No game based in east timor.

[NVReaper 0]

East timor is a very sensitive subject for many Australians and Indonesians, along with the east timorese people. I am expressing my sincere opposition to any game based in east timor. Not only is the conflict still fresh in the hearts and minds of many people, it is a source of division between Australia and Indonesia. People were massacred in east timor and us Australians got to witness alot of it on the news. Alot of terror and alot of senseless death.

Creating a game based on a fictional event, or even an event of history such as vietnam is one thing. However, creating a game based on a conflict which is still volatile and still fresh in the hearts and minds of the people in that region is a complete and utter slap in the face to anyone who served in east timor, or suffered from the conflict.

The massacre of the east timorese independance voters was a very real, very senseless atrocity that occured very recently. How DARE you make it into a computer game.

[Placebo 29]

Moving to OT

[NVReaper 0]

Its not off topic. Independance lost is based in east timor. How could it be off topic?

You cant silence me man. If necessary I will start my own website and get a petition going. I am not the only one who will be opposed to this. Its a complete and utter disgrace.

[Placebo 29]

Well you have your opinion, I have mine, I see your post as being the discussion of a recent conflict and it's correctness or lack of to be used in a computer game.

GD is for topics relating to things directly involved in or with Operation Flashpoint.

IL isn't out yet, there's little news about IL, whether it's an addon, whether it's a new game or whatever.

As for me trying to silence you, surely that smacks or paranoia? If I'd wanted to silence you I would have deleted the thread and blocked your IP, you raise an interesting topic for discussion, OT is the best place for that same discussion.

IMO if you feel so strongly about this subject as you seem to, then posting in the forum inhabited by fans of the game Operation Flashpoint isn't the best way to go about things anyway.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Creating a game based on a fictional event, or even an event of history such as vietnam is one thing. However, creating a game based on a conflict which is still volatile and still fresh in the hearts and minds of the people in that region is a complete and utter slap in the face to anyone who served in east timor, or suffered from the conflict.<span id='postcolor'>

Why is creating a game/mod based around THIS particular conflict any worse than basing it around WW2 or Vietnam where millions of men were massacred and senslessly died? Afterall the conflict these men faced is still fresh in their minds.

I dont know much about this conflict, so some decent background information would be nice.

[Placebo 29]

NVReaper I've consulted with two other moderators and they both feel as I do that this discussion is best suited to OT.

I'd like to make two points clear though.........

1. The fact it's been moved to OT in no way means I don't respect your opinion on this matter

2. The fact it's in OT now in no way means it will be taken any less lightly than if it were in GD.

The Bis guys will see this thread at some point tomorrow when they're at work, if they feel it's more suited to GD then they will move it there.

[NVReaper 0]

I am not opposed to operation flashpoint. I am a fan of operation flashpoint myself. Let me clarify that. I respect your authority in these forums and I thank you for allowing me to make my point.

My point has been made. It is now in the hands of BI to see whether or not they wish to market a game on such a volatile conflict which is bound to offend alot of people.

I have stated my opposition to it and I wont take it any further. If it comes out so be it. There are however others who may be extremely offended by it, especially in indonesia.

This is the last I will say on the matter.

thank you.

[Snake1999 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (NVReaper @ Feb. 04 2002,00:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1.

...the conflict still fresh in the hearts and minds of many people...

2.

...Creating a game based on a fictional event, or even an event of history such as vietnam is one thing...

3.

...creating a game based on a conflict which is still volatile and still fresh in the hearts and minds of the people...<span id='postcolor'>

hmmm.. Basing a game on the Vietnam war is okay? WW2 is okay, becasue it isn't "fresh in minds of many peopl"?

Say those words to a good old WW2 vets, or a vitnamn vet,, or any other war veteran. What war isn't fresh in their heart and mind. Tell that to a civilans from those specific time periods.

Isn't war something that will put a mark on you for the rest of your life? In your heart, in your mind...

[suchey 0]

Very little information has been released in regard to Independance Lost. Perhaps what we know so far is only the very beginning of a back story of something completely different. The newspaper "Story" which was released in the early version of the site may be only a first of many to come in the future. For all we know, Independecne lost could be based in the year 2010 with fictional developments in regard to a veriety of very different present day conflicts. We really dont know what is to come of this yet. I understand that its easy for us to get upset in regard to situations which hit close to our own home, but we should let the facts come to light before we begin emotionaly charged debates. Only when the facts as a whole regarding IL come to light will we be able to make informed criticisms.

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 0]

I think his point is WW2 vets are old grumps and dont play games on this miracle box we call the computer.

[christophercles 0]

I am totally of the opposite opinion to you on this NV, and i think you are full of shit. Go ahead and start up your website, but i think the amount of support you will get will amount to a total of - JACK SHIT -. Every single australian i have talked to about the prospect of a game based around east timor (even quite a few IN east timor, being in the peace keeping force) had nothing but positive things to say about it, being glad to finally having the chance for australians to be in a military game. And even if they are not all the MORE contrary to what you are saying, because it wont actually be based around real life events. If you would have actually READ the website, you would have already seen that they where making up imaginary events, such as the referendum that was supposedly held last month that never happened, and the interfet forces handing over controll of the peace keeping force.

[Snake1999 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ Feb. 04 2002,05:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think his point is WW2 vets are old grumps and dont play games on this miracle box we call the computer.<span id='postcolor'>

I've seen WW2 vets set up a lan and play Day Of Defeat, and totally loving it.

[shadow 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1.

...the conflict still fresh in the hearts and minds of many people...

2.

...Creating a game based on a fictional event, or even an event of history such as vietnam is one thing...

3.

...creating a game based on a conflict which is still volatile and still fresh in the hearts and minds of the people...<span id='postcolor'>

What about BIS' experience during the coldwar ? hu

As they said themselves; living on the "wrong" side of the curtain, living in fear... and they still made a game from that specific period......

To be honest; I really don't see the problem here, NVReaper.  

I think that by making a game based on real-life conflicts makes more people aware of them.

What's wrong with getting to learn more about an historic event/conflict?

[PHY_Hawkeye 0]

I gotta agree with everyone else here. I don't see a problem with creating a game based on a curent conflictm. Hell, if someone made a game based on the troubles in Northern Ireland (where I come from) I'd love it. As long as it was done tastefully and with respect to those concerned.

As for the comment about it being more acceptable to make games about WW2 or Vietnam. I say that's Bull. Doesn't matter when a conflict happened, the fact is it happened, many lives were lost and many were invariabley changed.

[red oct 2]

im a little uninformed on this somebody edgeumakate me a little to what happened

[hees 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Creating a game based on a fictional event, or even an event of history such as vietnam is one thing. However, creating a game based on a conflict which is still volatile and still fresh in the hearts and minds of the people in that region is a complete and utter slap in the face to anyone who served in east timor, or suffered from the conflict.<span id='postcolor'>

It has been done already. I quote:

'Flying Nightmares takes the concept of a hypothetical historical conflict in Timor between US liberation forces (which you are in command of), and Indonesian invasion forces. You are given the task of controlling a full scale US marine occupation of East Timor, as well as the arduous, yet challenging job of flying a US AV8 Harrier style 'jump jet' in combat missions, against ground and air opposition.'

http://technoculture.mira.net.au/polak4.htm

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Snake1999 @ Feb. 04 2002,15:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think his point is WW2 vets are old grumps and dont play games on this miracle box we call the computer.<span id='postcolor'>

I've seen WW2 vets set up a lan and play Day Of Defeat, and totally loving it.<span id='postcolor'>

There's only one phrase that descibes those vets...

Funky Grandpa!

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 0]

Well about Viet Nam and WW2, I know as a American I don't mind it because:

I love blasting Nazis

I love blasting Charlies

And I guess I'm gonna have fun blasting East Timoreans.

[Vir 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Creating a game based on a fictional event, or even an event of history such as vietnam is one thing. However, creating a game based on a conflict which is still volatile and still fresh in the hearts and minds of the people in that region is a complete and utter slap in the face to anyone who served in east timor, or suffered from the conflict.<span id='postcolor'>

You can only say that because vietnam most likely didnt effect you. My uncle was a gunner in a scout chopper in Vietnam, and my best friends father also died there. I dont care how long its been, its still 'fresh in my heart'

[Random 0]

I agree with everyone else in this thread. There's no problem with making a game about East Timor.

NVReaper, you basically say it's okay to make a game about Vietnam, but not about East Timor? Why? Australians were present in both conflicts, but you ony object to one of them? Besides, East Timor is not like Vietnam: from what I remember, there's been a total of *one* peace keeper casualty by enemy fire in East Timor since the conflict began. Compare that to Vietnam and your argument is pretty ridiculous.

[beno_83au 1369]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (NVReaper @ Feb. 04 2002,00:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">us Australians<span id='postcolor'>

Speak for yourself. I'm an Australian and I'm not opposed to this expansion. BRING ON THE EXPANSION! While the majority of Australia would be concerned about East Timor, thats nothing that should stop a game. And besides, playing in that sort of a tropical jungle type setting would be great fun!

[christophercles 0]

I think the reason he was getting hiffy was because it might have been about the election massacre, it would be like making a game about colombine, but weve already seen thats its not.

[Gorgi Knootewoot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (NVReaper @ Feb. 03 2002,23:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">East timor is a very sensitive subject for many Australians and Indonesians, along with the east timorese people. I am expressing my sincere opposition to any game based in east timor. Not only is the conflict still fresh in the hearts and minds of many people, it is a source of division between Australia and Indonesia. People were massacred in east timor and us Australians got to witness alot of it on the news. Alot of terror and alot of senseless death.

Creating a game based on a fictional event, or even an event of history such as vietnam is one thing. However, creating a game based on a conflict which is still volatile and still fresh in the hearts and minds of the people in that region is a complete and utter slap in the face to anyone who served in east timor, or suffered from the conflict.

The massacre of the east timorese independance voters was a very real, very senseless atrocity that occured very recently. How DARE you make it into a computer game.<span id='postcolor'>

What about wwII games then. It is still fresh for those who witnissed it. But the games are great. I'm sorry for you that you have seen it all and that, but if BIS wants to make a game based on it, i won't stop 'em. They make realistic games, and it is even more realistic when the events really happened. So there

[Daishi 0]

I have to agree that making a game about this is not very appropriate. The situation there is not yet settled. Thousands of Pro-Indonesia Militia still roam West Timor. Perhaps we should wait a few years before we have a game about it.

It is very much like making a game between Isrealis and Palestinians.

Someone is bound to be offended.

Note: OFP is different as Russia today is very different from Soviet Union of Cold War.

Let's be a bit more sensitive to the rest of the world.

[silent wings 0]

shut up. nv ur argument reeks of not cleverness