textures

[Zander 0]

Quote[/b] ]btw it's not necessary to use the normal mapping for all the addons. in the textures pics posted by Ian for example, the normal seems in fact a bump map. (i guess)

where did you see a bump map ?

first one is diffuse, second normal and last specular.

[Sennacherib 0]

used as a bump map.

[dm 9]

used as a bump map.

Since Normal Maps are a form of bump maps, then yes, I suppose this is true.

Would suggest people read up on Bump Mapping to prevent confusion.

(However, a "bump map" is greyscale, as it contains only height data, a "normal map" is full-coloured RGB map, as displayed in the example images)

It would be down to Suma (or another programmer) to confirm exactly how the map is used by the engine.

[Araon 0]

(However, a "bump map" is greyscale, as it contains only height data, a "normal map" is full-coloured RGB map, as displayed in the example images)

It would be down to Suma (or another programmer) to confirm exactly how the map is used by the engine.

Our normalmaps are used as normalmaps, but there is more ways of creating them. On some objects (mostly on soldiers) are normalmaps created from hi poly mesh, on other objects are normalmaps just generated from grayscale map handpainted in photoshop (for example is way faster draw dots on the texture than actually model 2000 rivets on blackhawk), and sometimes it's combination of those two (when you need to add button on the sleeve, is easier to paint it than model it).

So in short - yes, our normalmaps are real normalmaps, but in many cases they weren't created from hi poly model and theoretically plain bump map would do the same effect. But our engine doesn't have support for them.

[dm 9]

Thanks for the clarification Araon, just what I wanted to hear.

As for the way they're created - yeah, its "easy" to do a nice normal map for organic things, tools like z-brush are excellent for that. Man-made objects are usually easier to do manually, like you say, its easier to paint rivets than it is to model them.

[Sennacherib 0]

thx Araon, for these explanations;

[Zander 0]

no for the normal map, you put the image of a high polys model on a low poly model. but you can use a normal map as a bump map too.

ok i tried to have all the maps (specular, lighting, and normal) in a baked texture and that works.    

but yeah, if you can post a tut, that would be excellent.  

just understood what you did, you rendered diffuse, specular and normal in one map but what you have finally is a diffuse texture, arma engine needs a normal map with blue, red and green colors to create bump map and a grayscale texture for specular effect.

actually if you use this in game you will have no bump and no specular.

[Sennacherib 0]

yeah, i understood now . and how that will work for the old addons. i must do again the textures?

because to make the relief on the textures, i used only photoshop. that will work in Arma?

[dm 9]

You need to seperate all the parts out into different textures, as listed on the BIKI.

And yes, textures (even normal maps) generated in PS will work, there is no reason that all normal maps HAVE to be generated from a high poly reference model, no reason what so ever.

[Sennacherib 0]

ok, thx. that would have been so cool, if we could use the textures for ofp, without any modifications.that was just a dream

the addon folders will be huge with all these files.

[Ian Malcolm 0]

ok, thx. that would have been so cool, if we could use the textures for ofp, without any modifications.that was just a dream

the addon folders will be huge with all these files.

But you can do it of course. It's not necessary to have for each texture appropriate normalmap and specular map. It will only make thinks better looking.

[Sennacherib 0]

really, that save my life.

sorry to be so curious; I simply like to know, how the things are done

[xnodunitx 0]

Yeap,of course an addon without specuilar or normal mapping will look out of place if its next to another one with,or you could turn off normal maps ingame somehow and then it wouldn't make too much of a difference.

[dm 9]

Just to clarify - you can NOT (as far as I can see from the specs and Araon's post) combine normal, colour, specular and detail maps into one "baked" texture.

If you want normal maps, you have to make a seperate _NO texture, if you want detail maps you have to make a seperate _DT texture.

Sure it means the texture size of addons will be larger, but we were heading that way with larger texture sizes for OFP anyway.

[Sennacherib 0]

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207....MG]

this is my first attempt. i used te nvidia plugin for photoshop. but when i watch the model. the depth is not really good. is it possible to have different depth size?

[metalchris 0]

If you bake the texture , it will lose its dynamics. thats the whole point of normal and specular maps. i used baked textures for OFP all the time , but in ArmA it just does not make sense. Normalmaps are not very demanding , but use use up Graphiccard Memory. That is why you should decrease your total number of textures.

[Sennacherib 0]

yeah i know, i use also, baked textures for ofp. the normal map is not baked. i just put it in the bump (normal) slot. gasp, too difficult.

[Zander 0]

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207....MG]

this is my first attempt. i used te nvidia plugin for photoshop. but when i watch the model. the depth is not really good. is it possible to have different depth size?

white for negative Z and black for poistive Z, between white and black you have a grayscale range you can use to define the deth.

in your normal map filter menu you can change the deth too, defaut is 2 (relative multiplier).

if you dont want to use grayscale for deth, make several part of your texture, apply different deth values for each with normal filter then merge all part in one texture.

[norsu 180]

http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=483

Yes it's for Doom 3, but the idea is still same http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif' alt='wink_o.gif'>.

[max power 21]

A little on normal maps.

Normal mapping is fairly complex because you're looking at everything along 3 planes as opposed to one with bump mapping.

What I mean by that is, a bump map is a height map. Lightness correlates to height... the lighter something is, the higher it is considered on the surface of the model.

Normal maps use the red / green / blue channels as x (horizontal) / y (vertical) / z (depth) vector information. For example, the more red a pixel is, the more positive x it positions the normal for that pixel. If you take a normal map in a graphics editting program, and check out the rgb channels, you'll see what I mean. When you view those channels, each one is represented in black and white. The more white on the red channel, the more red is depicted in the final product. From there, the graphics engine takes that information and uses it as surface normal information. The red channel, then sort of acts as a conventional bump map, only instead of simple height information, it gives you more detailed vector information. Since each pixel can be a mixture of red, green and blue, each pixel presents some information on each of those planes.

If you take this image into photoshop, and view its colour channels, I believe you'll find face portion on the red channel can best be described as two heads facing each other, while the blue channel could be best described as a single face looking out (at least to me). This is because what you are looking at is information relative to those vectors.

[Sennacherib 0]

yeah, i know this tutorial. but in fact i didn't make the same thing. first i made a bump map, and changed it into a normal map with the nvidia plugin.

this is 2 different ways to use the normal mapping.

@Zander, thx for the tips. (i can't find tuts for the noobs on the net )

@ Norsu, i will ckeck that thx

that would be great if finally this poor topic could help the addon makers.

[Messiah 2]

http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=483

Yes it's for Doom 3, but the idea is still same http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif' alt='wink_o.gif'>.

brilliant link - cheers for that. Does anyone have links on specular?

and can anyone supply a credible link for the photoshop normal map plugin? Just worried I'll download the wrong one/type.

[Sennacherib 0]

hooly crap, thx Norsu this tut is amazing

@Messiah, the first link: http://www.bencloward.com/tutorials_normal_maps8.shtml

[Messiah 2]

thanks D@nte

[Messiah 2]

ok, so to make sure i've got my head around this:

You have the normal texture file, like in OFP which defines the actual texture/colour etc - Diffuse Map.

You then have a corresponding Normal Map that uses the same uv co-ords as the diffuse map, but this dictates apparent height - bump maps - using RGB which you create using the normal map plugin from nvidia for PS.

Specular map again uses the same UV co-ords, and uses grescale to dictate shinyness of surface. White is shiny areas, black is matt.

If that somewhere near correct?