Vsync and Vista

[bionic 10]

Quote[/b] ]F o r c e W a r e G r a p h i c s D r i v e r s , R e l e a s e 1 0 0 V e r s i o n 1 0 0 . 6 5

Not NVIDIA Issues

This section lists issues that are not due to the NVIDIA driver as well as features

that are not meant to be supported by the NVIDIA driver for Windows Vista.

Windows Vista Limitations

These are behaviors that may be different from Windows XP and are related directly to the Windows Vista operating system.

• Selecting Vertical Sync (vsync) from the NVIDIA Control Panel has no effect with DirectX applications.

Due to architectural changes in the new Windows Vista Window Display Driver Model (WDDM), the graphics driver can no longer disable vsync from its own driver or Control Panel.

Selecting this option from the NVIDIA Control Panel will have no effect with DirectX applications.

For applications that use Direct3D on Windows Vista, use the vertical sync setting within the application. We are adjusting the help text in the NVIDIA Control Panel to

make this clearer to our customers.

Dont´t know how often this question as been asked but since iam no programmer i have no clue what this exactly means and i don´t know the answer. Here again,,

Iam running Vista and my TFT runs @60Hz so my max. FPS ingame will be 60FPS but it drops down to 20-21 and below if there is some movement. On my XP System with Vsync of it was much more smooth and the lowest FPS was araound 30.

So my question is will it be possible in future to turn Vsync off in ArmA itself?

I don´t know what vsync is doing but i know ArmA runs much more smooth with set off and it is annoying it doesn´t on Vista.

So maybe i will get an official statement from Maruk if it would be possible ingame to turn Vsync off in future or is there an other workaround. I love ArmA i buyed a new System for it but the new OS is limitating my Hardware... maybe you can help us with this probleme?

greets

[Jack-UK 0]

Correct me if im wrong.. but doesnt ArmA run OpenAL so it CAN be turned off...?

Plus im sure the GFX cards will get drivers out eventually to turn off Vsync...

[bionic 10]

Quote[/b] ]Correct me if im wrong.. but doesnt ArmA run OpenAL so it CAN be turned off...?

If i would know i wouldn´t ask

Quote[/b] ]Plus im sure the GFX cards will get drivers out eventually to turn off Vsync...

No read the Nvidia driver statement i quoted in my first post.

Quote[/b] ]Due to architectural changes in the new Windows Vista Window Display Driver Model (WDDM), the graphics driver can no longer disable vsync from its own driver or Control Panel.

Selecting this option from the NVIDIA Control Panel will have no effect with DirectX applications.

If it really isn´t possible this s*cks big time.

greets

[Balschoiw 0]

Arma is not meant to be run on Vista.

That´s what it says on the box and that´s why you get compability issues.

[Maddmatt 1]

Correct me if im wrong.. but doesnt ArmA run OpenAL so it CAN be turned off...?

Plus im sure the GFX cards will get drivers out eventually to turn off Vsync...

OpenAL is the sound system, nothing to do with graphics. Vista no longer allows the graphics card drivers to control Vsync by the looks of things.

I think BIS would need to fix this by adding Vsync as an option in the game.

I'm glad I'm still with XP, I will wait a bit before I get Vista.

[bionic 10]

Arma is not meant to be run on Vista.

That´s what it says on the box and that´s why you get compability issues.

Oh come on if you really doesn´t have to say anything plz keep of my Thread.

Never read on my box that it isn´t meant to run on Vista in 1 Year 80% of us will run Vista so this means ArmA = dead?Also was OFP meant to run on WinXP?

So plz. stay on Topic or keep out.

This is a question and i want it to be answered maybe there is a solution maybe not. I was playing OFP since demo release and for most problems there was a fix so why not on this one....

[Red Spar 0]

I'm running Arma on Vista on a Intel 6600 w/Nividia 8800GTX w the latest 100.65 drivers. I have my LCD monitors set at 75hz.

Even though I turn Vsync off in the control panel, my framerates (w/fraps) peg out in the game at 75fps - no more.

Why Vista does this is beyond me. Other than that my games run fine.

I am willing to bet this has something to do with future compatibility with XBOX 360 games.

[bionic 10]

I'm running Arma on Vista on a Intel 6600 w/Nividia 8800GTX w the latest 100.65 drivers. I have my LCD monitors set at 75hz.

Even though I turn Vsync off in the control panel, my framerates (w/fraps) peg out in the game at 75fps - no more.

Why Vista does this is beyond me. Other than that my games run fine.

I am willing to bet this has something to do with future compatibility with XBOX 360 games.

No i don´t think this has much to do with XBOX 360 games but more with direct3d vs openGL.

Microsoft only wants to see their products to be sold and how would you do this......?

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Oh come on if you really doesn´t have to say anything plz keep of my Thread.

I have something to say. It is that your issues are a result of Windows Vista. On my box it says clearly that Arma works with XP/Win2000.

Of course they don´t write something like: This will not work on Vista, Linux, Nasa spaceshuttle op systems or a Sinclair ZX 81.

I also doubt that all users will switch to Vista. Why should they ?

You´re problem is homegrown, as you use a platform that is not supported by Arma by now.

[JimLad 0]

Nonsense, I tried running ArmA in XP and got exactly the same performance and LOD issues as in Vista

[Maddmatt 1]

Quote[/b] ]Oh come on if you really doesn´t have to say anything plz keep of my Thread.

I have something to say. It is that your issues are a result of Windows Vista. On my box it says clearly that Arma works with XP/Win2000.

Of course they don´t write something like: This will not work on Vista, Linux, Nasa spaceshuttle op systems or a Sinclair ZX 81.

I also doubt that all users will switch to Vista. Why should they ?

You´re problem is homegrown, as you use a platform that is not supported by Arma by now.

And that means we are not allowed to troubleshoot problems with running the game on Vista? It works, and some people are just trying to sort out an annoying problem.

You've been on this forum for a while, I wouldn't expect you to make annoying posts like that.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]And that means we are not allowed to troubleshoot problems with running the game on Vista?

So how do you want to troubleshoot something that´s a Vista limitation and therefore a Microsoft issue, not a BIS issue and certainly nothing that can be fixed by users here.

Quote[/b] ]You've been on this forum for a while, I wouldn't expect you to make annoying posts like that.

Yawn...

Do you think you sound grown-up with phrases like that ?

This is the Arma troubleshooting thread, that means that it is meant to be for Arma troubleshooting.

Running Arma on Vista is not supported by BIS right now, and dealing with Microsoft Vista flaws and issues is not even closely related to neither BIS or Arma, so before you feel the need to comment you´d better read what the issue is actually about and then come in again.

If there´s a place where that issue is adressed right, it´s the Microsoft support for Vista.

[Dwarden 1125]

ok, now there is reason to implement/use triple buffering option

in meanwhile i'm sure force TB works even under Vista

[Nitrius 0]

Yea agree, it would be nice to see a vsync option ingame. Running x64 vista myself, and the game is running quite nice, but i myself noticed that forcing the vsync off in the nvidia control panel dosen't work.

[bionic 10]

Quote[/b] ]I have something to say. It is that your issues are a result of Windows Vista. On my box it says clearly that Arma works with XP/Win2000.

Of course they don´t write something like: This will not work on Vista, Linux, Nasa spaceshuttle op systems or a Sinclair ZX 81.

I also doubt that all users will switch to Vista. Why should they ?

You´re problem is homegrown, as you use a platform that is not supported by Arma by now.

If i would use Win98 i would agree with your statement making things backward compatible isn´t the normal way to go. But iam using Vista the OS which will come with most of the new PC´s you will buy today. And only because you don´t want to upgrade your System erveryone else who will get Vista in future will come up with the same problem and they will be more and more.

Quote[/b] ]So how do you want to troubleshoot something that´s a Vista limitation and therefore a Microsoft issue, not a BIS issue and certainly nothing that can be fixed by users here.

So thats simply not correct if you would have read the Nvidia Driver release notes you would know that it is possible to use the ingame Vsync option to solve this problem. A lot of games have this option to turn Vsync on and off so my question to Maruk is would it be possible to add this option to ArmA.

Also with OFP there where problems related with WinXP which got fixed and on my OFP boxed it was written Win98/WinME/Win2000 if i remember correct.

Quote[/b] ]This is the Arma troubleshooting thread, that means that it is meant to be for Arma troubleshooting.

So when i can´t turn off Vsync in ArmA which is supported by alot of games today it is ArmA troubleshooting related.

And as i said before i don´t know much about programming but i think my question can be answered in 1 or 2 sentences.

"Yes it is possible to add such a function to ArmA but we don´t know when we will add it or we ever will add it"

or

"No it isn´t possible because the programmcode of ArmA or because it is really only a OS limitation which can´t be fixed"

Quote[/b] ] so before you feel the need to comment you´d better read what the issue is actually about and then come in again.

You should better read between the lines and you would know what the issue is actually about then come in again.

Quote[/b] ]If there´s a place where that issue is adressed right, it´s the Microsoft support for Vista.

If there is no way to get this problem solved by BIS i agree with you 100% but why shouldn´t i ask BIS when it is maybe possible for them to get this problem solved?

And my last words i want to say iam not one of those who are crying all the day about BIS i like ArmA and i only want to play it on Vista as i could on XP. And everyone who will get Vista will have the same problem so i will not be the only one who will come up with this question.

greets

[Jack-UK 0]

1) Thanks for the Clarification Madmatt, i just thought i read something somewhere about the game and this issue when vista was released...

2) Those who claim that ArmA does not 'support' Vista, obviously it was designed and released before windows vista so it WONT be vista 'supported'. That doesnt mean to say it wont run or people arent entitled to troubleshooting, they simply do not have an optimised gaming performance (yet). Whether you like it or not, Vista will become the new XP and eventually most people will move over to Vista. (especially those buying new hardware from companies like dell etc).

3) It mystified me to way Vsync wasnt allowed to be disabled ingame in the first place, its usually a common setting. Im sure BIS are aware of this thanks to this thread so hopefully they will fix this in an upcoming patch (not necessarily 1.05)

[bionic 10]

Quote[/b] ]3) Im sure BIS are aware of this thanks to this thread so hopefully they will fix this in an upcoming patch (not necessarily 1.05)

Don´t know BIS is aware of this but as Shadow said i can mail this Problem to BIS support so i can adress it directly to one of the Team. Maybe we will get an answer this way and hopefully this problem can be fixed.

Lets see i will write an email now and hope it doesn´t get lost in the spamfilter because i think it is a important question for all Vista users.

greets

[Maddmatt 1]

Yawn...

Do you think you sound grown-up with phrases like that ?

This is the Arma troubleshooting thread, that means that it is meant to be for Arma troubleshooting.

Running Arma on Vista is not supported by BIS right now, and dealing with Microsoft Vista flaws and issues is not even closely related to neither BIS or Arma, so before you feel the need to comment you´d better read what the issue is actually about and then come in again.

If there´s a place where that issue is adressed right, it´s the Microsoft support for Vista.

Why are you in this thread? You are not helpful at all and are annoying.

"Do you think you sound grown-up with phrases like that ?"

Smart ass comments like that do nothing but piss people off.

[suma 8]

Yes it is possible to add such a function to ArmA but we don´t know when we will add it or we ever will add it.

[bionic 10]

Thank you Suma!

This gives me at least a 0,001% chance this option will show up in a future patch.

So the

Quote[/b] ]but we don´t know when we will add it or we ever will add it.

makes it an optimistic 50-50. My trust in BIS would make it a 100% so to make it a 51% chance you only need to say how much beer i have to buy for the team i will start to save my money for it.

greets

*Needs must when the devil drives*

[Talbot 0]

Until then is there absolutely no way to disable Vsync in ARMA on Vista?

[Jack-UK 0]

Fraid so

(at least not that i know of)

[Dudester 0]

Yes it is possible to add such a function to ArmA but we don´t know when we will add it or we ever will add it.

Don't mean to sound funny here, but if you can add it why is there a chance you may not add it.

Alot of people are going to be switching to windows vista, mainly because windows XP doesn't support DirectX 10 and we all know that the games company's are going to be looking to use Directx 10.

I am abit baffled here? why in one breath you say "it is possible to add" but then go on to say you may not add it.

If people want to look at playing the next generation of games like Crysis, they will have to look at directx 10 eventually, so surley it would make more sense to add the feature then not.

[Tracer Gun Kata 0]

Most machines now being sold come pre-loaded with a version of Vista ... time to help us Vista users BIS, we are growing in numbers

[dirtylarrygb 0]

Most machines now being sold come pre-loaded with a version of Vista ... time to help us Vista users BIS, we are growing in numbers

I plan on migrating to vista (ie not using XP anymore at all) by the end of the year. By the end of the year Dx10 game will start to appear and Duo/Quad core support will probably become more vista pacific. I'm sure by then MS, Nvidia, ATI etc will have done more hardwork with DX9 and drivers and DX10 and most of these issues will go. I would like to add I have noticed vsync OFF in many xbox 360 titles (ie screen tear! so I don't think VSYNC on is because of the 360 and vista. It's more someone somewhere at MS NVidia etc didn't add it yet.

I would imagine Vista fixes will happen over the year. Is it possible that MS might solve this issue before BIH have to write a line of code though?

I think there's a ton of games coming were you really might want to turn of Vsync!

I would also think its a sound commercial idea for BIH to get the Games for Windows logo on the ARMA box (yes it runs on vista) and make it very vista compatable over the next 12 months. because the sort of people who play ARMA are the sort of people who have better than average hardware and are going to migrate to Vista in the next 12 months.

To be honest, BIH 505/Atari should be working on getting ARMA given away with an 8800 or R600 not bloody supreme commander!