone who uses his software and contributes ideas to KFC, has to do all the turning to court and all the costs.

By the Z0ldDude's answer is evidense screen shot it and record it. Man the guy thinks he is lawyer when all he is doing is nailing his own cofin lid

Costs you money if you use a Lawyer and go civil recovery and you still have to report it to the police anyway. Versus free if you report it to the police.

Kind Regards walker

[NeMeSiS 11]

Hi all

Z0ldDude clearly has thought about the civil action but not the criminal case. Which cost you as reporter of the crime nothing.

As I keep sayin just report the crime to the police. They Z0ldDude and anyone who uses his software and contributes ideas to KFC, has to do all the turning to court and all the costs.

It will most likely end up in the 'we cant be bothered' box.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

Would you bother buying a ticket for a party, if you knew there were only ugly chicks?

I would, cuz boobies are always beautiful  

[Maddmatt 1]

Hi all

Z0ldDude clearly has thought about the civil action but not the criminal case. Which cost you as reporter of the crime nothing.

As I keep sayin just report the crime to the police. They Z0ldDude and anyone who uses his software and contributes ideas to KFC, has to do all the turning to court and all the costs.

It will most likely end up in the 'we cant be bothered' box.

But it doesn't cost anything to try.

[SPCWEBB 0]

Ignoring them anymore may not work, last night we were hit hard on our server, i saw a KFC in there, then all hell broke loose, one guy had a minigun growing out of his legs, parachutes did not work, stuff blew up , and then we got the arma msn which completely froze up all players, banned many 10 digit id's and implemented the Armaac and that seemed to calm things down, but we did have to password.

now i hear it is not 10 digit id's anymore, they have developed a new one that makes an id less than 10 digits

9th Infantry Division

[MehMan 0]

The best option so far is the registration of keys. While it wouldn't completely stop cheating, it would produce an obstacle.

Also, BIS needs to spew out some cash to hire some people to create and update a dedicated anti cheat system. That or use something that is already out there. A word spreads quickly via the internet, but a bad word spreads far quicker; for somebody who wants to get ArmA and views some reviews or asks some players and if he hears: bug ridden, full of cheaters, it's a definite turnoff.

[BLSmith2112 0]

-Ziggy- @ Sep. 10 2007,12:47)]lawsuit is not the answer. Getting lawyers involved means years of legal fees with no guarantee of anything but that.

password your server if you want the best protection.

hooray for public gaming! oopps I cant get in.

If you win the case (quite easy), KFC pays all expenses plus time spent. I think they know that they'll lose and they wont even take it that far. I think they'll settle it out of court out of fear... their damned kids.

[Nutty_101 0]

A lawsuit will never happen. Not to be a downer but unless you get cash behind you it does not happen. Cheating goes on everywhere and it's part of being on the internet.