Where are the girls?

[jasono 0]

True,but you always get some idiot posting videos on YouTube of having children fighting with an AK.

Each requires new animations which all have to be recaptured on motion capture.

If you get a motion capture studio and a female in a suit with plastic balls on the end, then send BI an email and they tell you what to do

[bravo 6 0]

Daniel @ Mar. 02 2007,09:33)]It means you have to go through the process of making skeletons and animations for them.

i dont know if its complicated.

Im not a animator.

i just know they have that machine with dot that put in all your body that copy all movements to the computer..

Is it so hard to do?

[ThePredator 0]

Oh great, I see it coming:

in coop someone will definetly do the yoke to choose a mean looking male face and give it a high pitch female voice.

Already happened.

It sounds quite disturbing and playing with such dudes is not fun.

[quiet_man 8]

Problem was they could not fit the voice acting on one DVD

QuietMan

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]The same way that children are more or less universally excluded from games

So ?

I think it´s quite disturbing to have children in a wargame. It´s bad enough that alot of them actually have to be in warzones in real life.

If you want to make a disgusting game that gets no clearance on half of the globe go for it and join the rows of Postal idiots who can´t get enough of splatter and in my opinion have a serious malfunction in their head.

As for Arma. No thank you.

[bravo 6 0]

Quote[/b] ]The same way that children are more or less universally excluded from games

So ?

I think it´s quite disturbing to have children in a wargame. It´s bad enough that alot of them actually have to be in warzones in real life.

If you want to make a disgusting game that gets no clearance on half of the globe go for it and join the rows of Postal idiots who can´t get enough of splatter and in my opinion have a serious malfunction in their head.

As for Arma. No thank you.

read my signature

edit: can't even type signature at this stage

[Balschoiw 0]

So ?

Feeling the need to reenact the Beslan school massacre in Arma ?

How about making it real and taking the consequences to Arma ?

Means you get sent to jail for deliberatly killing kids in warzones, for Arma it would be disabling your version and banning the player ID.

Talking about reality, how´s that ?

Grow up.

[bravo 6 0]

no need to be ofended.

anyway.. i think BIS will do the right decision even if they do what you said.

I still have my point of view and i still agree what Suma wrote.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]anyway.. i think BIS will do the right decision even if they do what you said.

Marek has 2 kids on his own and he has taste and some reasonable thinking onboard. So yes, I guess the ones here that are really asking for kids in Arma are having a hard time and I do stand by my point that they have a problem in their head.

What´s next ? Ading a rape action function because it´s reality of war ?

For me that´s simply disgusting and people who support such are ranking so low in my list of forum users that I will have a hard time taking them serious again.

I´m out of here.

[low light 0]

When I saw the title for this topic I wondered if it was some kind of survey to see how many girls there were in the BIS community; there are two as far as I am aware, any more? If there are...How you doin'

Having more of the fairer sex (though at the moment in time, they all seem to be pretty unfair) in game would be worth while. I have a feeling that an expansion pack would fix the issue. We need more civilian females, but as for modelling them as soldiers, wouldn't it cause issues with regard to the number of females that might appear in one session as AI troops, you could have a whole platoon (if you're going that big) made up of female troops, not that this would be a problem, but I think it wouldn't necessarily reflect 'real life'. On a sillier note, I don't know one man who would want his a**e kicked by a bunch of 'pixelated' females - think of the damage to the ego

[mattxr 9]

True,but you always get some idiot posting videos on YouTube of having children fighting with an AK.

I'm afraid to tell you mate thats just life as we see it today.

If you go to some parts of Africa you Will see a child with an Ak.

Yes it shouldn't be, but thats just how it is.

Anyways it could be good for emotional cutscenes just remember that mission [Abandoned Armys]

[bravo 6 0]

I didn't say i was going to use "children/women" as a war tool or a direct victim, know what i mean..

I just tought of then to interact in a good way (not bad) with some missions i made or i will probably make.

maybe there could exist restrictions for those matters, who knows.

[MamiyaOtaru 1]

So ?

Feeling the need to reenact the Beslan school massacre in Arma ?

So what if someone does? Why wouldn't someone want to make a mission where you try to stop it from happening as it did?

Not sure why you assume children in ArmA would be targets. You want some motivation to get a mission done right and a town liberated without collateral damage? Throw some kids in there.

Super Columbine Massacre RPG. Read the article. Why is a game slammed so harshly when movies about the same subject are not? You're carrying some baggage.

Seriously, if the devs put children in they wouldn't use them to replace the shooting range models. They'd be there for realism. Not everyone feels the same as you about sanitizing war simulators.

Now I don't think the game really needs them, but it would add to the realism, and I don't think it would be sick.

[quiet_man 8]

I´m out of here.

this is not a good way to convince someone that he is wrong

There are limits, but they are not fix. Some of todays games would have created an outcry in the past.

Kids and killing are hopefully something we will never mix. But I could think of a limited presentation for ambience:

- No damage

- Not playable

- On first sign of fighting they are removed (e.g. runing to a house and then deleted)

Indeed I would prefer all civs in game handled this way.

It would also remove cpu load when fighting starts. So mission builders could do large ambience without harming game play.

QuietMan

[Baff1 0]

The more civilian models the better. Kids and women both.

I've made loads of missions where the differentiation between friendly and rebel is part of the theme.

I regularly use civilian populations. All extra tools gratefully accepted.

@the uptight people.

It might suprise you to know that I don't morally approve of shooting adults either. Or even the donkey. Needless to say I will not be playing Super Mario just because the game theme is more in tune with my personal morality.

[Dr. Mojo- PhD 0]

@everything Balschoiw said

You need to chill out. First of all, your reasoning is specious as hell. The presumption that people who want an accurate demographic breakdown in a SIMULATOR have mental problems is ... actually probably indicative of a mental problem of your own. Reenacting the Breslan school massacre because there's "children in the game" is retarded.

By that logic, of course, I could say that you are as evil as serial killer Aileen Wuornos or cannibal-murderer Armin Meiwes since you demand that there be ONLY men in the game so clearly you support violence against men.

What more do you want, Balschoiw? A sever penis function in the action menu?

You don't get to pick and choose how logic works and when certain arguments are true and when they aren't. Either people who want to see women and children in the game endorse violence against women and children AND THEREFORE people like you who want only men in the game endorse violence against men, or neither are true.

[Balschoiw 0]

So what do childrens add to a combat game ?

Realism ? If you had asked for cluster bombs, extended military features ok, but you seriously ask for something that is morally very dubious.

Why don´t you just give it a try, dial 911 and tell them you want to shoot up some kids or see them in action running from shootings ?

If you haven´t learned about values it´s time that you do so.

Children and a wargame do not mix up well.

Thankfully BIS has always followed a morale line you, who are asking for kids in Arma, obviously never had or failed to learn.

I have been to actual conflicts and I have seen what war does to children, so no I don´t want to see that in a GAME.

Quote[/b] ]this is not a good way to convince someone that he is wrong

Still it´s my decision as I simply do see no point in debating an issue that is not on the BIS to-do list.

As I said, it´s nice to know what standards some people have, but I certainly am not the one to convince them of global accept morale standards. Arma wouldn´t even been sold in most countries if there were children ingame as it would be put on the index in 1,2,3.

So if you see nothing wrong with your "wishes" for inmates in a war-sim, it´s good to know that there are people who do actually think before they act. If you can´t do the thinking on your own in a morally right setup you have to rely on the producers of such game that they fullfill their responsibilities.

Quote[/b] ]You need to chill out. First of all, your reasoning is specious as hell. The presumption that people who want an accurate demographic breakdown in a SIMULATOR have mental problems is ... actually probably indicative of a mental problem of your own.

Yeah sure. Keeping inmates out of a war shooter is so off...

What´s next ? Lets have some disabled ones ingame as they are part of the demographic breakdown ? Wouldn´t it be fun to shoot up Willi Wheelchair ?

Quote[/b] ]By that logic, of course, I could say that you are as evil as serial killer Aileen Wuornos or cannibal-murderer Armin Meiwes since you demand that there be ONLY men in the game so clearly you support violence against men.

Pure bullshit as I already posted that I opt for women ingame. You better read first, then talk, not vice versa.

Quote[/b] ]I've made loads of missions where the differentiation between friendly and rebel is part of the theme.

I regularly use civilian populations. All extra tools gratefully accepted.

Baff1, I do think that you are a more reasonable mission editor, but the mob screaming for kids are not really known for their reasonable missions. So while it may add to atmosphere in a mission done by a serious guy it would do much more harm in the hands of a guy who has neither high moral standards nor the intention to use the kids in a way that would be acceptable.

What you all don´t see, apart from the moral issues, is that BIS

would get an international slam in the sack if they would release kids for their game. Even if implemented as suggested (wich doesn´t make little sense anyway, as it would be nothing than eyecandy for some, or eyepuke for others) it would be a company that would put kids in a wargame. Something that is assumed globally wrong.

Name me wargames that have children in them apart from the crappy Boiling point shooter.

So if it´s so universally wanted as you all say, why are there not more games with kids ?

If you´re moral level is somewhat not up to reality the developers of the games have to take care that such things don´t go into their published products and they do that.

I don´t even know a single comprehensive mod for OFP that introduced children. Don´t you think that at least this is an indication that some of your thinking is a bit off ? Those are mods done by gamers for gamers. Makes you think, no ?

[DieAngel 0]

okay lets go back on topic, please, it wasn't really about childrens, or donkeys, it was about womens.

Animation wise i don't think women soldiers would really need a different animation set. Civilians, maybe, but prolly not trained soldiers.

As for the voice, yes women character might need a special voice setup.

Well from past experience in OFP women's faces don't go too well on the male shapes

I don't think i am asking the moon. it's just it would make the game a bit more blending to have a few female soldiers/civilians.

-Yes i can see the use for some urban operation to have a good amount of civilians in a city and some resistance to "sweep", maybe protect a village or something. The challenge to avoid civilian casualties is a pretty nice idea and having women civies would be nice.

But hm... what is the regulation haircut for womens in army? just wondering.

[bravo 6 0]

What you all don´t see, apart from the moral issues, is that BIS

would get an international slam in the sack if they would release kids for their game. Even if implemented as suggested (wich doesn´t make little sense anyway, as it would be nothing than eyecandy for some, or eyepuke for others) it would be a company that would put kids in a wargame. Something that is assumed globally wrong.

Name me wargames that have children in them apart from the crappy Boiling point shooter.

So if it´s so universally wanted as you all say, why are there not more games with kids ?

If you´re moral level is somewhat not up to reality the developers of the games have to take care that such things don´t go into their published products and they do that.

I don´t even know a single comprehensive mod for OFP that introduced children. Don´t you think that at least this is an indication that some of your thinking is a bit off ? Those are mods done by gamers for gamers. Makes you think, no ?

maybe thats why BIS did not put more animals or will not put more wildlife in the game.

all converge to the same moral issue..

edit: as DieAngel said i agree. Would be nice to have diff females with diff voice or they will look all the same even with diff dresses

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]maybe thats why BIS did not put more animals or will not put more wildlife in the game.

all converge to the same moral issue..

Yeah sure...

[Heatseeker 0]

You are all so sensitive about virtual war... NOT!

The other day i imagined a modification based on a real life event where colateral damage (even intentional) happened, if i could create this i would not glorify the event as a great and clean war effort full of tactical action and 'fun'.

Its about time someone breaks the "rules", im tired of seeing war games advertising WAR as something fun. Weapons being awsome, bombs fantastic, tanks and bombers, etc...

Currently we have teenagers playing "realistic" games and we have 19 year old boys living and dealing with the real thing.

War results in dead and injured people, civilians always suffering the most. If i were to design a WAR game or modification i would throw as much reality to it as possible, if people would get angry, shocked, sad, revolted then it would have been a good job at last. Atleast better than glorifying something that shouldnt be glorified so much...

Games advertise violence, weapons and even promote them, they should show the bad side of things, have an emotional impact too.

If i make a mission where you have to mop up a previously bombed area and you find a civie card with a dead family inside it will make you think about things...

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]The same way that children are more or less universally excluded from games

So ?

I think it´s quite disturbing to have children in a wargame. It´s bad enough that alot of them actually have to be in warzones in real life.

If you want to make a disgusting game that gets no clearance on half of the globe go for it and join the rows of Postal idiots who can´t get enough of splatter and in my opinion have a serious malfunction in their head.

As for Arma. No thank you.

lol, you old over-determined German!

Honestly, since OFP/ArmA are simulations I would consider (and not enjoy) a stronger civillian factor to increase realism. Nowadays when an attack is being planed the level of firepower you throw into a battle is not decided by the enemies strength but by the amount of civillians around him.

ArmA simply is not capable to simulate an operation in Iraq because the most important factor, the risk of civillian casualties is not part of the function.

Maybe thats a project for the future. At least the map should indicated populated and non-populated areas and at the mission ending you should get a summary of how many potential civillians you put at risk during your attack.

I think Iraq shows us how much impact the civillian factor has on tactics.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Wouldn´t it be fun to shoot up Willi Wheelchair ?

Actually, if I recall correctly, Scud made a wheelchair vehicle addon for OFP... I only used it to drive around a bit but I deleted it after I found out that it really was boringly slow... And no, I never made a mission where a unit in a wheelchair was fired at, or what I would expect to be more popular, driven over ([irony]how many points would that be? [/irony]).

Back on topic, I'm all in favour of the return of the amazon pack, especially Bunni the unarmed medic! She looks like my girlfriend and whenever I go sightseeing I take her with me!

[MamiyaOtaru 1]

I don't think anyone is demanding children in the game.  That doesn't stop me from trying to figure out why you are so morally outraged by the idea.  Having within a virtual world pixels that happen to look like children is somehow infinitely worse than having pixels that look like grownups?  Let's try and remember they aren't real.  Out of curiosity, do you object to child avatars in Second Life?  Or is that ok, in line with Europe's general tolerance of sex and hatred of (fake) violence in movies and the like?

Having a wheelchair bound person in game.. you mention it like it's obviously abhorrent (like it's something that automatically wins your argument for you).  Why?  It would be tough to do a "Retake the Achille Lauro" mission without one.  Would seeing it happen in game upset you more than reading about it, or seeing the movie or opera based on it?  Would it be a bad thing if it did?

Bad stuff happens in war.  I can understand your desire to immerse yourself in part of it without confronting the true horror, but sometimes that needs to be done.  Did you object to Schindler's List for presenting humanities worst tendencies?  Sure you could visit Dachau yourself instead of seeing the movie, but not everyone can.  The movie brought it to a larger audience, who needed to see it.  Now why can't a war simulator do something similar?  It might not be fun, but it would be effective.

You seem to want ArmA to be fun, and that's fine. I just don't see pretend violence against pretend people who happen to be young or infirm as this absolute taboo like you do, as something indescribably more abhorrent than pretend violence against pretend people who happen to be men.  Games can be a serious medium.  If a movie can do it, a game can too, perhaps more powerfully as the player is actually interacting with events.

Strident rejection of things with which one is uncomfortable with, even when presented in a setting that is not actually real, comes across as very prudish.  Those things do happen in real life, ignoring them doesn't help. So try and answer some of my questions without calling me a psycopath.

Anyway, this seems OT, but I think BIS left women out of the game for the same reasons they left children out, I think it is at least related.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]I don't think anyone is demanding children in the game.

Read the thread again.

Quote[/b] ]That doesn't stop me from trying to figure out why you are so morally outraged by the idea.

Because I have been on the other side of the gun in real life and I have experienced what war does to children.

They not only get killed but are branded for the rest of their lives with the things they have seen, experienced and I know it can destroy them.

I know a girl from former yugoslavia who is about 12 years old now and still jumps under the table if she hears a jet flying over the house. This is something that is not funny and it can´t be portrayed in a videogame. When you shut down the mission there is no thinking about what has happened and as you say it´s a game so noone will be really thinking about the effects of war on the kids in real life.

The basic concept of a game is to entertain people. I do not find entertaining moments in having inmates in a computergame that mostly deals with killing.

I´m even taking it further. Do you think army´s only use adapted computergames for their training for technical reasons ?

It´s about getting used to something that you can hardly simulate. It´s about aiming at people, get the routine and shooting them. I´m not saying that this is bad, it´s just another method of training, but I really don´t know where children should have their part there.

Quote[/b] ]Out of curiosity, do you object to child avatars in Second Life?

I don´t know if you have followed the latest Second Life exploits of that. There are users who are practising childsex with the avatars, so yes, I do have strong objections there. The whole Second life thing is really a bit worrying imo.

Quote[/b] ]Having a wheelchair bound person in game.. you mention it like it's obviously abhorrent (like it's something that automatically wins your argument for you). Why? It would be tough to do a "Retake the Achille Lauro" mission without one. Would seeing it happen in game upset you more than reading about it, or seeing the movie or opera based on it? Would it be a bad thing if it did?

Arma as any other "shooters" has a too limited selection of interaction to actually simulate the real deal here so better scrap it before it gets ridiculous. You can´t even interact with other characters, so how the hell are you supposed to interact with disable people ingame that are in need of human assistance. So either it´s done very poor or it doesn´t work. You can´t script real life. And I already see some triggerhappy teens posting their "lol screenshots" of shooting the Wheelchair Willi or pushing him overboard. Very funny, really.

Quote[/b] ]Bad stuff happens in war. I can understand your desire to immerse yourself in part of it without confronting the true horror, but sometimes that needs to be done.

Been there, done that. Maybe that´s why I still like to see Arma more as a game than a reflection of my memories. In the end it´s supposed to be fun to play a game, not to get you into Deja Vue´s.

One more thing, even if we had supercomputers with smell generators, you would never really get the feeling of a real combat situation. It may come close, but it´s still a simulation, not real life and you can be happy about that.

Quote[/b] ]Did you object to Schindler's List for presenting humanities worst tendencies?

Comparing Schindlers List with Arma is more than comparing apples with stones. Arma has no message. It doesnt say: War is bad, don´t play the game.

Quote[/b] ]Strident rejection of things one are uncomfortable with, even when presented in a setting that is not actually real, comes across as very prudish. Try and answer some of my questions without calling me a psycopath.

If i would stridently reject things I would not play OFP from the beginning and would not play ArAs from the beginning. But I do have a right to voice my concerns about things that neither contribute to actual gameplay and imo are really displaced.

Quote[/b] ]Anyway, this seems OT, but I think BIS left women out of the game for the same reasons they left children out, I think it is at least related.

Again, BIS did not include women in the initial release because of the adjustments and new animations for women. A Dev already stated that. Children are a totally different topic and have never been on the list for BIS, neither for OFP nor for Arma afaik.

End of offtopic now from my side.

*hands thread back to author*