Changing to map when flying

[Hostilian 11]

The time it takes is dictated by your hardware. I got quite frustrated with the delay - especially when flying.

When I had my old graphics card (ATI 9800 pro) it took a lot longer to go to First Person from the map screen than with my new graphics card (ATI x1950 pro).

Its MUCH better than it was; however, it's still nowhere near as good as in OFP.

Cheers

#C

[Puma VII 0]

Perhaps a pilot in Armed Assault should print out a map and strap it to his lap. (Correction beat me to it.)

If I were all about realism, I would study and memorize the route I planned to fly (using my own waypoints and landmark navigation).  I'd have studied the surrounding areas where I planned to fly.  A GPS would be a backup, not what I was relying on.  It'd be a shame to lose my life and multi-million dollar aircraft because one simple system (the GPS) failed ("...and so I wandered until my fuel tanks ran dry and I crashed as I had no other way of navigating").  As a backup for my navigation, its not a necessary feature of the game.

Using realism as a reason for adding features in Armed Assault is usually a double-edged sword.

That said, the time it takes to load the map is kind of annoying.

[NeMeSiS 11]

In most cases you can't tell what direction you are flying in and have no choice but to look at the Map or Mini-map every 30 seconds. Then reload and crash into the ground, another plane, a tree, a building, or to DESKTOP.

Theres a button so you can see the compass without the map (k or something, check your settings)

[aus_twisted 0]

Check out the navigation section here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS

Also check Garmins website - http://garmin.com/

[Eda Mrcoch 0]

I know BAS had a display in there choppers that viewed the map and your rough position on it.

Mabey its also posible to make that into ArmA.

It should be even easier to implement since we have worldName command so addonmakers doesn't have to resort to (in ArmA defunct) object id hack.

Anyway, you can always use

in multiplayer .

[Jezza_NL 0]

I hate the map-view loading time as well. It makes me almost hesitant, or even afraid to use the map, especially under fire. Unlike in real life, most Arma/OFP gamers won't spend a day or so preparing for a mission, including commiting to memory the major landmarks of their AO.

We have to look on our maps a little more frequently then in real life. This goes especially for pilots, who do not have the navigational aids like GPS with waypoints on a screen right in front of them they would have in real life.

I hope in the near future this little problem will be fixed. For infantry it may be more realistic, but for pilots its a real issue.

[Cpt Viper 0]

It's not just for pilots, but for anyone.

I, myself, always play on Veteran mode online, for realism, with no GPS or whatever. I want to be able to quickly check the map, and not wait when I toggle back in game, what if hostiles spotted us ?

Then I might get killed without being able to do something.

I actually use the minimap in the time being, but the fact that you can't use your keyboard/mouse is annoying, but logical of course, since you're in a menu.

I still just think it's stupid that it happens. Why not make a minimap, like when you press espace, but not with the option menu ? Or an overlay ? Like the compass/watch in stead of the stupid reloading thing.

I just can't explain to you how much I'm annoyed by this, and I'm sure other people think the same as I do.

Some of you guys also claim it's more realistic, as in real life you also need to take the time to take out the map.

True, but in real life you can look up when you look at the map or drop the map in case something urgent (ie. enemies spotted) comes up !

- Viper

[d034rk 0]

Calling it a "realistic feature" is opportunism.

I'm also very unhappy with the current implementation. Why can't the textures'n'stuff be kept loaded in the background while displaying the map?

[aus_twisted 0]

Really makes no sense to me either why a 2D overlay map has to receive all this data again when closing it, all the data needed should be running in the background behind the overlay screen of the map. I'm thinking this is another problem coming from the XBOX version?

[Cpt Viper 0]

I hope not, but I do hope BIS is maybe working on this issue, or is planning to. It's extremely annoying.

- Viper

[bravo 6 0]

this also applys to mission editor.. it always need to load and receive every time we preview mission.

its boring too when we are building missions.

This delay kill some inspirations and ideas for missions.

BIS, hope you can improve this limitation.

[HeinBloed 0]

Since my ArmA crashed some hours ago i can switch from game to map to game without delay.

I don't see any change for the worse in gamplay, graphics or frames in regular singleplayer and multiplayer.

On the last campain mission you can see the "ingame" textures loading on the first loop switching from one character too the other.

Video (6MB)

[Left-Skid-Low 0]

Not saying I like doing this, but you are stuck using pilotage for now. Before you lift off, look at your map, choose several visual waypoints easily recognizable by air and try to get an accurate heading as possible to get there (maybe even write the way points down on a notepad). Nothing wrong with following roads or power lines to your destination either. Another thing that helps is a passenger on voice com to navigate you there.

Edit: For anybody interested, I have another method for long distance direct routes that involves using a compass heading. I drew a diagram on the map to show how I do it, pretty simple stuff, all you need is a straight edge.

[Dudester 0]

Sorry but after looking at some answers to the post. I have decided i am not going to stick a map on my leg, or use a straight edge to help me navigate. If thats what i needed then maybe the game should of come packed with these things.

Also when i start a multiplayer game i don't have the time to study land marks, or i would find the guys in my chopper saying somthing on the lines of "wtf don't you move your ass" and to be honest, by the time i studied the landmarks and all. I guess the game would be over by then in anycase.

I like this game but there are a few things that ruin it for me. This map change thing being one of them. The other things i hope can be ironed out.

I remember BIS looking at about a 100 or so players fighting it out in one battle on a sever. There was talk about netcode been able to handle this, yet so far most games i have connected to lagg with just 30 players or less (same as OFP if not worse). I also heard that nomatter how many units onscreen there was, that it wouldn't decrease FPS much. Erm am i missing somthing here because more units for me means alot less FPS.

I just hope all these annoying things will be fixed down the road soon. I played ofp for 4 years and my only bad word about it was cheats and the netcode been crap. I just hope all the bugs in AA can be fixed and will make me as happy as Ofp did.

[Left-Skid-Low 0]

I don't like doing it either Dudester, but at the current version its all we got. You can either have people saying "wtf are you waiting for take off!!!111!!" or "wtf you noob pilot where are you going, you are lost." I'd rather say "give me 30 seconds I'm figuring out how to get there." Of course knowing BF2 noobs, they probably wouldn't read it, then they would get out and shoot me through the window to steal it.

[Cpt Viper 0]

Left-Skid-Low,

You're probably right. Well, I usually play with more mature people. At least, I try to, and try to figure out what to do before we leave.

Anyway, we're having a LAN party in one week, and I wanted to build some missions for that, but because ArmA needs to load the map every -bloody- time you go back to the mission editor, and even when you don't change something, I gave up, too boring.

Please BIS, we beg you.

- Viper

[Jack-UK 0]

I agree with this issue, OFP was perfect with the map, we dont want a marker on the map where we are necessarily, but we need to be able to see the map and not have to bypass a loading screen to get back to our screen otherwise we'll end up in a flaming crater.

There should be a clear list of issues raised somewhere, Stickied and locked, and it should be edited regularly and updated with some popular issues, requests etc.

I dont know if this already exists somewhere im new to the forum.. But i think it might be useful... Then there will be no need for a spammage of threads and the developers can look at the list and see what are the issues which are being raised and to prioritise them. I'm sure they are very busy and therefore looking through the forums in a spammage of threads wont give them much more time...

[Dudester 0]

First of, plz change the compass text the Helicopter uses, to black, instead of the white text it currently uses now. If nothing can be done about the map load screen then at least we will know wich way we are flying, instead of the clouds blocking the white text.

[Cpt Viper 0]

Yeah, maybe we could put it on the BIS wiki, if it isn't already, as it is a real issue.

On the other hand, it's not exactly a bug. I think ?

- Viper

[frederf 0]

Loading all the vector data and having all the 3D data going at once might bring all our computers to a crawl. I don't have much of a problem with the map delay as infantry or any sort of ground vehicle. It is really only air vehicles (and complex armor, the Stryker and M1A1 sooo needs a color-map 3D rendered instrument with WGL-like moving markers that only show for suitable allied armor) where I feel strongly that better information to operator is required.

Unfortunately real life avionics are complex and ArmA cannot be expected to mimic them 100%. But I think that ArmA is very very able to make avionics that are useful and seem complex using existing functionality. Things like search radar and the separate rendering of the targeting camera displayed in 3D are things only the Halflife 2 engine claims to do well.

Real Life AH-1Z Cockpits (apologies for the small size)

In the AH-1Z, both the pilot and the weapons officer have the exact same instruments. An artificial horizon and a compass ring. This is silly, why does the gunner need an artificial horizon or any sort of navigational display? The pilot should have perhaps the artificial horizon and a compass+decluttered map display with towns and prominent terrain and such. The data is already there, just render a minimalistic set of the map .pbo data.

The gunner should have a weapon stores screen and some other pertinent display. I'm not sure what performance hit this would have to have a north-up or a track-up vector map display of data rendered in 3-D in the cockpit, but I think it's doable. It all comes down to how to render complex information to a 3D surface.

You could be able to have custom markers on this map-instrument. It would use the vehicle-chat layer of map markers and display them on your map-instrument. If one could have a game logic that latched onto the naming of these points (If it sees markers labeled "WP1, WP2, ..." then it will think these are watchpoints and add in connecting lines to aid navigation.)

(In case you didn't know, all map markers added during the game have a "channel" associated with them. So if you're in group-channel and add a marker, only people with access to group will be able to see it. If you place it while tuned to global channel, everyone can see it, even your enemies! Of course you could extend this to side channel functionality if you wanted ground-force/air-force coordination.

This would work OK for pre-planned navigation, fire support, and troop transport purposes for rotary aircraft. If you had a human copilot, then a lot of things could be done during flight without risk of crashing. If you had voice comms with him, he could easily "talk" you in, negating the "need" for a map.

As far as the Harrier goes, I can't imagine successfully responding to a need for an airstrike accurately using the current map. Firstly, you don't know your position (which a real AV-8B driver would IRL, thank you INS), you don't have your target displayed easily (if they gave a map grid reference, you'd have to squint and find it), and you don't know your course to the target.

In real life, you'd get data-linked up the coordinates and the spot on the ground would be a visible box or diamond overlaid on the ground as seen through your HUD. Now if a request for an airstrike did the following two things:

1. Placed a map marker on the map-instrument on the 3-D cockpit of the AV-8B pilot. This way the Harrier pilot could turn until the target was "up" on the map and drive toward it, seeing it's relation to other terrain and urban features.

2. Gave the pilot a floating yellow box a la "move order" over the target. (Ideally, the box would be green and be invisible unless within the confines of the HUD [done with alpha layers]. Also when the box lay outside the HUD, the HUD would show arrows or a tadpole indicator showing how to turn in order to get the box inside the HUD frame.)

Then doing a Harrier air support strike in aid of other forces would be doable. Whether or not targeting is done via laser designator or not at the target location is another matter.

=======================

I know I've asked for a lot and made both reasonable and fantasy requests, so I'll list when I think would be the best priority to pursue in order to aid the player:

1. Make a generic white or green on black background instrument that uses vector map data to give a track-up display, centered on the vehicle, with minimal information displayed (so it's readable while flying or driving). Implant this instrument into the proper helicopters (UH-60, AH-1, but not MH-6 for example), air planes (AV-8B), and the complex armor (M1A1, Stryker).

2. Allow map markers to be displayed on this map-instrument.

3. Allow the map scale to be adjusted (zoomed in/out)

4. Improve the HUD of the Harrier to be able to display map markers or move orders over the ground as a 3D "box target" when within the display. (Arrows to show how to turn to the target when the box is not in the display a plus.)

5. Make a WGL-like system where friendly complex equipment is shown interlinked on the map displays. Mostly for Strykers and M1A1s, but aircraft a plus as well.

6. Allow switching of map display complexity (dead simple -> more cluttered -> terrain color on/off)

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In related news, the compass tape should be altered visually to be easier to read. It often gets washed out against the background. Also you CANNOT reference your hand held compass while flying (not sure if you should be able to, but whoever suggested to use the hand held instead should be aware you can't).

As far as being too impatient to scope out your route before hand, that's a reason to be deserving of some of your troubles. There's little substitute for studying the map for 5 minutes before taking off. When flying a known route it's good to learn it before flying. The reason I support more map displays is because 1. RL pilots have it and 2. not all flying is going to be memorializable/static, the battlefield is often dynamic.

EDIT: http://www.bellhelicopter.textron.com/en....web.pdf (Informative PDF)