Artillery in Arma, how to use?

[Sc@tterbrain 0]

There are also strix rounds, SADARM and other terminal homing shells... and this makes me wrong how? I was referring to a shell with a HEAT warhead, following a ballistic arc to the (typically 100 yard) target area. Suffice it to say, HEAT rounds would be a waste of ammo. You're talking about some submunition delivery vehicles. Were you seeking to show off your incredible catalogue of artillery knowledge or did you just feel like you needed to try to one up someone? You're not even commenting on what I was talking about- I suppose that makes you TOTALLY wrong.

I AGREED with your original premise that 105mm's don't kill tanks in my last post.

I was just making fun of your post by pointing out the fact that anyone can spout-off military facts/data after a few mins and a google search.

And yet you do it again..and again do it badly.

The Bofors/Saab Strix, for example, is a 120mm dedicated anti-armor MORTAR round.

The SADARM is a submunition for use in 155mm and larger systems at this time, NOT the 105mm.

Give it a rest Jr! Nobody Cares!

[max power 21]

I AGREED with your original premise that 105mm's don't kill tanks in my last post.

I was just making fun of your post by pointing out the fact that anyone can spout-off military facts/data after a few mins and a google search.

And yet you do it again..and again do it badly.

The Bofors/Saab Strix, for example, is a 120mm dedicated anti-armor MORTAR round.

The SADARM is a submunition for use in 155mm and larger systems at this time, NOT the 105mm.

Give it a rest Jr! Nobody Cares!

I'd imagine that you're the only one who finds you funny, in that case. I was simply saying that artillery isn't typically equipped to deal with tanks because their fire is not accurate enough for it. Tanks and aircraft are better at it because they are more accurate. Giving an artillery battery HEAT shells would be wasteful. This is not knowledge that you need to look up on google. It's simple and conceptual. You're attacking my conceptual description with a laundry list of unrelated facts. I'm not quite sure why that is- I think it must be a personality trait that you have. Either way, you're putting a lot of restrictions on what I was saying that have nothing to do with what I was talking about. I specified 105mm because the screens look like 105mm guns, and because, perhaps, HE shells of a coastal defense calibre might be effective in destroying tanks- I don't know. At any rate, what you're talking about doesn't seem to be what I'm talking about. Thanks for delineating your point- that point being to mock me, but maybe there are better places for it? Kthnx.

[RittWitt 0]

I thought I'd shed a little light on the situation using some real-world experience. I'm an old OFP guy, and am loving ArmA as it is =) Anyway, my "real-world" experience is several years as a military EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) Tech; if you don't know about us, we are responsible for getting rid of all explosive hazards on the battlefield (UXOs, IEDs, etc.) and thus, receive a LOT of training on different types of munitions and their functions.

A HEAT (High-Explosive Anti-Tank) round comes in all shapes and sizes, and are almost always direct-fire weapons. The HEAT round uses the Monroe effect to focus an explosive shock-wave against armor - the so-called "shaped charge."

More information can be read up on here if anyone is interested - http://www.globalsecurity.org/militar....rge.htm

Basically, in order for a HEAT munition to be effective, it must have some amount of stand-off from the target when the charge detonates, or the wave will not have time to form, and the weapon will fail. This is why HEAT munitions are generally direct-fire only - they have to actually impact their target, not just hit near them. As far as HEAT from artillery, the only exception to the rule AFAIK is a cluster munition, for instance a 155mm projectile that dispenses several hundered tiny bomblets which employ HEAT charges to impact the target from above as they drift downward.

I continue to hear people discuss HEAT as an anti-personnel weapon when OFP/ArmA is concerned, and while this may be effective in the game, the blast radius of a tank's HEAT projectile is going to be relatively small, unless the round was specifically designed to also fragment its casing as an AP effect.

The other option for firing from a tank's main gun in OFP/ArmA is the sabot round, or APFSDS (Armor-Piercing Fin-Stabilized Discarding-Sabot). These weapons function purely on kinetic energy, and contain no explosive charge whatsoever. They are typically constructed of an ultra-dense material in order to penetrate as much armor as possible. The sabot does not actually set off any explosion inside a vehicle it strikes, it's effects are much more gruesome. If successful, a sabot round penetrates the tank entirely, entering one side and exiting the other. Due to the extreme velocity of these projectiles, this causes a rapid pressure change inside the vehicle and creates a vaccum inside the cabin. This, like a rapid decompression of an aircraft at high altitude, tends to suck everything possible (crew included) out the small (4-6 inches diameter) exit hole on the armor, thus killing crewmembers with both fragmentation from a spalling effect on the interior of the armor, the passing shockwave of the projectile, and the vaccum created inside the vehicle. It also tends to detonate fuel and other explosive components as they are violently strewn about the cabin and forced out as well.

I hope this information sheds some light on the subject, and I hope I haven't bored everyone to death with this bit of technical mumbo-jumbo. If anyone has more questions related to munitions, etc, feel free to send me a PM or ask me in the thread.

[scubaman3D 0]

Quote[/b] ]This method is limited by line of sight. If the artillery can't directly "see" the target, they won't fire.

Not true. The only one who has to see the units is the spotter if you´re talking about my template.

I could be wrong but when I tried moving the artillery pieces from your template farther away, out of direct line of sight of the target, they didn't fire. Maybe I messed something up without realizing it?

Also, I placed a static artillery piece right next to the others in the template mission but didn't group it with the forward observer and it did engage the convoy on its own.

[UNN 0]

Quote[/b] ]Not true. The only one who has to see the units is the spotter if you´re talking about my template.

The AI will not account for any obstruction between the gun and the target, like a hill.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]

The AI will not account for any obstruction between the gun and the target, like a hill.

Yes, this is an issue with Arma artillery though. FDF artillery had no problems in doing that with the same method.

Quote[/b] ]I could be wrong but when I tried moving the artillery pieces from your template farther away, out of direct line of sight of the target, they didn't fire. Maybe I messed something up without realizing it?

Arma artillery needs to have direct line of fire, while FDF artillery shoots really ballistic. It´s just an Arma limitation as it is now.

Quote[/b] ]Also, I placed a static artillery piece right next to the others in the template mission but didn't group it with the forward observer and it did engage the convoy on its own.

Remove all of the template units, including spotter and tell me if enemies are still fired upon when they are at their starting position.

One more: As written in readme engagement ranges will be different depending on what viewdistance you have set your Arma to. Higher viewdistance -> higher engagement range.

I used a viewdistance of 1000 when setting up template, so using different viewdistance can of course alter the result.

[UNN 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yes, this is an issue with Arma artillery though. FDF artillery had no problems in doing that with the same method.

I only ever looked at the Mortars that came with the FDF mod. They were designed to fire trajectories greater than 45 degrees only and used a low muzzle velocity. Perhaps something similar could be done with Arma artillery. Although, that method does reduce the potential range.

[scubaman3D 0]

Remove all of the template units, including spotter and tell me if enemies are still fired upon when they are at their starting position.

One more: As written in readme engagement ranges will be different depending on what viewdistance you have set your Arma to. Higher viewdistance -> higher engagement range.

I used a viewdistance of 1000 when setting up template, so using different viewdistance can of course alter the result.

Yeah, you're right - its the view distance. If I place myself as the gunner to the BMP2 in the convoy, the leader calls out contact on the arty pieces very quickly, so the engaging lone arty piece is probably just acting like a tank, who spots an enemy.

We then proceeded to flank the artillery position but they killed me before I could got a good shot at them

[Sc@tterbrain 0]

I AGREED with your original premise that 105mm's don't kill tanks in my last post.

I was just making fun of your post by pointing out the fact that anyone can spout-off military facts/data after a few mins and a google search.

And yet you do it again..and again do it badly.

The Bofors/Saab Strix, for example, is a 120mm dedicated anti-armor MORTAR round.

The SADARM is a submunition for use in 155mm and larger systems at this time, NOT the 105mm.

Give it a rest Jr!  Nobody Cares!  

I'd imagine that you're the only one who finds you funny, in that case.  I was simply saying that artillery isn't typically equipped to deal with tanks because their fire is not accurate enough for it.  Tanks and aircraft are better at it because they are more accurate.  Giving an artillery battery HEAT shells would be wasteful.  This is not knowledge that you need to look up on google.  It's simple and conceptual.  You're attacking my conceptual description with a laundry list of unrelated facts.  I'm not quite sure why that is- I think it must be a personality trait that you have.  Either way, you're putting a lot of restrictions on what I was saying that have nothing to do with what I was talking about.  I specified 105mm because the screens look like 105mm guns, and because, perhaps, HE shells of a coastal defense calibre might be effective in destroying tanks- I don't know.  At any rate, what you're talking about doesn't seem to be what I'm talking about.  Thanks for delineating your point- that point being to mock me, but maybe there are better places for it?  Kthnx.

If you really get this worked up and bent out of shape over a video game forum to the point of personal attacks then maybe you should do some self reflection.

Your the all-knowing genuis on military facts, you win, gold metal...heres a cookie.  

Do you feel better now?  Hopefully you can let it rest.

[Mobious 0]

You know I tried this sample arty map and called arty down on me 5 times.. Not once was I killed or injured.. Just pretty puffs of smoke all around.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]You know I tried this sample arty map and called arty down on me 5 times..

You´re talking about my template ?

Artillery only targets vehicles and you can´t call it, it is called by spotter based on his knowledge of enemies.

[Mobious 0]

No it was Mr. Murry's.. I just replayed it and realized hey there are enemy troops in here.. lol.. This version seemed to target men... If I rode by an enemy the arty fired with out me calling it...IMO.. I think the blast damage should be increased with this.. If a round lands 6 feet behind me while I am standing up I should be toast..

[Balschoiw 0]

I guess it has already been reported to buglist that artillery shells have a way to decent blast radius.

[max power 21]

Quote[/b] ]

Your the all-knowing genuis on military facts, you win, gold metal...heres a cookie.

Just a run-of-the-mill genius, actually. Thanks anyways though.

Any word on if there was a difference in artillery behaviour since the patch?

[Mr-Murray 0]

Hi all...

I posted a new post with downloads right here:

Artillery Support

Have fun

Mr-Murray