New sniper system?

[-CS-SOBR-1st-I-R- 0]

But then I also think SAW barrels should overheat!

I Think M4s should tend to explode when used in fullauto. I remember this was one of the first news I heard about the third gulf war: "The M4, standard issued carbine to US forces deployed to Iraq, exploded in several cases when used in full auto mode, leaving injured GIs"

Adjustable scopes + wind thingi: HURRAY

Realism 1 - 0 Noobs

[crazyjockey 0]

I vote yes, with the caveat that windage can be switched off in the options.  If people want to torture themselves by playing a sniper in a video game, let them.

And to everyone who is crying for 100% sniper realism, lets also add humidity, temperature, cross, head, tail and oblique winds, mirage effect, angle of depression or elevation of the target from the firing position, heartbeat, breathing and shooting posture!

There is a reason it takes months and months of training to turn a fine shooter into a sniper.  It's because hitting targets reliably in all conditions at long ranges is hard.

[amrax 0]

Quote[/b] ]And to everyone who is crying for 100% sniper realism, lets also add humidity, temperature, cross, head, tail and oblique winds, mirage effect, angle of depression or elevation of the target from the firing position, heartbeat, breathing and shooting posture!

Great idea, I am all for those features.

Quote[/b] ]angle of depression or elevation of the target

Angle of firing you mean, right?

[crazyjockey 0]

Quote[/b] ]And to everyone who is crying for 100% sniper realism, lets also add humidity, temperature, cross, head, tail and oblique winds, mirage effect, angle of depression or elevation of the target from the firing position, heartbeat, breathing and shooting posture!

Great idea, I am all for those features.

Quote[/b] ]angle of depression or elevation of the target

Angle of firing you mean, right?

Same thing. The angle of the target above or below the sniper.

And I was joking about those features. Who wants to practice playing snipers for weeks on end until you can actually hit stuff? Realism is really cool, but there has to be a limit on how technical you make things.

[-CS-SOBR-1st-I-R- 0]

Well ... many people that play OFP/ArmA were soldiers. And some of course still are or did recently serve and some for sure are sharpshooters or snipers. And even if they are not, there are many people dedicated in this and would love to have it exactley like the real thing. I personally would spent a week to be perfect in sniping.

There are in fact clans that do these things at a very unique and professional way, everyone has his profession in some way, I remember my own old Dragunov training missions I created on desert island and spent a daily 20 minutes on them.

Anyway... Im in for more features and more realistic sniper optics.

[Panko-31stMEU- 0]

Well put. Sniping is indeed hard if you're trying to hit a moving target at 500+ meters in the game. Most of the time your targets will be moving in a zigzag pattern and make it even harder to hit them. The fact is that this is just a game (albeit a simulator) and making it too hard will utterly make the sniper useless if less than 0.001% of the gaming community can effectively do the job. If you want realism, play the game against an elusive enemy that only shows up when he snipes at your convoy or sets off an IED after 16 hours out in the field. It's a game, get over it. SOME adjustments for the sniper rifle to make it more effective might not be a bad idea but adding wind, humidity, mirage effects or anything of the sort is going overboard. This isn't virtual reality people; it simulates the strategy and tactics of combat for FUN. The actual feel of the weapons or the horrible effects of them should not be a consideration here. But as others have said, if you are that adamant about getting all of these effects, be our guest and go make a mod. It's the developers’ job to make sure the OVERALL community is happy with the product and do what is in the best interests of their company. Make the game too hard or not much fun, then no one will buy the damn thing and they will go bankrupt. Use logic please. If you think these guys aren't satisfying you then you better never talk to DICE or EA. They won't listen to what you have to say unless you have a hundred dollar bill in their face for their time.

[Fekin-Detri 0]

[CS]SOBR[1st-I-R] , what does your sig pic mean btw... ArmA Comunity was raped ?

[crazyjockey 0]

SOBR[1st-I-R] @ April 02 2007,02:03)]Well ... many people that play OFP/ArmA were soldiers. And some of course still are or did recently serve and some for sure are sharpshooters or snipers. And even if they are not, there are many people dedicated in this and would love to have it exactley like the real thing. I personally would spent a week to be perfect in sniping.

There are in fact clans that do these things at a very unique and professional way, everyone has his profession in some way, I remember my own old Dragunov training missions I created on desert island and spent a daily 20 minutes on them.  

Anyway... Im in for more features and more realistic sniper optics.

I am completely for minor adjustments to realism, like adjustable range, but adding more features is going overboard. I love to have it accurate as well, and a lot of the minor inaccuracies in the game really annoy me, but making sniping completely realistic would also make it completely unplayable.

As I pointed out before, you need to cut a line between realism and fun. This is a game that attracts a crowd that values realism to a degree, but there is no fun in making it completely realistic.

As Panko said, if we're going for 100%, you'll be lying in place for hours on end waiting to hit a target that shows up for a few seconds (and then you'd probably miss because of one of the many variables that effect a snipers bullet). Personally, I believe the line exists well before that.

[Fekin-Detri 0]

tbh sniping in arma isnt easy, not becuase the game makes it hard, but because the players dont play like real people. its pretty hard to hit people running at 800 meters in arma.

i think adding more things to make it harder would just make it pointless.

its about right at the moment, if you dont want to get sniped, stay in cover or keep moving

Yes but its supposed to be a realistic combat simulator  

It would make sniping as much a skill as piloting or being a squad leader, and added difficulty would eliminate reasons for accusations of someone being a 'whore' or 'camper'

I don't really see how ArmA is meant to be a realistic combat simulator in any true form, rather a very general over all basic war "jack of all trades, master of none" simulation is more like it at best.

It only simulates in a very basic fashion.

Why call it a simulator and bother having all this sniper balistic crap coded into the game when you can near enough fly helicopters with up-down-left and right.

Look how you fly fighters in ArmA, then compare it to Falcon 4.0, a million miles apart.

There will always be people that want their favorite aspects of the game evolved, but I just don't see this happening with a game such as this.

[Doc_69 0]

I am one of the people who like to snipe in ArmA. Having said that I have a split opinion here.

YES, I would like to have somewhat adjustable sights so that I can shoot extreme long range in game.

YES, I would like to see adjustable sights so that we can have mortars in game.

YES I would like to see if not adjustable then at leat semi accurate sights for the grenade launcher.

However

NO I do not think this is something that BIS should have to do. I would much rather have them do things like optimize the engine, fix bugs and improve the framerate for most folks.

Come on folks, those of you who where around in OFP days remember how much was done by the developers and how much by the addon/mod makers. Which would you prefer the developers doing the IMPORTANT stuff like said engine optimization etc, or things like this that can probably be done by a group of addon/mod makers? The developers need to concentrate on the major things to benefit the MAJORITY of the user base otherwise the user base will evaporate in the long run.

Oh, by the way, those unfamiliar with ammunition for the M107. This is the ammo I am modding for my self into ArmA.

Mk_211

Jest my 2cents wurth!!!

[amrax 0]

Quote[/b] ]It's the developers job to make sure the OVERALL community is happy with the product and do what is in the best interests of their company.

.....making it too hard will utterly make the sniper useless if less than 0.001% of the gaming community can effectively do the job

Dude, that is exactly the point of fact, 0.001% does hit with a decent ratio because the lack of proper options!

Can you hit with a 1:1.4 or 1:3 ratio, I doubt you even tried the sniper?

Quote[/b] ]If you want realism, play the game against an elusive enemy

Does it matter? I can't hit him and he can't hit me... ?!

Quote[/b] ]adding wind, humidity, mirage effects or anything of the sort is going overboard

Fine, let them not input those, as long as we have MINIMUM options available so we can at least hit with a "decent" or perfect ratio.

Quote[/b] ]....Use logic please.

A "perfect" +- game boosts sales, won't you say?

Quote[/b] ]Make the game too hard or not much fun

Isn't that the point I'm making?

So you consider the sniper rifle and scope NOT working making it more "fun" for whomever?

Why do you make it seem as if it is so damn difficult for them?

They made the whole game... 2 options would be a problem? After all they are "PROGRAMMERS" etc etc... you get the point.

It is what they do for a living, ain't it?

Quote[/b] ]

As I pointed out before, you need to cut a line between realism and fun. This is a game that attracts a crowd that values realism to a degree, but there is no fun in making it completely realistic.

To be honest I bet those players just fail in hitting successful in other games and scream for realism to fix JUST "that" (because THEY don't know how to use those weapons) but when it gets "real" as those weapons would actually be used in real life than they'd back out of it.

Of course to fly a plane or chopper you wouldn't wanna join the army to get an education of how to fly them, I understand THAT.

But these two examples are seperated issues.

So basically you want a game in which YOU know how to use "a" weapon but when someone else gets a little too good, you change your mind!

And don't even think about using that against me, because I KNOW how to use the sniper.

There are just better ways to use a sniper as should be understandable to you!

Quote[/b] ]The developers need to concentrate on the major things to benefit the MAJORITZ of the user base otherwise the user base will evaporate in the long run.

May I remind you that they cahnged the zero scope level of the SVD, adding two simple damn options would have been EASY for them.

[Panko-31stMEU- 0]

Well amrax, apparently you're right and everyone else is wrong. My mistake.

[crazyjockey 0]

To be honest I bet those players just fail in hitting successful in other games and scream for realism to fix JUST "that" (because THEY don't know how to use those weapons) but when it gets "real" as those weapons would actually be used in real life than they'd back out of it.

So basically you want a game in which YOU know how to use "a" weapon but when someone else gets a little too good, you change your mind!

Settle.  As someone has already said, it's better for the devs to focus on fixing the things that benefit the biggest proportion of players.  Adding in a whole bunch of ballistics features that will benefit the tiny proportion of the community who are sniping fanatics isn't the most effective use of their time (especially since there are heaps of other things that need fixing first).

And I don't know where you got that last supposition from.  I have this annoying thing called a job, and it prevents me from practicing all day long, ipso facto I generally assume that some people are better than me.

EDIT: and adding windage and some of the other options you want will decrease your chances of hitting, not increase them. The reason you know how to use the sniper now is because it isn't absurdly realistic.

[frederf 0]

I'm still confused why so many people have the perception that adding adjustable elevation for sights is going to make sniping hugely complex and impossible except for 0.1% of the population. It isn't, adjustable sights can only make things easier for the sniper. If you don't like them, leave the elevation controls alone and the game is EXACTLY like it used to be. Sometimes you people want to make me tear my hair out.

Windage is a different issue. You could always play on missions with 0 wind and it you would never notice.

Mirage effect (ununiformities in air density) and stuff is more advanced and I'd like to see BIS do the far simpler stuff first.

Also to the crowd that says "Make a mod!" STFU!!!! Elevation controls have to be BUILT INTO THE GAR'RAM EXE, only BIS can do this. Mods can only do really ghey ugly mishmashes of scripting to make a crude work around.

And lastly adjustable elevation affects more than just snipers!!!! The way to get realistic M203 sights, AT4 sights, etc is through the addition of an elevation changing control. Yes there are many fixes needed for ArmA, but this feature isn't some out-of-the-way corner issue that only affects 2 people who are sniper nerds, it affects most of the gameplay.

[crazyjockey 0]

I don't think any of the naysayers were against adjustable elevation.  Adjustible sights are a good idea. It's going further than that which is a waste of time.

And having sights that are adjustible for range won't benefit snipers anyway.  Snipers use the mil dots to estimate the distance of an enemy in the field.  They'll be great for the grenade launchers and AT rockets, though.

[dslyecxi 23]

I'm not going to get into the whole "adjustable sights" thing aside from simply stating that it is a needed feature and would be great to have.

I do want to address this quote, though:

Quote[/b] ]As to adjustable sights : hear hear! Someone said something about making mortars and the like work, and -that- my friends is something we'd all like to see, no? Imagine it : by using the compass, you can easily (well, with a bit of math) triangulate a location with a FO, and then, by approximating distance, you can have your mortar dude adjust his sights, and bam -> real, instant, non-simulated artillery. Booyah!

Wargames League for OFP had this, and ACE for ArmA will as well. I'm sure CoC will do something along the same lines.

Whether you sit there and dial the T&E stuff yourself is beside the point - the fact of the matter, and the main issue, is that you will be able to fire realistic mortars in both. It may be via a GUI, but you'll have it.

Besides, real mortar fire involves a lot more than just "dialing the T&E", and I'm positive nobody will go and model in such (unnecessary) detail. Keep it simple while retaining a depth of functionality and you have the best of both worlds.

[4 IN 1 0]

i think things should be taken step by step, now the first thing to improve IMO should be the dammage value and the ballistic of every weapons and ammo type, now as someone here have already said that in earlier topic, the value now are just not good enought, so this should be the first thing that need to be fix(if BI wanted to), secound is, as the topic said, the fix of the  scope sights, now i have no idea what other thinks, but for me the sights are just not correct, if you compare it to a real world one, they just not on scale and you cant use them as IRL(which is needed without adjustable elevation), and its just not work in the game itself too(bullet wont hit target as it should like the normal ironsights etc), this should be sort first, wind would not affect ballistic in both OFP and ARMA, but we should also take target movment into account, so it would be great to have adjustable sights, but would still go if they dont have one, but please, we need a more proper scoped sights.

@Fekin-Detri

AFAIK the community was raped by the publisher, and was raped by the community themself, and BIS might have helped them is some way i am not sure, but thats would be another topic, too OT to talk here

[Heathen13 0]

I don't think we should have wind and elevation just to make sniping more fun. By doing that, EVERY weapon would need to be elevated and take in wind, and, personally I do not want my bullets landing ten metres to the left to get shot by some person with an SVD. Not worth it in my opinion.

[Vex 0]

Might as well add Range finders to the kit then, if you add the rest of it.

Which i'm all for. But then the ballistics of the M107 need to be upgraded. at the moment, it takes more than one round to take out a tyre from 500 meters.

[rom_un 0]

It isn't, adjustable sights can only make things easier for the sniper. If you don't like them, leave the elevation controls alone and the game is EXACTLY like it used to be.

Quote[/b] ]Windage is a different issue. You could always play on missions with 0 wind and it you would never notice.

Quote[/b] ]Mirage effect (ununiformities in air density) and stuff is more advanced and I'd like to see BIS do the far simpler stuff first.

Quote[/b] ]Elevation controls have to be BUILT INTO THE GAR'RAM EXE, only BIS can do this.

Quote[/b] ]And lastly adjustable elevation affects more than just snipers!!!!

Quote[/b] ]Are you tired of having to cover the BMP2 totally with your M136 AT4 sights and praying you don't miss?

+1000 for all, tanks Frederf, just one thing to add:

With the M24 it's impossible to make precise shoot over 800m, and modded weapons is a limitation and a source of problems in MP.

Not agree ? Read before the entire post that produce this one.

Quote[/b] ] If you want realism, play the game against an elusive enemy that only shows up when he snipes at your convoy or sets off an IED after 16 hours out in the field.

You don't know how many time i spend for approach for a single shoot in my solo-missions, Arma is not just a CTF game.

Rom1, playing Ofp/Arma since he left the army.

[Easy_tiger 0]

Ive voted No in the context of PvP because as already stated normal gameplay is sometimes to fast for snipers in ArmA. in SP / Coop theres plenty of time to range up a target properly (with practice of course)

[dslyecxi 23]

Ive voted No in the context of PvP because as already stated normal gameplay is sometimes to fast for snipers in ArmA. in SP / Coop theres plenty of time to range up a target properly (with practice of course)

Just because your preferred style of PvP is "too fast" does not mean that all PvP is too fast for this to have a noticeable effect.

[whisper 0]

+1 for adjustable sights.

As far as more advanced "sniping" (well, general shooting impacting snipers), if we take this path, then

- I want real choppers avionics, not the excuse of a "radar" we have now. I want proper instruments, target acquisition systems, proper sensors, blablabla.

- I want real tanks. Not stupid mouse-driven canons. And once more not this radar that is nowhere near reality.

- I want real AAA vehicules, with their radar system simulated, as well as the firing-system done in game.

- I want counter measures, tank defensive techniques implemented.

I could continue the list, I think you got the point : why going that far in the simulation in 1 topic that is already not that badly implemented (once adjustable sights are in game), when other sides of the simulation are (imho) way more lacking?

[amrax 0]

Quote[/b] ]there are many people dedicated in this and would love to have it exactley like the real thing. I personally would spent a week to be perfect in sniping.

Exactly, so would I. Ask yourself what kind of game this is? A noobie arcade or hardcore simulation? Isn't it said this is a sim btw?

Quote[/b] ]and adding windage and some of the other options you want will decrease your chances of hitting, not increase them

Actually I wanted the windage dail FIRST which *increases* my changes of hitting.

Quote[/b] ]I'm still confused why so many people have the perception that adding adjustable elevation for sights is going to make sniping hugely complex and impossible except for 0.1% of the population. It isn't, adjustable sights can only make things easier for the sniper. If you don't like them, leave the elevation controls alone and the game is EXACTLY like it used to be. Sometimes you people want to make me tear my hair out.

Couldn't agree more.

Quote[/b] ]Windage is a different issue. You could always play on missions with 0 wind and it you would never notice.

Indeed!

Quote[/b] ]And lastly adjustable elevation affects more than just snipers!!!! The way to get realistic M203 sights, AT4 sights, etc is through the addition of an elevation changing control. Yes there are many fixes needed for ArmA, but this feature isn't some out-of-the-way corner issue that only affects 2 people who are sniper nerds, it affects most of the gameplay.

He is making sense for a change ^^.

Quote[/b] ]And having sights that are adjustible for range won't benefit snipers anyway. Snipers use the mil dots to estimate the distance of an enemy in the field.

What...

Actually the problem with moving targets is not so much that they “move†rather than the “teleport†3-4m a time. I don't know why but they do, and NOT because of lag because I tried it single player!

Quote[/b] ]I do not want my bullets landing ten metres to the left to get shot by some person with an SVD. Not worth it in my opinion.

The M16 and Aks aren't as accurate as snipers, so shooting a SNIPER with those assault weapons is for you impossible, but is the way it in real life too!

Quote[/b] ]in SP / Coop theres plenty of time to range up a target properly (with practice of course)

Can you? I doubt that!

Quote[/b] ]I could continue the list, I think you got the point : why going that far in the simulation in 1 topic that is already not that badly implemented (once adjustable sights are in game), when other sides of the simulation are (imho) way more lacking?

Yea you are right!

Quote[/b] ]tank defensive techniques implemented.

Like? Active armor? LSDW, LWR, Drozd-2... What kind of tank rounds does the game offer so far by-the-way?

[whisper 0]

That, and also... simple smoke defense

Currently, even smoke is useless against AI, they can see through it