TrackIR Explained

[NaturalPoint-Warren 0]

* kestrel7e7,  I disagree very strongly with all the points in your various posts, and think your gross oversimplification of the technology comparison is misleading. NaturalPoint is commited to evolving human computer interaction and offering premium technology to consumers.  I would be happy to discuss each point over email or PM, if you're interested.

For everyone else, I'm planning to whip up a new video (after GDC) to delve deeper into the tech of the 3 types of color imagers used in webcams vs. TrackIR's imager, and explain what the TrackIR device's onboard image processor does, (and hopefully explain the specifics of the Wii, Eyetoy, and VisionCamera tech approaches/failings/history - if i can legally). Maybe cover the comparisons to vr goggles, triple monitors, and accelerometers, gyros, magnetic and sonar based motion tracking. Hopefully you will enjoy this from a tech perspective. If it seems relevent to post here, I'll make sure it's in some prexisting thread instead of creating a new one.

* I also hope to make another video that goes into more detail on TrackIR usage in ArmA's gameplay.

* Can we bring this thread back around to discussing the usage of "head tracking" in ArmA, and how a video could have better shown or explained things?

For example: I'm not keen on the touchy zoom. but instead of disabling it, i set my center point a few inches forward of where i sit, so I'm not always triggering zooms. I'm curious if this is a feasible fix for those who've turned z-axis off.

[Jack-UK 0]

I see nothing wrong at all with this thread. It is useful, just because its from the creators of the hardware doesnt mean its completely outlawed.

The TrackIR looks a great piece of kit, once i get some spare change i'll maybe invest in one!

I watched the first vid (didnt check within the thread to see if u made more) but my suggestions for improvements of the video is add picture in picture if possible.. and make more of an action vid maybe? Like using it in a battle rather than just running around shooting the odd patrolling AI or something? I know its more complicated to make, but it would be much cooler i feel.

[lwlooz 0]

What is fucking wrong with you people. I think I am going to make a list of people on this forum who never use their human ability to question things.

All that kestrel7e7 said was that tracking-technology could be improved and hopefully will , but you crazy people immediately flame the hell out of him for doing that. I can't see him having just said "TrackIr sucks".

What are this bloody forums for or even what is our bloody brain for when all everyone is only allowed to say: "THIS IS GREAT! I WILL PAY EVERYTHING FOR IT! PLEASE DONT IMPROVE IT,I WILL EVEN PAY MORE THE NEXT TIME AROUND."

[Jinef 2]

I purchased track IR 4 Pro for 200 USD/110 GBP.

It's aight. It does not make my life more fulfilling. However I would not say it's really bad value.

If you compare it to other things it is a 1 hour flying lesson in a light aircraft. It is a night out on the town with a level 3 hangover.

It's a new jacket from Next. It's a new mobile phone.

I think it can be better too, but it's not like your buying a new PC.

[MehMan 0]

I liked the video and it just makes me wish I had a bit more money to buy it. But unfortunatley the money I'll be getting I'll be saving for a computer upgrade in general. But TIR does look like a great piece for flying sims, the FS X part impressed me a lot, since it made it look like, well, more real, more 3d in a way.

[Barred 0]

MehMan it was not untill I saw a video that I was convinced. A friend mentioned it and I thought 'yeah alright what ever' unlill I saw a vid of it in action. It then took me 6 months before I could get around the wife to get a TIR1

lwlooz apart from the language I hope that the software and hardware improve over time you should have seen version 1. It tv was used as a comparison between TIR 1 and 4 it is like going from black and white tv to colour. With the active tracker going to Hi Def. Kestral just kept complaining that the price was too high in a different way with each post no matter what was said. So I made my coment because how he was comming across.

Any form of head movement TIR or Pan to Cam can add so much more to a game that untill you have tried it you would not believe it. Pan to Cam is a real PITA to get going for poor to average results. I have tried it with a reasonable webcam and it was very jerky and kept losing track. That is why I do not like Pan to Cam (going back to the tv anolagy it is like watching Nosferatu.)

[the amazing flight lizard 9]

Ok, so I went and got one. Now I just have to figure out how to use it in the demo. Anyone have any clue what to do? It's kinda kickin my butt

[NaturalPoint_Vincent 0]

1 - Make sure the TrackIR software is running

2 - Start ArmA

3 - That's it, the blue light should activate on the TrackIR unit, and you should have TrackIR support in the application.

[the amazing flight lizard 9]

Vincent, you have messages... I didn't wanna drag my tech support stuff into the forums

[NaturalPoint_Vincent 0]

No issues, have answered PM............

[crashdome 3]

For everyone else, I'm planning to whip up a new video (after GDC) to delve deeper into the tech of the 3 types of color imagers used in webcams vs. TrackIR's imager, and explain what the TrackIR device's onboard image processor does, (and hopefully explain the specifics of the Wii, Eyetoy, and VisionCamera tech approaches/failings/history - if i can legally). Maybe cover the comparisons to vr goggles, triple monitors, and accelerometers, gyros, magnetic and sonar based motion tracking. Hopefully you will enjoy this from a tech perspective. If it seems relevent to post here, I'll make sure it's in some prexisting thread instead of creating a new one.

I would very much like to hear/see this.

I purchased a Gyration Wireless Mouse about 3 years ago and was awestruck by the resolution and effectiveness. When I heard about the TIR, I was wondering if the gyroscope such as in the mouse would be a better alternative as it isn't limited by LOS. When a friend of mine was describing his son's Wii controller and how it works behind objects, I was thinking to my self "it has to be a gyroscope". Whatever the case, I have to admit that the need to place/calibrate/power an IR camera seems to be more limiting than using a few well placed gyroscopes and linked via a single USB cable or using rechargable batteries. Especially since calibration is really not needed. Also, every PC I have taken this Gyration mouse to has worked without the need for driver installation which to me means ALOT. It has worked flawlessly for me for 3 years and going, so reliability is really high also.

I realize the mouse only has 2DOF, but without much work even I could easily expand it to 3DOF and I am sure someone smarter than I could take it beyond that.

[kestrel7e7 0]

Quote[/b] ]your gross oversimplification of the technology comparison is misleading.

I can appreciate that there is a lot going on under the hood of TrackIR, since it uses NaturalPoint's extensive optical tracking experience with OptiTrack and the cameradll.dll interface, but all that really matters is the end result. I believe, as in the university paper I posted, that good results (a practical alternative) can be achieved with common, commercial, off the shelf webcams and some relatively simple tracking software. Currently, amateur 3rd party tracking software is not up to the task, but it could be in the future, the biggest barrier to it being the proprietary TrackIR interface. For example, Freetrack shows promise, with good movement out of game but poor movement in-game because it can't use the monopolising TrackIR interface and few games support 3rd party head tracking. This leaves no other option but some dodgy backdoor route with a poor result.

Back to topic, I found the following in another forum and thought it provided an interesting insight into the practicalities of gaming with TrackIR.

"TrackIR has been around for some time. It's certainly neat but it has some major flaws, some of which were already pointed out here. As well as a near rabid fan base, usually flight simmers, who will whine you into oblivion if you dare speak out about it.

1. Moving your head but your display remains stationary. Meaning you need a form of unnatural acceleration curve to minimize head movement and maximize view.

2. Due to the acceleration curve needed you lose stable viewing at the extents of the units movement. For example I'm looking down my airplane wing at something, well it's not fixed, it's at the top of the acceleration curve. Add to this the difference between a snap view in a dogfight per say, and a steady view for calling out bombing targets. You can have only one profile.

3. Aiming with your cross hair anywhere but at center. Think about how you move your mouse to acquire a target with a fixed cross hair in an FPS. Now think about moving your mouse to a non-fixed cross hair. -- (This has been mentioned before in this thread and indicates there are some difficulties with using headtracking in FPS games.)

4. What I mentioned can be hacked and deadzoned to make a playable experience, but you'll need to map keys to switch acceleration profiles, return to center, enable/disable the device. Something no TrackIR user will ever admit to but all require to get a playable experience.

5. TrackIR (Naturalpoint the developer) enabled a cheat in IL2 where only TrackIR users could get a full 360 view in the cockpit. Something rather important if you're flying in public dogfight servers. The fanboys raged about "people with better video cards get better performance and that's the same", and other half witted statements. Naturalpoint refused to fix the issue and instead hid it in an easily found registry entry, wink wink, and posted the hack on the TrackIR forums. Similar to the ASUS driver hacks in most people's opinions.

6. It's saving grace, in my opinion, are racing games. All you need is 15 degrees of travel to look into a curve. In this respect it's perfect.

All in all, neat piece of kit, but not ready for general gaming."

[Maximus_G 0]

TrackIR (Naturalpoint the developer) enabled a cheat in IL2 where only TrackIR users could get a full 360 view in the cockpit. Something rather important if you're flying in public dogfight servers. The fanboys raged about "people with better video cards get better performance and that's the same", and other half witted statements. Naturalpoint refused to fix the issue and instead hid it in an easily found registry entry, wink wink, and posted the hack on the TrackIR forums. Similar to the ASUS driver hacks in most people's opinions.

It's not NP, it's MG who allowed the 360deg. view rotation in their game via TIR interface.

And it wasn't a privilegy of TIR users, cos everybody could have the same "cheat" by using NewView.

-----

I could blame NP just for one thing: they promote their own program interface instead of using the standard DirectInput.

[Barred 0]

Kestrel where do you live (pm me if you want) not because I want 'to send the boys around' but to offer you a go of ArmA with a TIR.

Let have a look at your points which is why I offer you the shot at using a TIR because it is clear you have not.

Point 1. Yes you are totally right, there is an un-natural curve. There has to be unless you are using some form of viewing glasses so you screen moves with your head, which a previous poster said would be great. When a monitor is used it does take some time to get use to this movement ratio.

Point 2. Sorry it must be my English but it's meaning is confusing to me. The ratio of the view is controled by the software. It is you read movement that controles the speed of movement. You can have a straight ratio so your head does not have a 'dead zone' (which I prefere) or you can use a bell shaped curve with a 'dead zone' in the centre then there is an acceleration in relation to your head movement. When this is equal on both sides (left and right) depending on the requred axis then there is no noticable difference after a while. Remember when you first used a mouse, it took some time to become used to.

Point 3. "Aiming with your cross hair anywhere but at center. Think about how you move your mouse to acquire a target with a fixed cross hair in an FPS. Now think about moving your mouse to a non-fixed cross hair." Aiming is controled by your mouse at all times. If you are looking to the right and you see a target, you then have to move around to the target. When the view is in sight view (double click right mouse button) the head tracking is turned off.

Point 4. You only need one mapping curve (see point 2). There are 3 buttond that are mappable Pause, Centre, Precision. I have never needed to Pause the camera tracking because it is possible to map a dead zone in the centre if you want to. Centre I have always have mapped incase the the view wonders off the profile (which I have not needed to do with version4), I have even taken the head set off and when I put it back on the relationship was still the same. Precision, I really do not see why they are still there. The mapped keys use DirectInput. They are not used for hacking and since Version 4 the camera has not needed pausing 'because if your head goes out of range' (the tracking dots dissapear or get mixed up) Ver4 has kept the movement in it's head so when the dots come back into a recognisable position. phew!!

Point 5. In the original IL2, TIR was patched in and yes it was possible to do a 'Linda Blair' and NP removed it in the next version of the software. This really showed those who needed/wanted to do a 'LB'. Anyway this was also possible using the hat switch. You could always use auto pan in game to lock beyond the drawing distance which you could not obviosly do with TIR as you needed to see the target. There was not any Oh lets keep it as it gives our customers an advantage. Go reasd NP's forums going back about 3-4 years ago.

Point 6> Finally For open wheeled racin it is about 35deg off centre other wise you need the same panning axis that you need for flight sims to look over your shoulder and that is locked in Driver.

I am not having a go Kestrel just answering your points. Please Kestrel , if we are close then come around and try TIR in ArmA. I had missgivings of how TIR would be implemented in a FPS after years of simming with TIR.

[kestrel7e7 0]

Let have a look at your points which is why I offer you the shot at using a TIR because it is clear you have not.

Just to be clear, those points were not mine, but someone else's in a different forum, I copied and pasted them for discussion (note the quotes) and highlighted the part about head tracking in FPS games. I can only assume the author had hands-on experience with TrackIR.

Regardless, thanks for your comprehensive reply Barred.

[Barred 0]

Hey No Problem Kestrel. The offer is still there to give my TIR a shot.