recoil

[twisted 128]

Hi

With some great mods coming out this early stage is a good time to look at getting weapon recoils as 1) 'realistic' as possible and 2) consistent.

this way weapons made by one mod are not over/underpowered/ laserguns compared to other mods.

the starting point for the recoils should be BIS standard values. in ArmA BIS has got the recoils right, and they'll be common weapons no matter what other mod is being used. other weapon values based around these proportionately.

of course the mod makers and community in general should all have their say as to what is or isn't spot-on for recoils. this isn't ABout balance but about making the weapons in the game handle as realistically as possible in comparison with each other.

i have permission to publish BIS recoil values here. i will as a starting point, i will also put down suggested values for other weapons like the G3, FAL, M60 and more.

Please i ask you, if you have experience with the weapons in real life then comment on the recoil so adjustments can be made to ultimately create a set of recoil values that mod makers can use as a reference to make sure their mod can be used with other mods and perform as 'expected'.

i have experience in recoils for the recent (and great) WGL mod (under the name skullpal) and for Skavens amazing weapon addons.

ok. here are BIS recoil values. followed by values used by Skavens amazing addon (Skaven gave permission as well).

recoils follow the convention of duration, kickback, kickup and get repeated as many times as config allows.

also of note is that we can now put in prone recoil values so now bipods and other supports can be simulated! great work BIS!

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

pistolBase[] = {0,0,0, 0.080000,0.003000,0.020000, 0.050000,-0.003000,-0.033000, 0.050000,0,0};

subMachineGunBase[] = {0,0,0, 0.060000,0.005000,0.005000, 0.050000,0,-0.020000, 0.060000,-0.005000,0.005000, 0.050000,0,0};

assaultRifleBase[] = {0,0,0, 0.060000,0.010000,0.010000, 0.100000,0,-0.020000, 0.100000,-0.010000,0.010000, 0.050000,0,0};

machinegunBase[] = {0,0,0, 0.080000,0.010000,0.040000, 0.050000,-0.003000,-0.010000, 0.200000,0,0};

launcherBase[] = {0,0,0, 0.200000,0,0.050000, 0.100000,0,0};

AK74Recoil[] = {0,0,0, 0.060000,0.010000,0.012000, 0.100000,0,-0.020000,0.100000, -0.010000,0.010000,0.050000,0,0};

M240Recoil[] = {0,0,0, 0.080000,0.010000,0.050000, 0.050000,-0.003000,-0.008000, 0.200000,0,0};

M240RecoilProne[] = {0,0,0, 0.100000,0.003000,0.005000, 0.050000,-0.003000,-0.010000, 0.050000,0,0};

M249Recoil[] = {0,0,0, 0.070000,0.002000,0.010000, 0.035000,-0.002000,-0.020000, 0.050000,0,0};

M249RecoilProne[] = {0,0,0, 0.100000,0.003000,0.004000, 0.050000,-0.003000,-0.008000, 0.050000,0,0};

M4Recoil[] = {0,0,0, 0.060000,0.010000,0.010000, 0.100000,0,-0.018000, 0.100000,-0.010000,0.010000, 0.050000,0,0};

PKMRecoil[] = {0,0,0, 0.100000,0.030000,0.040000, 0.050000,-0.030000,-0.080000, 0.050000,0,0};

PKMRecoilProne[] = {0,0,0, 0.100000,0.003000,0.005000, 0.050000,-0.003000,-0.010000, 0.050000,0,0};

now the recoils for Skavens mod. note that they are based on BIS values but higher caliber weapons have more kick. the recoil is based on video footage/experience (my dads and my own), experimentartion and worked around BIS values.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

Ska_assaultRecoil[]= {0,0,0, 0.060000,0.01000,0.01, 0.10,0,-0.020000, 0.100000,-0.010000,0.010000, 0.050000,0,0};

Ska_assaultproneRecoil[]= {0,0,0, 0.060000,0.00800,0.0080, 0.10,0, -0.02000, 0.080000,-0.010000,0.010000, 0.050000,0,0};

Ska_M14Recoil[]= {0,0,0, 0.060000,0.01200,0.012, 0.10000,0,-0.0200, 0.100000,-0.010000,0.010000, 0.050000,0,0};

Ska_M14proneRecoil[]= {0,0,0, 0.060000,0.0080000,0.0100, 0.10000, 0, -0.020, 0.090000,-0.010000,0.010000, 0.050000,0,0};

Ska_FALRecoil[]= {0,0,0, 0.060000,0.01100,0.012, 0.10000,0,-0.0200, 0.100000,-0.010000,0.010000, 0.050000,0,0};

Ska_FALproneRecoil[]= {0,0,0, 0.060000,0.0080000,0.0090, 0.10000, 0, -0.020, 0.090000,-0.010000,0.010000, 0.050000,0,0};

Ska_G3Recoil[] = {0,0,0, 0.060000,0.012000,0.012, 0.10000,0,-0.0200, 0.100000,-0.010000,0.010000, 0.050000,0,0};

Ska_G3proneRecoil[]= {0,0,0, 0.060000,0.0080000,0.0100, 0.10000,0,-0.020, 0.090000,-0.010000,0.010000, 0.050000,0,0};

Ska_M60Recoil[]= {0,0,0, 0.080000,0.010000,0.05000, 0.050000,-0.0030, -0.008000,0.200000,0,0};

Ska_M60prRecoil[]= {0,0,0, 0.100000,0.003000,0.00500, 0.050000,-0.0030, -0.010000,0.050000,0,0};

Ska_HKERecoil[]= {0,0,0, 0.060000,0.01000,0.012, 0.10000,0,-0.0200, 0.100000,-0.010000,0.010000, 0.050000,0,0};

Ska_HKEprRecoil[]= {0,0,0, 0.09000,0.003000,0.005000, 0.05,-0.003,-0.008, 0.050000,0,0};

note that the changes are to the kickback and the kickup values mostly with as little change to BIS base work as possible. this is to keep things easily under control and make changes that are perceptible in the ways weapons work.

note that the m60 has recoil values like the m240 but it also has a faster rate of fire which really changes the working of it alot.

Please feedback and discussion WELCOMED.

this not a hard and set set of values rather a starting point for discussion and experimentation.

the aim of which is so provide mod-makers with a set of reference recoils for weapons so that we can play with 2 or more different mods at once and they 'fit' together well.

ultimately recoils for a very wide range of infantry weapon will end up listed here for modmakers copy&paste convenience.

edit - crap all this time spent typing and i post in the wrong damn forum. crap. moderator please move to discussion...

[hoz 0]

Moving as requested.

[Jackal326 1182]

I like the idea of a "JAM for Recoils" idea, and I hope to use the BIS values as a base for the weapons in my pack, with the alterations you outlined (higher calibre, higher kick etc).

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Higher calibre does not really equal "higher kick". There are

many other factors at work than just the size of the bullet.

If you want to approach this "scientifically", it might be a

good idea to work out what the actual free recoil velocity

and energy imparted by various calibres actually is and then

weight the results with the extra factors that affect felt

recoil (things like weapon design, weapon weight, furniture

design and configuration) to get a quantitative basis for the

amount of "jiggliness" on screen. I recall doing that for the

OFP NI mod weapons (before the mod was cancelled).

Otherwise it's all very subjective - and you could probably

argue all day about whether it looks jiggly enough or not on

screen, since different shooters tend to experience recoil

differently anyway.

[Messiah 2]

unfortunately faulkner, recoil in arma and ofp is simulated/produced by way of forcing the weapon and hands to move a certain distance each time the bullet is fired, as well as accounting for if its sustained or not - its impossible to apply scientific reasoning, because as you outlined the amount of visible recoil differs between those firing it - I am left in no doubt if that my grandmother were to fire a handgun, it would be pointing into the sky with the recoil, whereas a trained proffesional would have very little recoil.

I guess its a bit of trail and error at the end of the day

[edit] reading your reply properly this time, I think you know very well hows it calculated/simulated, so I'll go hide now - It was worth it for the granny comment though [/edit]

[Panda-PL- 0]

I don't see a future for standardised recoil fo bullet.

There are weapons firing the same round that have totally different recoil impulses. Weapon mass, shape, way of holding and even operation principle make all the difference.

Now M249 and M16 fire the same round, yet they are totally different in handling because of M249's higher mass and bipod.

[Jackal326 1182]

@ June 25 2007,16:30)]I don't see a future for standardised recoil fo bullet.

There are weapons firing the same round that have totally different recoil impulses. Weapon mass, shape, way of holding and even operation principle make all the difference.

Now M249 and M16 fire the same round, yet they are totally different in handling because of M249's higher mass and bipod.

Indeed, but recoil is defined by WEAPON ingame, not by the AMMO TYPE used, so we can simulate the weapon mass/mass distribution (i.e. muzzle heavy weapons kicking less) etc. affecting the recoil.

[twisted 128]

Jackal326 your weapon pack is one of the most anticipated addons coming. thanks for replying!

Col Faulkner, you know a shit load about recoil and i guess you'll be applying them to the FAL pack that i recall you are making. I'd be really interested in hearing more from you on the recoil your assault rifles will be having.

panda[pl], you are right about per bullet recoil but as jackal said with Arma the recoil is by weapon not bullet type.

I'll be organising the recoil values better in the initial post by weapon and listing calibre etc.

the bottom line is i am going on about the recoil for purely selfish reasons. I want to be able to play with 3 or 4 different mods in a MP session and KNOW that all of them 'feel' right in relation to each other. what's the point of coming up with a kick arse mod only to have no-one play it because it doesn't fit in with another favorite weapons mod?

90% of weapon mods for OFP died because they all had very different 'feel' to weapons. now difference is good when it brings out the weapon feel but not good when it's wrong in relation to all other weapons and means the hours put into a mod are pretty much wasted.

this thread would ideally be for anyone to put up suggested recoils, having knowledgeable modmakers and players commenting on them and then having them as a standard set of values other modmakers can start working from.

[bravo 6 0]

Where can we check and "replace" these codes for the original ones so i can test them?

what are the file names so i can open them and replace with these codes

Im not a mod maker but i would like to try different recoils. I dont like the original ones. As if they have slow movements while and after pressing the trigger.

I liked the SLX recoils more, but they were not released.

edit: typo