Sniping

[Doc_69 0]

How does using the rate of fire change key to swap out scopes sound? Might be easier to do. Since the sniper weapons are all single shot with the exception of the AK-pso you might be able to do it that way. Just hit F key to adjust the elevation.

Doc_69

[Animal-22 0]

Quote[/b] ]I think they concluded (and rightly so IMO) that elevation is difficult enough. Hopefully they got they bullet ballistics models pretty close on that.

OMG I can't believe you just said that.... man

Why don't you go play BF2 or Delta Force, and NO it is not “too difficult†AT ALL!

NO ELEVATION MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT!!!

Quote[/b] ]If they included windage variables, even the slightest breeze would make you easily miss a human target at 500m.

THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE AN ELEVATION FOR IT! Dude you lost it...

Do you know anything about sniping and scoping or did you just play Delta Force 2?

Quote[/b] ]Absolutely... I totally agree. Anything above 5 mils is totally unreliable. I submitted a request in the mod and addon forum to have a small script made that would allow us to either statically or dynamically reset the zero on our rifles. I hope someone can get it done.

Hello,.. it is NOT, I pulled off many successful 600m+ hits.

Quote[/b] ]Not only would it make marksmanship beyond 400m an actual skill, but require some knowledge to be good at it. I set up a simple mission in the editor and shooting beyond about 900m is near impossible, not because of the rifle but that the fixed optics make aiming with that much hold over unreliable.

It might be a hard thing to code, but if I had to choose between M1A1 interiors and A-10s and a Mi-17 hind and adjustable sights, I'd pick adjustable sights every time. Modders can make the other stuff, sights have to come from BIS.

Even a shot at 100m would require skill.

Are you serious??? You're talking nonsense & crap,,,

And NO, it is a very very easy thing for them to do it right, they simply didn't care to do so!

I know player who take better shots in BF2.

It is BIS job to deliver a realistic game as promised, this if FAR FAR from it.

They failed miserably!

Why does everyone think it is so damned difficult for them to put in those 2 options... it is so so simple.

You sir, are an idiot.

How does elimnating real-world bullet physics (ie. No elevation variable) make it more difficult? If you eliminate ballistics (ie. elevation in this case), all you have to do in center the crosshairs on a target and pull the trigger. Again, please explain how eliminating the elevation variable makes distance shooting MORE difficult.

Further, I talk about windage and you say "That's why they have an elevation for it!" and proceed to ask me if I know anything about sniping. Again, you prove you are absolutely clueless about distance shooting. Elevation is UP AND DOWN... windage is LEFT AND RIGHT. Elevation refers to the elevation of the barrel to counteract the effects of gravity on the flight path of the projectile. Windage refers to moving the barrel to the left or right of the target to counteract the effect that wind would have on the flight path of the projectile. Why don't you figure out what you are talking about before you call someone else out.

I'm sure you have pulled of successful 600m+ hits but I'll garauntee that you can't pull off a 1st shot hit at more than 600m using only the mil-dot scope to range the target. If you would like to prove it to me and another 3rd party on this board, let's set it up.

[Animal-22 0]

Quote[/b] ] it you could have 10 different M24 SWS

Inelegant but it's a solution. Thanks Frederf.

With 2 radio script, one to get the +200m leveled scope, and one to get the -200m leveled one. And a message to tell witch one do you have.

IRL, when you change elevation, you don't look in the scope, so the changing weapons animation is not a problem for me.

Remember, in Ofp, the M21 was changing the zero according to the zoom. Did the M4SPR change is elevation with the zoom ? I think yes, but i can't test it at work.

I agree... I be fine with having different rifles with different statically set scopes. At least I could choose one given my mission. The only way it's possible to make 1st shot hits beyond 700m in this game is to use a scope with a greater distance zero point. A scope zeroed at 500m would make it possible to go to about 850m reliably. A scope zeroed at 750m would make it possible to get close to 1km.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

I agree... I be fine with having different rifles with different statically set scopes. At least I could choose one given my mission.

That isn't the intention (although it is a simpler alternative).

With some wizardly scripting it is possible to change between

the "differently zeroed" rifle models in the game. You could for

example have a set of commands like "range 200m", "range

300m" etc (assuming an M3 telescope) in the action menu

and select whatever is desired. With some thought, a better

solution for the user-interface could probably also be devised.

edit: That probably isn't very clear. When you select

a "range", the rifle model would be "silently" swapped in your

hands - you wouldn't notice any change but a different

weapon (with a different zero) would have replaced the one

you were holding.

[Animal-22 0]

I agree... I be fine with having different rifles with different statically set scopes. At least I could choose one given my mission.

That isn't the intention (although it is a simpler alternative).

With some wizardly scripting it is possible to change between

the "differently zeroed" rifle models in the game. You could for

example have a set of commands like "range 200m", "range

300m" etc (assuming an M3 telescope) in the action menu

and select whatever is desired. With some thought, a better

solution for the user-interface could probably also be devised.

edit: That probably isn't very clear. When you select

a "range", the rifle model would be "silently" swapped in your

hands - you wouldn't notice any change but a different

weapon (with a different zero) would have replaced the one

you were holding.

AHHHHH.... BRILLIANT! I suppose that this swapping would only occur as swapping of parameter files and not actually automated swapping of in-game instances of rifles. It seems as though that would create the need to actually carry several different rifles (not possible, obviously). So, again, I am assuming that you're actually just swapping config files for the rifle.

[Maddmatt 1]

Instead of swapping weapons to get a different zero, you could just have different zeros (optics) assigned to different firemodes.

Amazing how people overlook the simple solutions and think of more complicated ways. It's like you are imagining engine limitations which don't exist.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

AHHHHH.... BRILLIANT! I suppose that this swapping would only occur as swapping of parameter files and not actually automated swapping of in-game instances of rifles. It seems as though that would create the need to actually carry several different rifles (not possible, obviously). So, again, I am assuming that you're actually just swapping config files for the rifle.

It may be possible to do it by swapping just the configs but

I never investigated that, so I'm not going to make any

pronouncement on it's feasibility. For my purposes I wanted

the adjusting cams on my sight unit to "move" as visual

feedback of the sight setting, so I went down the "auto-

swap rifle model plus config" route.

[rom_un 0]

Player removeWeapon "M26_Z_400"

Player addWeapon "M26_Z_800"

Where M26_Z_800 is a modded weapon (config files) and M26_Z_400 another one with different elevation.

Quote[/b] ]you could just have different zeros (optics) assigned to different firemodes

is it possible ? and how ?

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Player removeWeapon "M26_Z_400"

Player addWeapon "M26_Z_800"

Where M26_Z_800 is a modded weapon (config files) and M26_Z_400 another one with different elevation.

Yes, that's the idea.

[Maddmatt 1]

Player removeWeapon "M26_Z_400"

Player addWeapon "M26_Z_800"

Where M26_Z_800 is a modded weapon (config files) and M26_Z_400 another one with different elevation.

Yes, that's the idea.

And you have both clearly ignored my post. You don't need entirely different weapons, just different "firemodes".

Why make things so complicated when they don't need to be?

[Dallas 9]

I think I'd prefere something similar to the way you operate aircraft flaps in the action menu. The weapon is zeroed at a certain range and then you can chose "one click up/one click down" for each 100 meters.

[Animal-22 0]

Player removeWeapon "M26_Z_400"

Player addWeapon "M26_Z_800"

Where M26_Z_800 is a modded weapon (config files) and M26_Z_400 another one with different elevation.

Yes, that's the idea.

And you have both clearly ignored my post. You don't need entirely different weapons, just different "firemodes".

Why make things so complicated when they don't need to be?

No, they didn't. Faulkner even said (paraphrasing) "It may be possible, but I don't know." So if you know it's possible... tell us how. If it's *THAT* easy then why haven't you done it already. They are basically saying to you they think it's possible but don't know because they haven't done it. I would react in the same way, I won't KNOW it is possible until I see it done.

[whisper 0]

Player removeWeapon "M26_Z_400"

Player addWeapon "M26_Z_800"

Where M26_Z_800 is a modded weapon (config files) and M26_Z_400 another one with different elevation.

Quote[/b] ]you could just have different zeros (optics) assigned to different firemodes

is it possible ? and how ?

Not sure changing the weapons this way doesn't automatically trigger a weapon switch animation, destroying the "silent swap" desired effect.

fire modes with modelSpecial, perhaps? If the view point is included in modelSpecial P3D (beware, I'm not really p3d expert :P just wild guesses)

Maddmatt, I don't think the optics works in ArmA like they did in OFP. Basically, as far as I've understood, optic is now just a view point and a view axe. In other words, it is included in the p3d, and not in the muzzle cpp configuration anymore.

[rom_un 0]

And you have both clearly ignored my post.

I not sure...

That was for you : "is it possible ? and how ? "

Please explain instead of complaint.

[Maddmatt 1]

And you have both clearly ignored my post.

I not sure...

That was for you : "is it possible ? and how ? "

Please explain instead of complaint.

Sorry, I didn't see that.

I haven't looked at configs for ArmA much, but I know this was possible in OFP. ArmA still supports 2D sights (since weapons like the M24 use them) so you should be able to assign different "optics" to different firemodes. In OFP some weapon addons had sights for the grenade launchers under the weapons which were seperate from the weapon sights.

You could have different 2D sights attached to the different "firemodes" for the sniper rifles, like 800m and 1000m. Each sight could basically be the same thing but with the 2D sight image lowered to the new impact point. Or a value in the config may allow you to make the sight point to a lower angle.

[Animal-22 0]

And you have both clearly ignored my post.

I not sure...

That was for you : "is it possible ? and how ? "

Please explain instead of complaint.

Sorry, I didn't see that.

I haven't looked at configs for ArmA much, but I know this was possible in OFP. ArmA still supports 2D sights (since weapons like the M24 use them) so you should be able to assign different "optics" to different firemodes. In OFP some weapon addons had sights for the grenade launchers under the weapons which were seperate from the weapon sights.

You could have different 2D sights attached to the different "firemodes" for the sniper rifles, like 800m and 1000m. Each sight could basically be the same thing but with the 2D sight image lowered to the new impact point. Or a value in the config may allow you to make the sight point to a lower angle.

Ahhh... this is true. ArmA has the grenade launcher sights which are different from the red-dot sights on the M4+M203. So, we know it's possible to attach different sights to different fire modes. How to exectue it, I don't have the first clue.

[frederf 0]

I think you could have different sights for different fire modes but they'd all be looking in the same place, as in the viewpoint relative to the barrel can't be changed. I guess you could shift the art up the screen but that would look rather silly and only work so much.

Can anyone more knowledgeable chime in on this and confirm/deny the ability to change where the viewpoint and viewvector based on firemode?

Totally different weapons on the other hand could have different zero's for optics no problem.

[amrax 0]

Quote[/b] ]I can see why they didn't introduce wind.. there's no way to tell the direction and strength in the game unless someone told it to you (or you had a weather station thingie).

OMG, another one who knows nothing about sniping...

Where did you get your information from, discovery channel? Go take a class.

Quote[/b] ]If you eliminate ballistics

I never said that.

Quote[/b] ]Elevation is UP AND DOWN... windage is LEFT AND RIGHT.

Oh I'm sorry, you talked too much crap I made a *spelling error*. Go play some more Delta Force...

I know the difference better than you! I brought it up in the first place.

Quote[/b] ]I'm sure you have pulled of successful 600m+ hits but I'll garauntee that you can't pull off a 1st shot hit at more than 600m using only the mil-dot scope to range the target. If you would like to prove it to me and another 3rd party on this board, let's set it up.

Dude, didn't you read the post where I wrote that I figured it out?!

I just brought it up so a better solution would be coded instead of the the mil dot system, which really isn't as fun!

Which one, I wrote below.

Quote[/b] ]A scope zeroed at 500m would make it possible to go to about 850m reliably.

Wrong, remember what I said about the M24? I pulled off many shots at 650m while its zerod on 300m! 350M difference... that is what you mend isn't it?

Presuming it is actually MOA accurate yes (the 500m zerod version)...

ron_um did you try the MOA accuracy?

Col. Faulkner, all you need are 4 keys (or 2 where you just go to the next “rangeâ€) for 2 clicks up/down and 2 left/right.

Use /*-+{}|:â€<>?_+-=[]\;'.,/ for all I care (which ever keys you prefer).

Something so simple, even animal22's game has it...

Frederf, I'll just ignore the misinformation you write!

[Doc_69 0]

From what I can remember from working with OFP you can change the zero point with a combination of the INITSPEED value and then adjusting the zoom values/viewpoints. Will have to experiment some with it. Was already able to change the optics on the M4 between aimpoint and acog based on fire mode. Afterall if you can change the sound based on firemode you can change anything you define in the appropriate subsection of the weapon.

The weapon that will probably cause the most problem will be the AK-PSO since it fires both single and full. Basically you will end up having to define a bunch of fire modes in the weapon config. and then toggle through them using the F key. Of course this brings problems with it if you are using say a M4GL with ACOG because you would have to step through whatever zero mode configs you have defined before you could get to the GL.

Doc_69

[amrax 0]

Doc_69 why the hell do you wanna use firemodes for this?

Why don't you just do it the right way?

Oh and we can fix the MOA accuracy with the windage dail a bit when we can adjust it. Just to add to the discussion...

[whisper 0]

Is it me, or amrax doesn't make any sense?

On top of being insulting to everyone, ofc.

[Animal-22 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]I can see why they didn't introduce wind.. there's no way to tell the direction and strength in the game unless someone told it to you (or you had a weather station thingie).

OMG, another one who knows nothing about sniping...

Where did you get your information from, discovery channel? Go take a class.

Hmmm.... not my quote... don't know where this came from. However, the ability to surmise windspeed and direction in-game does make for interesting discussion. How WOULD they execute if it existed?

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]If you eliminate ballistics

I never said that.

Actually... yes you did. That's why I quoted you directly. Here it is again in case you forgot already...

Quote[/b] ]OMG I can't believe you just said that.... man

Why don't you go play BF2 or Delta Force, and NO it is not “too difficult†AT ALL!

NO ELEVATION MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT!!!

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]I'm sure you have pulled of successful 600m+ hits but I'll garauntee that you can't pull off a 1st shot hit at more than 600m using only the mil-dot scope to range the target. If you would like to prove it to me and another 3rd party on this board, let's set it up.

Dude, didn't you read the post where I wrote that I figured it out?!

I just brought it up so a better solution would be coded instead of the the mil dot system, which really isn't as fun!

Which one, I wrote below.

I figured you would back out of this. Anyway, the mil-dot system is more challening and thereby more rewarding when used successfully and thereby more fun for those who know how to use it.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]A scope zeroed at 500m would make it possible to go to about 850m reliably.

Wrong, remember what I said about the M24? I pulled off many shots at 650m while its zerod on 300m! 350M difference... that is what you mend isn't it?

Presuming it is actually MOA accurate yes (the 500m zerod version)...

Again, you show your lack of knowledge of real-world ballistics. The bullet drop over the 350m travelled between 300m and 650m is less than the bullet drop over the 350m travelled between 500m and 850m. So the 350m difference in both cases is NOT the same. Also, the shot group variance increases with distance, so results become less reliable the further distance the projectile travels.

Quote[/b] ]Something so simple, even animal22's game has it...

I have my OWN GAME?!?! SUHWEET!    I'll bet you play it all the time!

[Animal-22 0]

Doc_69 why the hell do you wanna use firemodes for this?

Why don't you just do it the right way?

Oh and we can fix the MOA accuracy with the windage dail a bit when we can adjust it. Just to add to the discussion...

Exactly HOW do you fix "MOA accuracy" with the windage dial? What exactly IS "MOA accuracy?"

[frederf 0]

Amrax is either troll or a very angry nonsensical person. Either way, he's not worth your time.

[rom_un 0]

"MOA accuracy" is the precision of the rifle+bullet system. IRL the only way to change it is to make a longer canon or use different cartbridges. Same case for initspeed.(Armax was right when he said "the M24 is 1 MOA off": 0,5 to 1,5, it depend of the cartbridge used)

If you want more precise (unrealistic) weapons, this is in the modding topic or use the M107.

Not the place here.

Here, we talking about the elevation (and windage if the wind is simulated). It´s just giving an offset to the scope, not changing arma physics laws.

2 method to snipe:1. shoot and look the impact, then adjust and fire the second shot (canadian way9

2. calulate, offset and first shot hit. Like real one.

I´m not a fanatic of the ´F´key, hard to switch to grenade trowing if you have 5 or 10 different elevation. In a other hand, this solution is the best for the simulation. Tank you Maddmatt.